Independent Baptists in Australia?

[Binaca Chugger]

If they required the use of a different version for teaching, would it still be controlling?  Is it the concept, or the version with which you have a problem?

Both!!!

It seems as though you are carrying grief from a great hurt in your past and are now only able to see the world through the lenses of hurt.

I agree that many MOGs are manipulative and we can help warn others of their typical tactics.  However, asking all the teachers to use the same version in their lesson is not manipulation.  Please allow a church to be a church.  Allow the music, readings,  fellowship and teachings to influence you.  God instituted the church as a tool to help us in our path of sanctification to fulfill our purpose on this earth - loving God and loving others.  Influencing you is the purpose of the church.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

However I do believe that they expect a leader of any of their ministries will only teach from the KJV, ie. Sunday School teachers, bible study leaders, etc. I haven't participated in any of these groups yet. If it happens that they demand people participating in these groups must also only use a KJV then yes I would find that controlling.

Yes. The requirement of all teaching in a church to be from the KJV is typically accompanied by the explanation... "We don't want confusion" and/or "We just want consistency." Manipulation.

I can understand if the pastor uses one version, consistently, as a preferred text... but requiring all teachers to use the same, violates soul liberty.

It is politics. Learned behavior from a Bible college. Before the KJVO popularity in IFB churches in the 1970s, you never heard of this kind of requirement with those kinds of manipulative statements.

People are neither confused nor need consistency of a particular version in a church.

I disagree.

We are attending a church where several versions are used.  It is annoying.  My kids (tweens and teens) don't bother bringing their Bible, because they can't follow whatever the text comes from this week.  Confusion.  This promotes a lack of reliance upon Scripture.  I would so much rather pick a version and stick with it.  Instead, we are stuck rifling through different versions on an ipad, hoping to figure out where that thought came from.

I also have taught 2 years in a school that allowed multiple versions.  It takes a special teacher to do this.  Time must be taken to have several kids read from several versions and then explain the majority thought.  The average children's worker could not do this.  It is confusing and does not help with Scripture recalll.

 

[FSSL]

The beauty of multiple versions is that kids understand what the Bible means.

At my ordination, a pastor made the suggestion that my position creates confusion. One of my younger teens shook her head at his statement.

A proper delivery of preaching involves giving the multiple senses of the original words. I just did that very thing tonight... http://www.freesundayschoollessons.org/biblical-theology/proverbs-29-25-when-people-seem-bigger-than-god/

 

[Binaca Chugger]

The beauty of multiple versions is that kids understand what the Bible means.

At my ordination, a pastor made the suggestion that my position creates confusion. One of my younger teens shook her head at his statement.

A proper delivery of preaching involves giving the multiple senses of the original words. I just did that very thing tonight... http://www.freesundayschoollessons.org/biblical-theology/proverbs-29-25-when-people-seem-bigger-than-god/

Not in my experience.  In fact,  the student who used The Message typically had more questions about what it meant than the students with the KJV.  Questions are commonly asked about why one version stated one thing, if it really meant something else.  Scripture recall for coversation and apologetics was lacking because the mind does not recognize the various formations of Scripture as being the same passage.  Confusion.

Your lesson is a well reasoned topical discussion on fear.  I am not sure why you would use that link to explain the use of multiple versions.  I felt it was a nice logical approach to fear, with a frw verses to back it up, but was lacking in the power of Scripture.  A typical fundy lesson from a non-fundy.  Odd, but nice.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I have to admit, while I was studying the Bible in both NIV and NKJV for a long time, I started getting confused about which I remembered.  I'd try to find a verse in the NIV that I actually remembered from the NKJV (or vice versa). 

But in the long run, it was very beneficial, IMO.  It has been especially helpful in Bible studies where I had a question about a verse, and someone else's translation clarified what I was wondering about. 

 

[FSSL]

The beauty of multiple versions is that kids understand what the Bible means.

At my ordination, a pastor made the suggestion that my position creates confusion. One of my younger teens shook her head at his statement.

A proper delivery of preaching involves giving the multiple senses of the original words. I just did that very thing tonight... http://www.freesundayschoollessons.org/biblical-theology/proverbs-29-25-when-people-seem-bigger-than-god/

Not in my experience.  In fact,  the student who used The Message typically had more questions about what it meant than the students with the KJV.  Questions are commonly asked about why one version stated one thing, if it really meant something else.  Scripture recall for coversation and apologetics was lacking because the mind does not recognize the various formations of Scripture as being the same passage.  Confusion.

Your lesson is a well reasoned topical discussion on fear.  I am not sure why you would use that link to explain the use of multiple versions.  I felt it was a nice logical approach to fear, with a frw verses to back it up, but was lacking in the power of Scripture.  A typical fundy lesson from a non-fundy.  Odd, but nice.

It was an expository lesson on one verse. Fundies do not know what expositional sermons look like. There is no need to run to Strongs and paste verse after verse to make it "appear to be biblical." This lesson is word-by-word approach of one verse. Fundies don't do that.

This lesson uses multiple translations without mentioning it. The first point.. what is fear shows many different meaning possibilities. The second point looks at the "proves to be a snare" phrase from two different versions without getting into this version says this, that one says that.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

The beauty of multiple versions is that kids understand what the Bible means.

At my ordination, a pastor made the suggestion that my position creates confusion. One of my younger teens shook her head at his statement.

A proper delivery of preaching involves giving the multiple senses of the original words. I just did that very thing tonight... http://www.freesundayschoollessons.org/biblical-theology/proverbs-29-25-when-people-seem-bigger-than-god/

Not in my experience.  In fact,  the student who used The Message typically had more questions about what it meant than the students with the KJV.  Questions are commonly asked about why one version stated one thing, if it really meant something else.  Scripture recall for coversation and apologetics was lacking because the mind does not recognize the various formations of Scripture as being the same passage.  Confusion.

Your lesson is a well reasoned topical discussion on fear.  I am not sure why you would use that link to explain the use of multiple versions.  I felt it was a nice logical approach to fear, with a frw verses to back it up, but was lacking in the power of Scripture.  A typical fundy lesson from a non-fundy.  Odd, but nice.

It was an expository lesson on one verse. Fundies do not know what expositional sermons look like. There is no need to run to Strongs and paste verse after verse to make it "appear to be biblical." This lesson is word-by-word approach of one verse. Fundies don't do that.

This lesson uses multiple translations without mentioning it. The first point.. what is fear shows many different meaning possibilities. The second point looks at the "proves to be a snare" phrase from two different versions without getting into this version says this, that one says that.

Which puts the emphasis on trusting the teacher and the lesson instead of the Scripture.  I would much rather have a version that everyone is using so that we can ask the student to let the Scripture speak for itself.

 

[FSSL]

Malarkey. What approach treats the text better? Running all over Scripture finding verses in Strongs or digging into the meanings of the words of a particular verse?

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I have to admit, while I was studying the Bible in both NIV and NKJV for a long time, I started getting confused about which I remembered.  I'd try to find a verse in the NIV that I actually remembered from the NKJV (or vice versa). 

But in the long run, it was very beneficial, IMO.  It has been especially helpful in Bible studies where I had a question about a verse, and someone else's translation clarified what I was wondering about.

Which is exactly my point.  Multiple versions in the classroom or small group is confusing for people who are beginning their understanding of Scripture.  The student begins to question within themself what the Bible really said.  This promotes a reliance upon what the teacher or preacher told me instead of what the Scriptures state.  The end result is young Christians believing a lesson or speaker instead of the Bible.

If you want to use multiple commentaries or versions in a study for yourself, or maybe with mature Christians to expound a point, whatever.  Your opinion on the accuracy of thise versions and commentaries will be used to make that decision. 

However, I have seen for myself and do believe that using a multitude of versions in a church for corporate study does promote confusion and a lack of emphasis on Scripture.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

To the OP:

No, asking teachers to all use the same version does not, by itself, make the pastor a controlling, manipulative MOG.

Many people on this forum associate a preference for the KJV with past hurts in their life.  The KJV was not the problem, the pride of leadership was the problem.  I would encourage you to not be nervous about the version used.  The KJV is a good translation.  I would be more concerned with guilt trips,  self-promotion and empire-building in the church.  I would become concerned when the challenge to use the Scripture to discover the truth being presented is lo longer given.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Malarkey. What approach treats the text better? Running all over Scripture finding verses in Strongs or digging into the meanings of the words of a particular verse?

Why not give the exact same lesson, only using one version that every one can see?  Then, the student sees the truth for themself in the Scripture that they take with them rather than just in your lesson.  AND, the next time a speaker reads that same passage, the lesson is triggered in their mind so that they can build and deepen thair understanding of that Scripture.  The multiple version method does not promote memory recall of the verse, but the lesson.  I would rather Scripture be paramount over my assemblance of study tools.

 

[praise_yeshua]

If they required the use of a different version for teaching, would it still be controlling?  Is it the concept, or the version with which you have a problem?

Both!!!

It seems as though you are carrying grief from a great hurt in your past and are now only able to see the world through the lenses of hurt.

I agree that many MOGs are manipulative and we can help warn others of their typical tactics.  However, asking all the teachers to use the same version in their lesson is not manipulation.  Please allow a church to be a church.  Allow the music, readings,  fellowship and teachings to influence you.  God instituted the church as a tool to help us in our path of sanctification to fulfill our purpose on this earth - loving God and loving others.  Influencing you is the purpose of the church.

You know. I really grow tired of the old.... "you must be hurt" defense!!!! You're being entirely dishonest. WHY are you acting as if you know me and you know my "pain" is affecting my judgement and beliefs?

You don't know me. Don't pretend you do.

Yes. Asking all the teachers to use the same version in a lesson is MANIPULATION!!!!

I have nothing against influence. This type of influence is WRONG!!!!

For the record. I generally carry a KJV bible with me. However, I do have bible apps on various devices I carry and can easily reference just about any translation ANYONE might want to reference. Its not hard. Its called using technology for GOOD!!!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

The beauty of multiple versions is that kids understand what the Bible means.

At my ordination, a pastor made the suggestion that my position creates confusion. One of my younger teens shook her head at his statement.

A proper delivery of preaching involves giving the multiple senses of the original words. I just did that very thing tonight... http://www.freesundayschoollessons.org/biblical-theology/proverbs-29-25-when-people-seem-bigger-than-god/

Not in my experience.  In fact,  the student who used The Message typically had more questions about what it meant than the students with the KJV.  Questions are commonly asked about why one version stated one thing, if it really meant something else.  Scripture recall for coversation and apologetics was lacking because the mind does not recognize the various formations of Scripture as being the same passage.  Confusion.

Your lesson is a well reasoned topical discussion on fear.  I am not sure why you would use that link to explain the use of multiple versions.  I felt it was a nice logical approach to fear, with a frw verses to back it up, but was lacking in the power of Scripture.  A typical fundy lesson from a non-fundy.  Odd, but nice.

It was an expository lesson on one verse. Fundies do not know what expositional sermons look like. There is no need to run to Strongs and paste verse after verse to make it "appear to be biblical." This lesson is word-by-word approach of one verse. Fundies don't do that.

This lesson uses multiple translations without mentioning it. The first point.. what is fear shows many different meaning possibilities. The second point looks at the "proves to be a snare" phrase from two different versions without getting into this version says this, that one says that.

Which puts the emphasis on trusting the teacher and the lesson instead of the Scripture.  I would much rather have a version that everyone is using so that we can ask the student to let the Scripture speak for itself.

IF that VERSION is WRONG.... they learn a LIE? You don't trust any teacher. You trust the Scriptures themselves..... and the KJV gets it wrong in MANY areas. MANY!!!

What's more important to you?

That people learn a lie from a bad translation or people get a consistent message? Being consistently WRONG... DESTROYS people. Paul talked of how the Jew has a zeal for GOD but it wasn't according to KNOWLEDGE.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I have to admit, while I was studying the Bible in both NIV and NKJV for a long time, I started getting confused about which I remembered.  I'd try to find a verse in the NIV that I actually remembered from the NKJV (or vice versa). 

But in the long run, it was very beneficial, IMO.  It has been especially helpful in Bible studies where I had a question about a verse, and someone else's translation clarified what I was wondering about.

Which is exactly my point.  Multiple versions in the classroom or small group is confusing for people who are beginning their understanding of Scripture.  The student begins to question within themself what the Bible really said.  This promotes a reliance upon what the teacher or preacher told me instead of what the Scriptures state.  The end result is young Christians believing a lesson or speaker instead of the Bible.

If you want to use multiple commentaries or versions in a study for yourself, or maybe with mature Christians to expound a point, whatever.  Your opinion on the accuracy of thise versions and commentaries will be used to make that decision. 

However, I have seen for myself and do believe that using a multitude of versions in a church for corporate study does promote confusion and a lack of emphasis on Scripture.

Non sense. It makes people study. If people seem confused..... there is a simple solution.... Do some RESEARCH YOURSELF!!!!

Quit relying on what someone else is telling you. Even those who TRANSLATED the Scriptures into your own language. DON'T... .blindly trust them for the sake of having "UNITY" in a LIE.

Ever heard of those who lived at Berea? What does the Scriptures say about them?

 

[prophet]

Ye shall be as gods.

 

[FSSL]

Malarkey. What approach treats the text better? Running all over Scripture finding verses in Strongs or digging into the meanings of the words of a particular verse?

Why not give the exact same lesson, only using one version that every one can see?  Then, the student sees the truth for themself in the Scripture that they take with them rather than just in your lesson.  AND, the next time a speaker reads that same passage, the lesson is triggered in their mind so that they can build and deepen thair understanding of that Scripture.  The multiple version method does not promote memory recall of the verse, but the lesson.  I would rather Scripture be paramount over my assemblance of study tools.

I used the NIV as the basis of this lesson. I even wrote the verse on the board and circled words.

You don't get it. Scripture is KING when you exposit it word-by-word. Even the NIV did not make it clear what "prove." It is better than the KJVs "bringeth." The Hebrew is clear. Did I need to read the Hebrew Bible to the teens?

The memory recall thing does not overthrow a proper understanding of the verse. There are many AWANA kids out there today who can cite Ephesians 2.8-9 and have no understanding of what it actually means.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Ye shall be as gods.

Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

 

[prophet]

Ye shall be as gods.

Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

Nope, and Yup.

Haklo

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Why not give the exact same lesson, only using one version that every one can see?  Then, the student sees the truth for themself in the Scripture that they take with them rather than just in your lesson. 

Abstain from all appearance of evil.

We all know this verse is often taught wrong.  With alternate translations, people can find out it doesn't mean what the pastor says it means.  Using only one version doesn't let the student see for himself/herself the truth in the Scripture.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

You know. I really grow tired of the old.... "you must be hurt" defense!!!! You're being entirely dishonest. WHY are you acting as if you know me and you know my "pain" is affecting my judgement and beliefs?

You don't know me. Don't pretend you do.

Okay.

It does seem to me that any mention of anything somewhat related to an IFB brings out a screaming (all caps), random rant which spews forth vitriol.  But, if you say you are all okay, okay.