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Which goes to the purpose for the promise(in the material sense), rest from Israel’s enemies. When the fervent heat burns earth there won’t be need for protection/isolation anymore.
Israel Is Not Israel
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So it's timing, meaning that it is not an 'everlasting' covenant in the sense generally taken. But I'd like to point out that if you're premillennial, even that rest comes to an end prior to the end of the world.
Now that we know we agree that the promises, as far as any worldly fulfillment is concerned, were temporal, would you agree with the Apostle that Abraham obtained it? In other words, the promise has been fulfilled? Hebrews 6:15
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Abraham did receive the promise, and the book of Hebrews points to the fact that his (and all who are in Christ the great high priest) perseverance was due to the faithfulness and reliability of God. But that promise included many things in the covenant. It is very clear that the promise of making a great nation is still ongoing. It is also clear that you make the claim the promises were (past tense) fulfilled, whereas others believe that though some of those promises are temporal they are still incomplete, and will someday be fulfilled when the Jews return to the land and repent unto the Messiah that has already fulfilled the prophesies of the suffering servant on their behalf.
Agreed.
Agreed, but I would say the ongoing is by the engrafting of the wild branches, and by the re-engrafting of the natural branches who come to faith in Christ.
But, Israel, on earth, is defined by the Exodus and Sinai. But by necessity there's been a change in the law delivered at Sinai. Every high priest was taken from Levi, according to the law, but Christ descended from Judah. By the law He cannot be the High Priest. The priesthood has changed, and that necessitates a disannulling of the law, which disannuls the temple cultus, and the temple itself. Hebrews 7:12 ff
But Christ is the Root of the Olive Tree. The tabernacle, priesthood and offerings being disannulled, there is nothing that sanctifies the real estate. It is about returning to a Person, not to some acreage anywhere.
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As to the current world events, what possible difference would that make to our response or reaction?
Why is chapter 11 not also God's present dealings?
Tom Brennan is a good guy and I like him but his position is typical that of any average Dispensational Premillennial Baptist so he is saying nothing new. What frustrates me is that many just recite the common "party line" and never really dig deeper or closely examine their position. As obsessed with eschatology as they are, you would think they would look beyond their Larkin Charts and Scofield Notes?
Of course Israel and the Church is not the same! Israel is mostly unregenerate so they are certainly not "The Church" nor are they (in their current unregenerate state) the "seed of Abraham according to the promise" because they do not possess the Faith of Abraham!
We therefore cannot call modern day Israel "God's Elect" because if they were elect, they would acknowledge Christ as Messiah and would proclaim him as such. We can say that concerning the election, they are beloved for their forefathers' sake (Rom 11:28) just as our unsaved relatives are beloved for our sake.
I stubbornly hold to the premillennial position because I cannot get away from the fact that there are yet all of these "Kingdom" prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled of which the Apostles were expecting (Acts 1:6) as well as the unbelieving Jews who are still clinging to the hope of Messiah. I have heard some A-Millennial Reformed folks trying to make the case that all these prophecies will be fulfilled in the "Age to Come" (New heavens and new earth) but this does not seem satisfactory to me.
I therefore believe that there will be a day when the Ezekiel 11:17-20 will be fulfilled in its entirety and Israel's heart of stone will be replaced with a heart of flesh. The blindness of the Jews will be lifted and they will be granted repentance and faith to believe and will be collectively and instantaneously "Born Again!"
I would also say that in the Old Testament, God's institution is Israel. In the New Testament, God's institution is The Church. If the Pre-Millennial position is correct, Christ will set up his throne in Jerusalem and HE will be this institution. Now, how or whether the Church and Israel are distinctly separate or united as one body at this point, I really could not say.
What is the tree into which we're grafted, and off of which the unbelieving are cut?
Vs. 23 says God can graff them back in again.
Vs. 25 is key here - ...that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Therefore the blindness of Israel is not permanent, God will one day restore their sight. Even RC Sproul acknowledged this.
Whether this happens within the context of the Dispensational Premillennialist view remains to be seen. Care to make a wager?
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Not much time lately for the FFF, so apologies for the short interaction, but why can it not be both?
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Isreal pursuing righteousness by works and failing to attain it, because they stumble over Christ (Rom 9:32), is a present reality.
Israel consisting of Jewish and Gentile believers is a future reality, but that's becaue it's already a present reality as well.
The Holy Land is to be understood as Christ and His church. The Apostle said directly to the believing Jews:
For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, ... But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel. - Hebrews 12:18, 22-24
Agreed, as I said earlier, He is re-engrafting. There are believing Jews.
That is true, and it's a mystery, that God chose the disobedience of Israel according to the flesh to be the salvation of the nations.
That is not a restoration of them to political dominance or to a geographical location. They will cross the Jordan in the real sense, and enter the Heavenly Jerusalem.Therefore the blindness of Israel is not permanent, God will one day restore their sight. Even RC Sproul acknowledged this.
Whether this happens within the context of the Dispensational Premillennialist view remains to be seen. Care to make a wager?
How will God fulfill all the "Kingdom Prophecies" related to Messiah reigning on the throne of David?
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At what time does the Messiah take the throne of David?
I'm not 100% certain aside from the fact that scriptures clearly state that he will. Pre-Millennial Dispys say this will happen after Christ returns setting down upon the Mount of Olives returning the very same way in which he left (Acts 1:11) of which I lean heavily towards.
I heard Tim Conway on the "I'll be Honest" podcast assert that there is only one "Age to Come" rather than "Ages" as Dispys would state. Much of it seems semantical but I am guessing they would believe all of the "Kingdom Prophecies" would be fulfilled in the "New heavens and new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Pet 3:13). Since the scriptures do state "of the Increase of his government shall be no end" (Isa 9:6), it is clear that this "Kingdom" shall extend into this "Age to Come" (eternity) but it seems that A-Mils are being a little inconsistent here as they believe that the "Kingdom" (of which the pre-mil dispys speak) is spiritual and that Christ is presently ruling this kingdom from this throne in Heaven! The big problem with this is that the throne in heaven is GOD'S throne, not David's! God does not share HIS THRONE with anybody!
But then again, I believe it is agreed upon by all that Christ will reign in the New Jerusalem in the new heavens and the new earth and if this is what all of the "Kingdom" prophecies are speaking of, then Christ's return is still a Pre-Millennial return!
I know that much of Revelation uses a great deal of symbolism and certain descriptions which may or not be literal (like Apollyon, for example) but the events in Rev 19-20 seem pretty much straight forward to me. There is definitely a good bit of activity taking place between Christ's literal, physical return in Ch. 19 and the New Heavens and New Earth in Rev 21:1. The "Kingdom" also seems very much distinct from what we read from Rev 21:1 on.
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Zion, contextually driven, has many meanings ranging from symbolizing God's presence and nearness, to geographic, and prophetic significance. The passage you reference in Hebrews keeps in context well with the theme of the author of Hebrews that Christ is superior to the Old Covenant in every way, and that all who now have access to God through Christ can do so without having to go through an intermediary. The Jews, just as the story of the of the Samaritan woman at the well illustrates, often rejected the Messiah in favor of religion, and the book of Hebrews is telling those Jews (just as Galatians does) to not turn to those beggarly and rudimentary elements of worship when the veil has been (or was about to be in her case) ripped in twain. As such, rejecting the Messiah and not receiving the promises foretold by the prophets about the coming of the Messiah is a proper application of Hebrews 12, but using that text to say that it fulfilled all the prophesies that Zion will be the place of gathering for God's people seems to allegorize the passage.
More accurately, that there is no other access to God...
...now that the patterns of heavenly things are done away with.
Again, the Exodus, Sinai, Jordan and Canaan were all patterns. The Apostle is telling his listeners that Christ and His church are the true Zion.
