Interesting reformed church visit today, a report card.

biscuit1953 said:
When Jesus paid the price for sin, it satisfied the Father, not for our sins only, but also for the sins of the whole world (2 John 2:2).
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So does the Father's wrath still abide on sinners (Rom. 1:18)? If so, why, since Jesus paid the price of sin and satisfied the Father?
 
Ransom said:
So does the Father's wrath still abide on sinners (Rom. 1:18)? If so, why, since Jesus paid the price of sin and satisfied the Father?
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John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Luke 13:2 And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way?
Luke 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
John 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
John 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

There is no reason to reject the clear reading of 2 Peter 2:1 and assume it doesn’t mean what it says. Men and women go to hell because they refuse the free gift of salvation that was paid for on the cross.
 
biscuit1953 said:
There is no reason to reject the clear reading of 2 Peter 2:1 and assume it doesn’t mean what it says. Men and women go to hell because they refuse the free gift of salvation that was paid for on the cross.
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You only begged the question, you didn't answer it.
 
Ransom said:
You only begged the question, you didn't answer it.
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You didn't like the answer.

What are the main arguments against limited atonement?​

Repentance and faith were the required responses (see Matthew 21:32). If Christ’s death did not provide atonement for everyone, then the apostles, and even Jesus Himself, were offering something that most of their audiences could never receive.

Limited atonement is the point of traditional Calvinism that has caused the most confusion and consternation among Bible-believing theologians. Will only the elect be saved? Yes. However, Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient to pay for all sin, and the offer of salvation is universal. Our invitation for others to accept Christ should echo the Spirit’s call in Revelation 22:17: “‘Come!’ Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.”

www.gotquestions.org

What are the main arguments against limited atonement? | GotQuestions.org

What are the main arguments against limited atonement? What are the biblical, historical, theological, and practical reasons for rejecting limited atonement?
www.gotquestions.org

We can disagree without being disagreeable.
 
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Ransom said:
I don't like answers that fail to answer my questions, specifically, why the Father would still have wrath for sinners (Rom. 1:18) whose sins the Son has propitiated (1 John 2:2).
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I don’t like answers that takes clear verses and assume they don’t mean what they say in order to fill in an acronym.
 
biscuit1953 said:
I don’t like answers that takes clear verses and assume they don’t mean what they say in order to fill in an acronym.
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Since I said nothing about that, what you don't like is answering questions someone else asked.
 
Ransom said:
Same argument, really. Are some chords more God-honoring than others?
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Some Christians can’t tell the difference between growling sounds mixed in with dissonant chords along with mind numbing meaningless repetitions, and Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Alayman hit the nail on the head when he referred to it as “an exercise in cognitive dissonance.” Mackenzie Morgan who is a worship leader at a Presbyterian church, goes into the history of church music.

“The modern seeker sensitive or seeker friendly church movement was primarily pioneered in the 1980s by Bill Hybels, founding pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in Illinois. The movement gained massive traction through the mega church phenomenon championed by Hybels alongside Rick Warren, founder of the Saddleback Valley Community Church. Its earliest forerunner in the 1960s was Robert Schuler, founder of the Crystal Cathedral. The core strategy involved structuring worship services and environments to specifically appeal to unchurched non-Christian seekers utilizing a marketing focused approach with a practical non-confrontational preaching and engaging performances. The monkeys would rather die than to give up the circus because the circus is built for the monkeys. The circus is built to entertain and what you lead people with in the end is the same measures and things that you have to do to keep them there. As Charles Spurgeon once said, "If you have to give a carnival to get people to come to church, then you will have to keep giving carnivals to keep them coming back."

 
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biscuit1953 said:
Some Christians can’t tell the difference between growling sounds mixed in with dissonant chords along with mind numbing meaningless repetitions, and Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Alayman hit the nail on the head when he referred to it as “an exercise in cognitive dissonance.” Mackenzie Morgan who is a worship leader at a Presbyterian church, goes into the history of church music.
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That's quite the essay to avoid saying whether some chords are more God-honouring than others.
 
Which C chord is most holy:

C major: C,E,G
C minor: C, Eb, G
C7: C,E,G,Bb
Cm7: C,Eb,G,Bb
Cmaj7: C,E,G,B
C°(diminished): C, Eb,Gb
C+(augmented): C,E,G#
 
Ransom said:
That's quite the essay to avoid saying whether some chords are more God-honouring than others.
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Growling “Down, down, down” 36 times in a row like a wild animal and you think I was trying to make it sound stupid. How on God’s green earth could it not sound stupid? There is no difference in these college students growling like a pig and the growling sounds in “Loner.” It sounds more like a nightmare of someone going down to hell than anything spiritual.

 
abcaines said:
Which C chord is most holy:

C major: C,E,G
C minor: C, Eb, G
C7: C,E,G,Bb
Cm7: C,Eb,G,Bb
Cmaj7: C,E,G,B
C°(diminished): C, Eb,Gb
C+(augmented): C,E,G#
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Chords don’t provide meaning without composition and intent of the composer. When that process happens it enters the realm of morality, as subjective as that may be in making a determination about the nature of the composition.
 
biscuit1953 said:
Growling “Down, down, down” 36 times in a row like a wild animal and you think I was trying to make it sound stupid.
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You were trying to make it sound stupid. You emphasized the repeated lyrics more than the song itself does. That was disingenuous.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Chords don’t provide meaning without composition and intent of the composer. When that process happens it enters the realm of morality, as subjective as that may be in maki a determination about the nature of the composition.
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Can you take a song (of your choosing) and interpret its morality for us through the chord sequence?
 
Ransom said:
You were trying to make it sound stupid. You emphasized the repeated lyrics more than the song itself does. That was disingenuous.
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You are lying. Look up the lyrics.

Lyrics of Loner by Enoch​

They′re gonna beat you like a dog to the ground;
Down down down
But you will take it like a man as it comes,
in My strength, you'll stand.
Like the Master, so the heir;
mocked - beat - killed.
But just like Him, you will stand firm;
in death, you′ll rise.
You say you care for nothing but
you care what they say.
Just be you, be you, be you, be who you are
despite what they say.
Just be you, be you, be you, be who you are
despite what they say.
Down down down
Down down down
Down down down
You save
Down down down
Down down down
Down down down
You save
Down down down
Down down down
Down down down
You save
Down down down
Down down down
Down down down
You save
www.musixmatch.com

Enoch - Loner lyrics | Musixmatch

Lyrics for Loner by Enoch.
www.musixmatch.com www.musixmatch.com
 
Ransom said:
Can you take a song (of your choosing) and interpret its morality for us through the chord sequence?
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Much to my shame and admitted ignorance, I don’t have a clue about reading notes, chords, or arrangements. My argument is about the inability to discern authorial meaning or intent. I think the passage that biscuit referred to earlier from Corinthians about an “uncertain sound” carries weight towards that end.
 
biscuit1953 said:
You are lying. Look up the lyrics.
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I'm not lying. You didn't quote the majority of the first half.

biscuit1953 said:
They're gonna beat you like a dog to the ground;
Down down down

Just be you, be you, be you, be who you are
despite what they say.

Just be you, be you, be you, be who you are
despite what they say.

Down down down
Down down down
Down down down
You save

Down down down
Down down down
Down down down
You save

Down down down
Down down down
Down down down
You save

Down down down
Down down down
Down down down
You save
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