Jack Schapp books

[Smellin Coffee]

It seems we readily accept the advances of science and medicine when the illness is physical. As soon as the illness is mental, not so much. Thank God for aspirin, ibuprofin, chemo, et al. But do not tell anyone you are on Effexor or Wellbutrin or Paxil....those are DRUGS, brother.

Agreed.

One particular "dark" time in my life after my cancer surgery, Wellbutrin and counseling with a Methodist Pastor who is a state certified psychologist really benefited me and I was able to get off the meds in a matter of a couple months. I realize for some it might take much longer, even years but in essence, depression IS physiological and many times physiological ailments are generally treated with meds.

I think of the biblical term "oil". The Good Samaritan treated the roadside victim with "oil". It had medicinal properties. The same I believe holds true when James said for people who are sick to seek elders for the anointing of "oil". I believe that too means they are to ensure proper medical care for the ailing one.

 

[Still There]

Wonder if Cindy, Ken or Jacklyn kept any?

 

[Bruh]

I even destroyed all my Davey-boy Church Ed notes along with ALL of his books.

I destroyed all his Christian Manhood notes the day after the tests. When he taught us how to clip our toenails, I wrote the course off as a waste of time. I figured if my parents didn't teach me how to be a man, I didn't need to learn it from him.

And to think that many still believe they went to a real college.  smh

 

[fishinnut]

I even destroyed all my Davey-boy Church Ed notes along with ALL of his books.

I destroyed all his Christian Manhood notes the day after the tests. When he taught us how to clip our toenails, I wrote the course off as a waste of time. I figured if my parents didn't teach me how to be a man, I didn't need to learn it from him.

Agreed. I don't remember that one but there were many of his 28 points lectures that I purposely slept through. And for Raider's info, one of the reasons I sat in the original Amen Corner in chapel & CE was that we'd sit there many times & crack jokes about hogwash like mentioned above.

Davey-boy thought he knew all about being a man because he would beat up on bus kids, hit on married women (& rumor has-it also teen girls). I always thought when I'd see him walking on the ball of his feet that he needed to learn how to walk like a man himself.
Pass In Review

 

[bgwilkinson]

It seems we readily accept the advances of science and medicine when the illness is physical. As soon as the illness is mental, not so much. Thank God for aspirin, ibuprofin, chemo, et al. But do not tell anyone you are on Effexor or Wellbutrin or Paxil....those are DRUGS, brother.

Agreed.

One particular "dark" time in my life after my cancer surgery, Wellbutrin and counseling with a Methodist Pastor who is a state certified psychologist really benefited me and I was able to get off the meds in a matter of a couple months. I realize for some it might take much longer, even years but in essence, depression IS physiological and many times physiological ailments are generally treated with meds.

I think of the biblical term "oil". The Good Samaritan treated the roadside victim with "oil". It had medicinal properties. The same I believe holds true when James said for people who are sick to seek elders for the anointing of "oil". I believe that too means they are to ensure proper medical care for the ailing one.

Paul advised Timothy to drink wine for his stomach problems.

“No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities”

I Tim 5:23

Guess the Bible is full of medical info.

 

[prophet]

Wonder if Cindy, Ken or Jacklyn kept any?

Ouch! That'll leave a mark!

Anishinaabe

 

[prophet]

I even destroyed all my Davey-boy Church Ed notes along with ALL of his books.

I destroyed all his Christian Manhood notes the day after the tests. When he taught us how to clip our toenails, I wrote the course off as a waste of time. I figured if my parents didn't teach me how to be a man, I didn't need to learn it from him.

Agreed. I don't remember that one but there were many of his 28 points lectures that I purposely slept through. And for Raider's info, one of the reasons I sat in the original Amen Corner in chapel & CE was that we'd sit there many times & crack jokes about hogwash like mentioned above.

Davey-boy thought he knew all about being a man because he would beat up on bus kids, hit on married women (& rumor has-it also teen girls). I always thought when I'd see him walking on the ball of his feet that he needed to learn how to walk like a man himself.
Pass In Review

Semper Fi!
You could set a glass of water on those covers, and drink it after the review!

Anishinaabe

 

[16KJV11]

It seems we readily accept the advances of science and medicine when the illness is physical. As soon as the illness is mental, not so much. Thank God for aspirin, ibuprofin, chemo, et al. But do not tell anyone you are on Effexor or Wellbutrin or Paxil....those are DRUGS, brother.

I always get a kick out of the possible side effects for Lithium type drugs: "May cause suicidal thoughts".
How on earth is a drug that is supposed to help depression cause 'suicidal thoughts?'
Good grief!

 

[Smellin Coffee]

It seems we readily accept the advances of science and medicine when the illness is physical. As soon as the illness is mental, not so much. Thank God for aspirin, ibuprofin, chemo, et al. But do not tell anyone you are on Effexor or Wellbutrin or Paxil....those are DRUGS, brother.

Agreed.

One particular "dark" time in my life after my cancer surgery, Wellbutrin and counseling with a Methodist Pastor who is a state certified psychologist really benefited me and I was able to get off the meds in a matter of a couple months. I realize for some it might take much longer, even years but in essence, depression IS physiological and many times physiological ailments are generally treated with meds.

I think of the biblical term "oil". The Good Samaritan treated the roadside victim with "oil". It had medicinal properties. The same I believe holds true when James said for people who are sick to seek elders for the anointing of "oil". I believe that too means they are to ensure proper medical care for the ailing one.

Paul advised Timothy to drink wine for his stomach problems.

“No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities”

I Tim 5:23

Guess the Bible is full of medical info.

But it doesn't mention setting broken arms or giving chemo radiation for cancer so I would think there is more medical info and help out there than what is mentioned in the Bible.

 

[16KJV11]

It seems we readily accept the advances of science and medicine when the illness is physical. As soon as the illness is mental, not so much. Thank God for aspirin, ibuprofin, chemo, et al. But do not tell anyone you are on Effexor or Wellbutrin or Paxil....those are DRUGS, brother.

Agreed.

One particular "dark" time in my life after my cancer surgery, Wellbutrin and counseling with a Methodist Pastor who is a state certified psychologist really benefited me and I was able to get off the meds in a matter of a couple months. I realize for some it might take much longer, even years but in essence, depression IS physiological and many times physiological ailments are generally treated with meds.

I think of the biblical term "oil". The Good Samaritan treated the roadside victim with "oil". It had medicinal properties. The same I believe holds true when James said for people who are sick to seek elders for the anointing of "oil". I believe that too means they are to ensure proper medical care for the ailing one.

Paul advised Timothy to drink wine for his stomach problems.

“No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities”

I Tim 5:23

Guess the Bible is full of medical info.

Not to mention hygiene (running water over your hands) and "the life of the flesh is in the blood".  Took medical science a few thousand years to catch up with that one (George Washington's death by bloodletting)

 

[Smellin Coffee]

It seems we readily accept the advances of science and medicine when the illness is physical. As soon as the illness is mental, not so much. Thank God for aspirin, ibuprofin, chemo, et al. But do not tell anyone you are on Effexor or Wellbutrin or Paxil....those are DRUGS, brother.

Agreed.

One particular "dark" time in my life after my cancer surgery, Wellbutrin and counseling with a Methodist Pastor who is a state certified psychologist really benefited me and I was able to get off the meds in a matter of a couple months. I realize for some it might take much longer, even years but in essence, depression IS physiological and many times physiological ailments are generally treated with meds.

I think of the biblical term "oil". The Good Samaritan treated the roadside victim with "oil". It had medicinal properties. The same I believe holds true when James said for people who are sick to seek elders for the anointing of "oil". I believe that too means they are to ensure proper medical care for the ailing one.

Paul advised Timothy to drink wine for his stomach problems.

“No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities”

I Tim 5:23

Guess the Bible is full of medical info.

Not to mention hygiene (running water over your hands) and "the life of the flesh is in the blood".  Took medical science a few thousand years to catch up with that one (George Washington's death by bloodletting)

Bogus context. Leviticus was talking about eating live animals:

“If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood."

Certainly there was no medicinal purpose in that passage.

I also contend that it is pure ignorance to believe that George Washington and those of his era were completely naive to the fact that people can actually bleed enough to die. Do you really believe that he thought he could empty his body entirely of blood and live? Did people of that time really not know that one could die by bleeding out? How about after thousands of years of history in stabbings, warfare, etc.?

I don't mind using the Bible as a means of medical information (like Paul's admonition to Timothy) but we should keep it in context, both biblically and historically.

 

[sword]

It seems we readily accept the advances of science and medicine when the illness is physical. As soon as the illness is mental, not so much. Thank God for aspirin, ibuprofin, chemo, et al. But do not tell anyone you are on Effexor or Wellbutrin or Paxil....those are DRUGS, brother.

Agreed.

One particular "dark" time in my life after my cancer surgery, Wellbutrin and counseling with a Methodist Pastor who is a state certified psychologist really benefited me and I was able to get off the meds in a matter of a couple months. I realize for some it might take much longer, even years but in essence, depression IS physiological and many times physiological ailments are generally treated with meds.

I think of the biblical term "oil". The Good Samaritan treated the roadside victim with "oil". It had medicinal properties. The same I believe holds true when James said for people who are sick to seek elders for the anointing of "oil". I believe that too means they are to ensure proper medical care for the ailing one.

Paul advised Timothy to drink wine for his stomach problems.

“No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities”

I Tim 5:23

Guess the Bible is full of medical info.

Not to mention hygiene (running water over your hands) and "the life of the flesh is in the blood".  Took medical science a few thousand years to catch up with that one (George Washington's death by bloodletting)

Bogus context. Leviticus was talking about eating live animals:

“If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood."

Certainly there was no medicinal purpose in that passage.

I also contend that it is pure ignorance to believe that George Washington and those of his era were completely naive to the fact that people can actually bleed enough to die. Do you really believe that he thought he could empty his body entirely of blood and live? Did people of that time really not know that one could die by bleeding out? How about after thousands of years of history in stabbings, warfare, etc.?

I don't mind using the Bible as a means of medical information (like Paul's admonition to Timothy) but we should keep it in context, both biblically and historically.

You can contend all you want but bloodletting was indicated as standard treatment well into the 1800's. Most medical manuals & journals published before 1860 included this practice as standard treatment.  It was not until the late 1800's when studies by Pasteur & others changed views on bloodletting.


From  The history of bloodletting
Issue: BCMJ, Vol. 52, No. 1, January, February 2010, page(s) 12-14 Premise
By:Gerry Greenstone, MD
In Paris Dr Pierre Louis (1787–1872) was another scientific-minded physician who wanted to assess the efficacy of bloodletting. He examined the clinical course and outcomes of 77 patients with acute pneumonia taken from his own and hospital records.
He compared the results in patients treated with bloodletting in the early phase versus the late phase of the illness. In his conclusions he did not condemn bloodletting but concluded that the ef­fect of this procedure “was actually much less than has been commonly be­lieved.”

Subsequent studies by Pasteur, Koch, Virchow, and others confirmed the validity of the new scientific methods, and the use of bloodletting gradually diminished to a few select conditions.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

It seems we readily accept the advances of science and medicine when the illness is physical. As soon as the illness is mental, not so much. Thank God for aspirin, ibuprofin, chemo, et al. But do not tell anyone you are on Effexor or Wellbutrin or Paxil....those are DRUGS, brother.

Agreed.

One particular "dark" time in my life after my cancer surgery, Wellbutrin and counseling with a Methodist Pastor who is a state certified psychologist really benefited me and I was able to get off the meds in a matter of a couple months. I realize for some it might take much longer, even years but in essence, depression IS physiological and many times physiological ailments are generally treated with meds.

I think of the biblical term "oil". The Good Samaritan treated the roadside victim with "oil". It had medicinal properties. The same I believe holds true when James said for people who are sick to seek elders for the anointing of "oil". I believe that too means they are to ensure proper medical care for the ailing one.

Paul advised Timothy to drink wine for his stomach problems.

“No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities”

I Tim 5:23

Guess the Bible is full of medical info.

Not to mention hygiene (running water over your hands) and "the life of the flesh is in the blood".  Took medical science a few thousand years to catch up with that one (George Washington's death by bloodletting)

Bogus context. Leviticus was talking about eating live animals:

“If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood."

Certainly there was no medicinal purpose in that passage.

I also contend that it is pure ignorance to believe that George Washington and those of his era were completely naive to the fact that people can actually bleed enough to die. Do you really believe that he thought he could empty his body entirely of blood and live? Did people of that time really not know that one could die by bleeding out? How about after thousands of years of history in stabbings, warfare, etc.?

I don't mind using the Bible as a means of medical information (like Paul's admonition to Timothy) but we should keep it in context, both biblically and historically.

You can contend all you want but bloodletting was indicated as standard treatment well into the 1800's. Most medical manuals & journals published before 1860 included this practice as standard treatment.  It was not until the late 1800's when studies by Pasteur & others changed views on bloodletting.


From  The history of bloodletting
Issue: BCMJ, Vol. 52, No. 1, January, February 2010, page(s) 12-14 Premise
By:Gerry Greenstone, MD
In Paris Dr Pierre Louis (1787–1872) was another scientific-minded physician who wanted to assess the efficacy of bloodletting. He examined the clinical course and outcomes of 77 patients with acute pneumonia taken from his own and hospital records.
He compared the results in patients treated with bloodletting in the early phase versus the late phase of the illness. In his conclusions he did not condemn bloodletting but concluded that the ef­fect of this procedure “was actually much less than has been commonly be­lieved.”

Subsequent studies by Pasteur, Koch, Virchow, and others confirmed the validity of the new scientific methods, and the use of bloodletting gradually diminished to a few select conditions.

That is not at all what I am saying. Of course there was bloodletting. What I am saying is that people were NOT ignorant of the fact that a person could die by losing too much blood. The argument is a strawman built to defend scientific "proofs" in the Bible that existed before science discovered them. "The life of the flesh is in the blood" was:

A. A known fact by humankind long before bloodletting in George Washington's day,
B. Not designated in context of the verse to prove that humans lived longer by their retaining blood,
C. Not in context of the verse written about human life at all and
D. Not in context of the verse written in the Bible to reveal or prove a new or existing scientific/medicinal principle.

 

[Wisdoms Friend]

As a graduate of TBC (JAX) who had my marriage performed by Pastor Gray and was ordained by him, I deeply feel the hurt and shame from being deceived into believing he was a hero of the faith.  These many years after that scandal came to light, I still find myself filtering any public statement I might make with his name attached. 

Example: In the past I might have said, "I remember when Brother Gray was teaching one day and said..."  Now, if there is something that is worth mentioning that I learned in those days, I say something like this: "I remember my pastor once said..."

He was not a prolific author, but the few books he had published through SOL are in a box in my closet.  I can't tell you why I haven't just dumped them in the trash, but I can tell you that I haven't looked at them in years.  I still have a case somewhere with a couple hundred cassette tapes of his sermons (the fact I no longer own a cassette player makes the decision to not listen to them again much easier!)

I believe all the "good" he accomplished was in spite of him, not because of him.  Any "good" he may have done is far out-shadowed by his evil.  It is how a man runs the race (Hebrews 12:1-2) that counts, not the fast start, or the flashy uniform, or even in what order he finishes.  If the race is not run lawfully (2 Timothy 2:5) than nothing else is remembered.

Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward - 2 John 8. - The individuals whose writings, teaching and preaching I will glean from are those who have run the race true to Christ. 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I know it sounds ironic, but his book, "Marriage the divine intimacy" is the one we decided to keep. I think that is the one that may have controversy over some thing but the overall content of the book is worth keeping to pass on to our children.

Not to change the subject, but I was appalled by the way FBC turned on their "beloved" pastor publicly. They went out of their way to publicly and internally smear him when they did not have to.

There is a proper way to treat fallen leaders that is proper and respectable without condoning the sin or lacking compassion for the victim. This has been a historic practice for leaders of all types. Why? It started out of superstition. Kings and leaders of civilized societies would not dare violently insult or abuse an enemy of his same position when the opportunity arrived for fear of karma.

FBC took the road of pragmatism and expediency instead of civility and respectability.

You kept his book that compared Lord's Supper to sex with God.

They did NOT turn on their pastor publicly.  Even if they had, how can you be apalled at calling sin, sin?

Leaders, more than others, need to have their public sin publicly reprimanded.

You have problems, my friend.

 

[bgwilkinson]

I know it sounds ironic, but his book, "Marriage the divine intimacy" is the one we decided to keep. I think that is the one that may have controversy over some thing but the overall content of the book is worth keeping to pass on to our children.

Not to change the subject, but I was appalled by the way FBC turned on their "beloved" pastor publicly. They went out of their way to publicly and internally smear him when they did not have to.

There is a proper way to treat fallen leaders that is proper and respectable without condoning the sin or lacking compassion for the victim. This has been a historic practice for leaders of all types. Why? It started out of superstition. Kings and leaders of civilized societies would not dare violently insult or abuse an enemy of his same position when the opportunity arrived for fear of karma.

FBC took the road of pragmatism and expediency instead of civility and respectability.

You kept his book that compared Lord's Supper to sex with God.

They did NOT turn on their pastor publicly.  Even if they had, how can you be apalled at calling sin, sin?

Leaders, more than others, need to have their public sin publicly reprimanded.

You have problems, my friend.

When we finally came to ourselves we realized that our two former pastors had extremely serious character

flaws of which we are most ashamed. We do not like to mention either one of their names.

That is why at the anniversary of JH death it was not even mentioned among us.

In the past we would have had a hero worshiping service.

There are some of those on You Tube you can watch.

We prefer to worship God and not some MOG.

I hope we have learned our lesson.

 

[prophet]

I often refer to you guys in JAX.  JH knew for years about BG's laciviousness.

Thanks for your input, WF.

Anishinaabe

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I was very close to Bro. Hyles.  Very close.  Though the validity of his indiscretion with JN is questionable, the errors with his children, the direction of the ministry to Performance Based Christianity and lauding the accomplishments of men above the awe of God along with the indiscretion concerning other non-repentant abusers in the church were great.  This has been a hard fact for me to accept.  I no longer refer to the church or pastor of my youth by name when speaking to others.  I only state that I attended Bible college, hoping people do not ask where.  Still, I believe in autonomous Baptist churches that practice the fundamentals of the faith.

I still have all of JH's books, but looking through them brings such a conflict of emotion that I just pass by.

I always thought of JS as a phony who impressed feeble minds with his charades.  I have a few of his books that people gave me, or my wife had before we met.  I keep them because I hate to throw out books.  I keep them because I can point to the warped thinking of a prideful man.

 

[groupie]

Maybe this would help clear the air.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-jack-schaap-sentencing-memorandum-20130314,0,4467793.htmlpage

It should be required reading before reading any of Jack Schaap's books. 

All that time he had to spend counseling with her.....and to think in my darkest hours of despair, all he could do for me was open his office door and say, "You have three minutes, so hurry up". The next meeting he had his staff lie and say he was out of town when I knew he was not as he had passed me Indianapolis Blvd. The next meeting he cursed me out using the "F" word and a few other choice 4 letter words and then jerked open his door to a hallway full of folks and yelled, "Don't come back until you get right with God".

I told 4 people and all of them told me to stop lying and attacking God's man. A few months back , 1 of those people told me that type of languag, which he often used in his angry tirades to staff, got him labeled as "the Bobby Knight" of fundamentalism. Still no apology from him for calling me a liar and attacking God's man.

It is really quite sad as there was a time, I would have done anything the man told me to do. I loved him and was a loyal friend. That love and loyalty was not reciprocated. Because of his actions, I have never been able to totally give my heart to a pastor since. But in time, it was the greatest blessing. It has caused me to cling to Christ with every bit of strength I have.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Maybe this would help clear the air.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-jack-schaap-sentencing-memorandum-20130314,0,4467793.htmlpage

It should be required reading before reading any of Jack Schaap's books. 

All that time he had to spend counseling with her.....and to think in my darkest hours of despair, all he could do for me was open his office door and say, "You have three minutes, so hurry up". The next meeting he had his staff lie and say he was out of town when I knew he was not as he had passed me Indianapolis Blvd. The next meeting he cursed me out using the "F" word and a few other choice 4 letter words and then jerked open his door to a hallway full of folks and yelled, "Don't come back until you get right with God".

I told 4 people and all of them told me to stop lying and attacking God's man. A few months back , 1 of those people told me that type of languag, which he often used in his angry tirades to staff, got him labeled as "the Bobby Knight" of fundamentalism. Still no apology from him for calling me a liar and attacking God's man.

It is really quite sad as there was a time, I would have done anything the man told me to do. I loved him and was a loyal friend. That love and loyalty was not reciprocated. Because of his actions, I have never been able to totally give my heart to a pastor since. But in time, it was the greatest blessing. It has caused me to cling to Christ with every bit of strength I have.

Give your heart only to Jesus and as the pastor gives his heart only to Jesus you can have sweet fellowship

serving the LORD in the unity of the Holy Spirit.