Is God a Moral Monster?

voicecrying

voicecrying

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I just finished reading "Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the Old Testament God" by Paul Copan.

He addresses many common complaints/objections about Christianity and the common misunderstanding of God in the Old Testament. He addresses topics such as misogyny, ethnic cleansing, child abuse, slavery, human trafficking, and violence as a result of religion. He brings to light things from the Near Eastern culture and archaeological evidence.

If you ever have had conversations with someone who accuses God in the OT was a big bully, this book can be a great resource when dealing with those common misunderstandings.

I have to admit, I never had a good answer as to why Israel was given commands to kill everyone - men, women & children - at various times. This book gives a clear and simple explanation.
 
From the point of view of fallen man, I'd say, Yes. As the Streetwise Bible says it, ' You shouldn't diss the Almighty's name, using it in cuss words or rapping with one another. It ain't cool and payback's a monster.'
 
Ekklesian said:
From the point of view of fallen man
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It all hinges on perspective, doesn't it?

Not a one of us who isn't fallen. I find it ironic how a fallen creature thinks he can impugn the Creator as morally deficient.
 
voicecrying said:
I just finished reading "Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the Old Testament God" by Paul Copan.

He addresses many common complaints/objections about Christianity and the common misunderstanding of God in the Old Testament. He addresses topics such as misogyny, ethnic cleansing, child abuse, slavery, human trafficking, and violence as a result of religion. He brings to light things from the Near Eastern culture and archaeological evidence.

If you ever have had conversations with someone who accuses God in the OT was a big bully, this book can be a great resource when dealing with those common misunderstandings.

I have to admit, I never had a good answer as to why Israel was given commands to kill everyone - men, women & children - at various times. This book gives a clear and simple explanation.
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I'm keenly interested in apologetics, and might buy this. I am however, very curious as to how frequently the rabid atheist making the case that the God of the OT is cruel for ordering the destruction of other ethnic groups is actually ever convinced and converted by sound/reasonable ethical arguments, like those in this book?
 
ALAYMAN said:
I'm keenly interested in apologetics, and might buy this. I am however, very curious as to how frequently the rabid atheist making the case that the God of the OT is cruel for ordering the destruction of other ethnic groups is actually ever convinced and converted by sound/reasonable ethical arguments, like those in this book?
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I think we both know that such arguments are nothing but a smokescreen. Apologetics is only for the one who is honestly seeking. Yes, it's great to be able to answer these questions if for no other reason it serves to bolster our own faith. But trying to answer the one whose heart is already so hard or their eyes so blind that they would have a mind to impugn a Creator they refuse to believe in is nothing more than casting pearls before swine.

At best, they're thinking they can justify their position by pointing out the hypocrisy of ours. However, in doing so, they reveal how bankrupt their thinking is.
 
abcaines said:
I think we both know that such arguments are nothing but a smokescreen. Apologetics is only for the one who is honestly seeking. Yes, it's great to be able to answer these questions if for no other reason it serves to bolster our own faith. But trying to answer the one whose heart is already so hard or their eyes so blind that they would have a mind to impugn a Creator they refuse to believe in is nothing more than casting pearls before swine.
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I don't wanna dig too deep here, but it comes down to the essence of presuppositionalism IMNSHO. I think that you are right in assessing the average skeptic who trots out those kind of arguments as one who is not "seeking", but, I also think that you can't judge EVERY case under that absolute assumption.
 
ALAYMAN said:
I don't wanna dig too deep here, but it comes down to the essence of presuppositionalism IMNSHO. I think that you are right in assessing the average skeptic who trots out those kind of arguments as one who is not "seeking", but, I also think that you can't judge EVERY case under that absolute assumption.
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Absolutely. We should be prepared at all times to give an answer to those who ask a reason for the hope that is within us. When these opportunities come up, there is a faint glimmer of hope that I can say something that will set them to thinking and the Holy Spirit will use my answers as a seed sown. However, I'm sure we've been there, the smokescreen often comes from someone we know to be purposely antagonistic. I'll be the first to admit I often find myself to be quite jaded by the antagonists.
 
abcaines said:
Absolutely. We should be prepared at all times to give an answer to those who ask a reason for the hope that is within us. When these opportunities come up, there is a faint glimmer of hope that I can say something that will set them to thinking and the Holy Spirit will use my answers as a seed sown. However, I'm sure we've been there, the smokescreen often comes from someone we know to be purposely antagonistic. I'll be the first to admit I often find myself to be quite jaded by the antagonists.
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Beautifully said.

The double edged-sword is that we don't know who will be saved and exactly how, so we have to use wisdom and discernment (as you noted, not casting pearls). That kind of discretion shouldn't be rooted in general cynicism, but led of the Spirit on a case by case basis, grounded in evangelistic love for the lost and damned soul of the one who will face the Great White Throne one day.
 
voicecrying said:
I just finished reading "Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the Old Testament God" by Paul Copan.

He addresses many common complaints/objections about Christianity and the common misunderstanding of God in the Old Testament. He addresses topics such as misogyny, ethnic cleansing, child abuse, slavery, human trafficking, and violence as a result of religion. He brings to light things from the Near Eastern culture and archaeological evidence.

If you ever have had conversations with someone who accuses God in the OT was a big bully, this book can be a great resource when dealing with those common misunderstandings.

I have to admit, I never had a good answer as to why Israel was given commands to kill everyone - men, women & children - at various times. This book gives a clear and simple explanation.
Click to expand...

.
What is that simple explanation? What is the author's answer as to why the god of Israel is not a "moral monster"?
I'd be interested to know.
.
 
Gringo said:
.
What is that simple explanation? What is the author's answer as to why the god of Israel is not a "moral monster"?
I'd be interested to know.
.
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The simple answer is that the command to utterly destroy men, women, & children was military hyperbole common to that culture - similar to the hyperbolic language used today when the sports page reports that one team annihilated another. Archaeological findings from Jericho, Ai, etc. is that those were military bases and when the Israelites conquered them, it was just the military that was utterly destroyed. Closer reading of the OT shows that the OT says the Israelites obeyed the commands (usually - there were times they did not obey) yet later we read about Canaanites, Hittites, etc. still alive.
 
When a tornado or earthquake takes the lives of “innocent” children is God responsible for taking their lives?
 
It is therefore completely misleading to characterize God’s command to Israel as a command to commit genocide. Rather it was first and foremost a command to drive the tribes out of the land and to occupy it. Only those who remained behind were to be utterly exterminated. There may have been no non-combatants killed at all. That makes sense of why there is no record of the killing of women and children, such as I had vividly imagined. Such scenes may have never taken place, since it was the soldiers who remained to fight. It is also why there were plenty of Canaanite people around after the conquest of the land, as the biblical record attests.
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The slaughter of the Canaanites re-visited
 
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