Jeremy Whitman Lancaster Baptist Church Does anyone know anything about this?

[prophet]

Even though my brain is engaged, I simply cannot follow this thread. It is making my head spin.

Prophet, your story makes me so sad. And frustrated. I will NEVER NEVER understand why things are not different. Why perpetrators around here are protected while victims are shunned or worse.

This is exactly the scenario as when the grade school boy committed suicide due to being bullied so badly at HB. Instead of embracing the family of the deceased, instead of weeping with and loving the family, a campaign to impugn them was set in motion. "You know, there were problems in the family before all of this..."was the main talking point that was supposed to get around. The sister of the deceased was called in to the office and they tried to coerce her to change her story of the situation.

I will NEVER NEVER NEVER understand the evil that is embedded in this place.

I cannot not trust a motive or an action or a statement. I simply cannot. JW likes to refer to pastors, and especially missionaries, as they who are "punching holes in the darkness." I'd like to see someone punch a hole in the darkness that envelopes this place.

I could say more on the above, but hearing prophet's story just brought a lot of feelings to the surface. And the story of the baby...and what Ray Young said...evil is the only way to describe this. Evil, evil, evil, and more evil.

But I cannot follow this thread. BALAAM, who was the person in jail JH went to see? I did not get that. Was I the only one?

I remember the HBJH students telling me that that boy was tortured unmercifully at school.
I saw it happen when I was there.

I blame it on Jack Hyles'foolish effeminate philosophy, that you cam praise people into becoming what you want them to be. 
They become monsters, like DH, when you do that.
FBCH has been full of little Hitlers, flattered into tyranny, willing to toe any line, in order to stay in the kool kids klub.

Anishinaabe

 

[Bruh]

Even though my brain is engaged, I simply cannot follow this thread. It is making my head spin.

Prophet, your story makes me so sad. And frustrated. I will NEVER NEVER understand why things are not different. Why perpetrators around here are protected while victims are shunned or worse.

This is exactly the scenario as when the grade school boy committed suicide due to being bullied so badly at HB. Instead of embracing the family of the deceased, instead of weeping with and loving the family, a campaign to impugn them was set in motion. "You know, there were problems in the family before all of this..."was the main talking point that was supposed to get around. The sister of the deceased was called in to the office and they tried to coerce her to change her story of the situation.

I will NEVER NEVER NEVER understand the evil that is embedded in this place.

I cannot not trust a motive or an action or a statement. I simply cannot. JW likes to refer to pastors, and especially missionaries, as they who are "punching holes in the darkness." I'd like to see someone punch a hole in the darkness that envelopes this place.

I could say more on the above, but hearing prophet's story just brought a lot of feelings to the surface. And the story of the baby...and what Ray Young said...evil is the only way to describe this. Evil, evil, evil, and more evil.

But I cannot follow this thread. BALAAM, who was the person in jail JH went to see? I did not get that. Was I the only one?

I remember the HBJH students telling me that that boy was tortured unmercifully at school.
I saw it happen when I was there.

I blame it on Jack Hyles'foolish effeminate philosophy, that you cam praise people into becoming what you want them to be. 
They become monsters, like DH, when you do that.
FBCH has been full of little Hitlers, flattered into tyranny, willing to toe any line, in order to stay in the kool kids klub.

Anishinaabe

I'm not following all of this as well.  My only question is this, do the parents of these children hold any blame?  I go to a church where the Pastor and I do not agree on everything.  Pants on women is one, my wife wears pants I see no sin in this.  The Pastor and myself have talked about this, once.  If I felt that she or any of my children were being abused in any way, we would be gone. Period.  For a few reasons but one of the main ones would be because I do not want my children to see Christianity in that light. 

 

[Roy Payne]

My family has moved around a lot.  Kansas City, Chicago, Dallas, Northern California.  We've attended city churches & rural churches.  IFCA, BBF, & Indep. Baptist.  We have only left one church and that was due to a dictator pastor (BBF) who ran the church like it was his own with no regard for the constitution & by laws, accountable to no one.  A group of 6-8 families desired to confront him, but he refused to call a church meeting & the two rubber-stamp deacons did nothing.  All concerned left the church.  We tried to confront him openly during a service & were escorted out of the church by his mindless grandson & the son of one of said deacons.  God used that to move me back into the pastorate of a minuscule rural Baptist church & we are so blessed.  As a result, our sons learned to stand for what is right without any bitterness & today they are both married and in full-time ministry.  I learned as a babe in Christ to keep my eyes on the Lord and not on any man.  I teach & preach this in every church where I've served.  As a pastor, I've been questioned, I've been slandered, I've been gossiped about, & I've been unjustly accused.  Yet the grace of God has kept me & my family rejoicing & continuing to serve.  Praise His Name !!  And I will continue to pray for the families of Erik & Jeremy, the pastoral staff at LBC, and all who are being impacted by this very sad situation.  Keep your eyes on Christ Who will never disappoint you !!

 

[wtyson]

My family has moved around a lot.  Kansas City, Chicago, Dallas, Northern California.  We've attended city churches & rural churches.  IFCA, BBF, & Indep. Baptist.  We have only left one church and that was due to a dictator pastor (BBF) who ran the church like it was his own with no regard for the constitution & by laws, accountable to no one.  A group of 6-8 families desired to confront him, but he refused to call a church meeting & the two rubber-stamp deacons did nothing.  All concerned left the church.  We tried to confront him openly during a service & were escorted out of the church by his mindless grandson & the son of one of said deacons.  God used that to move me back into the pastorate of a minuscule rural Baptist church & we are so blessed.  As a result, our sons learned to stand for what is right without any bitterness & today they are both married and in full-time ministry.  I learned as a babe in Christ to keep my eyes on the Lord and not on any man.  I teach & preach this in every church where I've served.  As a pastor, I've been questioned, I've been slandered, I've been gossiped about, & I've been unjustly accused.  Yet the grace of God has kept me & my family rejoicing & continuing to serve.  Praise His Name !!  And I will continue to pray for the families of Erik & Jeremy, the pastoral staff at LBC, and all who are being impacted by this very sad situation.  Keep your eyes on Christ Who will never disappoint you !!

Amen!

By the way...there is no minuscule churches in God's eyes! Praise the Lord for what you are doing to reach the lost for Christ!

Prayers continue for both of these families and the staff of LBC as they help these grieving families through this difficult time.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

With no more information being posted about the original topic.......  Is it safe to assume that life is back to normal at LBC and WCBC? 

Let's see, a momentary "oh, my!  How??"  Followed by the MOG proclaiming that all is well, an isolated case, don't question me or you will end up in the same situation, etc.  Now - no investigation, no audit, no disclosure - and all is back to Bubble World?

 

[wtyson]

With no more information being posted about the original topic.......  Is it safe to assume that life is back to normal at LBC and WCBC? 

Let's see, a momentary "oh, my!  How??"  Followed by the MOG proclaiming that all is well, an isolated case, don't question me or you will end up in the same situation, etc.  Now - no investigation, no audit, no disclosure - and all is back to Bubble World?

What would you expect them to do? It is and was a tragic circumstance. It seems like this staff member left earlier in the year and headed down a road that ultimately lead to a horrible outcome.

I am sure the authorities are investigating. It would be inappropriate for PC, LBC or WCBC to publicly disclose pertinent information they have (if any) to those who DO NOT need it.

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

With no more information being posted about the original topic.......  Is it safe to assume that life is back to normal at LBC and WCBC? 

Let's see, a momentary "oh, my!  How??"  Followed by the MOG proclaiming that all is well, an isolated case, don't question me or you will end up in the same situation, etc.  Now - no investigation, no audit, no disclosure - and all is back to Bubble World?

Five months. In five months he went from an ordained pastor, working closely with the senior pastor, to murderer.
Nothing to see here...

Why did they lie to the AVPress about Jeremy's role at LBC?
Sheeple don't ask such questions...

 

[wtyson]

With no more information being posted about the original topic.......  Is it safe to assume that life is back to normal at LBC and WCBC? 

Let's see, a momentary "oh, my!  How??"  Followed by the MOG proclaiming that all is well, an isolated case, don't question me or you will end up in the same situation, etc.  Now - no investigation, no audit, no disclosure - and all is back to Bubble World?

Five months. In five months he went from an ordained pastor, working closely with the senior pastor, to murderer.
Nothing to see here...

Why did they lie to the AVPress about Jeremy's role at LBC?
Sheeple don't ask such questions...

David went from a king to adulterer and murderer in days.
Moses went from the kings son to murderer in minutes.
Judas went from disciple to betrayer in moments.

We are all vulnerable to sin. May be take this tragedy and be sober and vigilant.

 

[bgwilkinson]

With no more information being posted about the original topic.......  Is it safe to assume that life is back to normal at LBC and WCBC? 

Let's see, a momentary "oh, my!  How??"  Followed by the MOG proclaiming that all is well, an isolated case, don't question me or you will end up in the same situation, etc.  Now - no investigation, no audit, no disclosure - and all is back to Bubble World?

Five months. In five months he went from an ordained pastor, working closely with the senior pastor, to murderer.
Nothing to see here...

Why did they lie to the AVPress about Jeremy's role at LBC?
Sheeple don't ask such questions...

David went from a king to adulterer and murderer in days.
Moses went from the kings son to murderer in minutes.
Judas went from disciple to betrayer in moments.

We are all vulnerable to sin. May be take this tragedy and be sober and vigilant.

Are you saying he went from assistant pastor to murderer in just minutes?

And that something happened to cause him to leave as assistant pastor?

What pertinent details should we know that are now being obscured?

I do not follow your reasoning.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=wtyson]David went from a king to adulterer and murderer in days.
Moses went from the kings son to murderer in minutes.
Judas went from disciple to betrayer in moments...[/quote]

Yet their former roles were not hidden from view but made visible for everyone to see through all the ages. One of the many things Scripture is good for is exposing the people who try to hide who they really are and push instead for more and more openness and transparency. Why shouldn't we expect those who claim to worship the God revealed in Scripture to hold to the same virtues?

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

With no more information being posted about the original topic.......  Is it safe to assume that life is back to normal at LBC and WCBC? 

Let's see, a momentary "oh, my!  How??"  Followed by the MOG proclaiming that all is well, an isolated case, don't question me or you will end up in the same situation, etc.  Now - no investigation, no audit, no disclosure - and all is back to Bubble World?

Five months. In five months he went from an ordained pastor, working closely with the senior pastor, to murderer.
Nothing to see here...

Why did they lie to the AVPress about Jeremy's role at LBC?
Sheeple don't ask such questions...

David went from a king to adulterer and murderer in days.
Moses went from the kings son to murderer in minutes.
Judas went from disciple to betrayer in moments.

We are all vulnerable to sin. May be take this tragedy and be sober and vigilant.

And what about the lie told to the newspaper?

 

[wtyson]

[quote author=wtyson]David went from a king to adulterer and murderer in days.
Moses went from the kings son to murderer in minutes.
Judas went from disciple to betrayer in moments...

Yet their former roles were not hidden from view but made visible for everyone to see through all the ages. One of the many things Scripture is good for is exposing the people who try to hide who they really are and push instead for more and more openness and transparency. Why shouldn't we expect those who claim to worship the God revealed in Scripture to hold to the same virtues?
[/quote]

Their roles hidden from view?

Last Sunday morning PC shared with the congregation his thoughts regarding this matter. He spoke of this man being a part of the ministry and deciding to leave the church and his family. I am not sure about this report denying this guy being on staff. Perhaps the question was asked as to whether he was still a staff member. My guess is that was the angle the reporter was looking at..."pastor guilty of murder"

Every pastor, worker and Christian should be expected and be held to accountability. This DOES NOT mean PC or a staf member should get up in front of the church a put out a laundry list of Whitman indiscretions. This would be hurtful to their family and quite distasteful.

It seems to me that PC & LBC have done all that can to help the families involved in this situation. I don't know for sure and MOST if not ALL on this forum have no need to know other than sticking our noses into something so we can criticize a brother or another ministry. I find that just as objectionable as the so-called lack of transparency PC is being accused of.

May I ask...what would you have them do here? And why do you think they have not already done what you think they should be doing?

A church and a congregation cannot and must not languish in the poor and sinful decisions of others. We sorrow. We pray. We seek to help. But we also recognize that a lost sinner or a troubled saint is walking in the door that know nothing of yesterday and we must seek to help them today.

I am not trying to attack anyone with my comments here...I appreciate many of you. I do wish you well. I believe our roles as the body of Christ is to pray for the victims involved and support this church in prayer not constant innuendo and criticism.

wtyson

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=wtyson]Their roles hidden from view?

Last Sunday morning PC shared with the congregation his thoughts regarding this matter. He spoke of this man being a part of the ministry and deciding to leave the church and his family. I am not sure about this report denying this guy being on staff. Perhaps the question was asked as to whether he was still a staff member. My guess is that was the angle the reporter was looking at..."pastor guilty of murder" [/quote]

This report is what I believe most people are having the problems with.l

[quote author=wtyson]Every pastor, worker and Christian should be expected and be held to accountability. This DOES NOT mean PC or a staf member should get up in front of the church a put out a laundry list of Whitman indiscretions. This would be hurtful to their family and quite distasteful...

May I ask...what would you have them do here? And why do you think they have not already done what you think they should be doing?[/quote]

Since the one in question is deceased, I'm not sure. I definitely don't think they should be minimizing the role one or both individuals had at the church because then it looks like nothing more than a CYA move because appearances....or something.

If he was still alive and unrepentant about some known sin, I would absolutely say the elders should rebuke him in front of the church.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=wtyson]Their roles hidden from view?

Last Sunday morning PC shared with the congregation his thoughts regarding this matter. He spoke of this man being a part of the ministry and deciding to leave the church and his family. I am not sure about this report denying this guy being on staff. Perhaps the question was asked as to whether he was still a staff member. My guess is that was the angle the reporter was looking at..."pastor guilty of murder"

This report is what I believe most people are having the problems with.l

[quote author=wtyson]Every pastor, worker and Christian should be expected and be held to accountability. This DOES NOT mean PC or a staf member should get up in front of the church a put out a laundry list of Whitman indiscretions. This would be hurtful to their family and quite distasteful...

May I ask...what would you have them do here? And why do you think they have not already done what you think they should be doing?[/quote]

Since the one in question is deceased, I'm not sure. I definitely don't think they should be minimizing the role one or both individuals had at the church because then it looks like nothing more than a CYA move because appearances....or something.

If he was still alive and unrepentant about some known sin, I would absolutely say the elders should rebuke him in front of the church.
[/quote]

IF the church had responsibility for any wrongdoing, they should be held accountable morally, ethically and legally!

But, at this point, I don't see any conspiracy.....anyone who has dealt with any tragic situation like this can understand that everything isn't cut and dried...and the media is the media and can misquote or misunderstand what is said.

It seems to me, from way outside looking in, that the church is dealing responsibly with the situation.

Time will tell and it will come out in the wash...but some of what's posted here almost seems to be 'wishful thinking'....

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Quotes from Antelope Valley Press 1/22/14

"He had worked at Lancaster Baptist Church in what was described as an office clerical job rather than a pastoral role, though he had led Sunday School classes and a high school Bible study."

Tim Christoson, Asst. Pastor acting as the church's spokesperson:
"We were co-workers for a number of years and his role at the church was not a pastoral role. He had a clerical office role."

His nose should be growing and his pants should be on fire.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Does anyone know of a statistical analysis that has been made comparing:

Bad actor IFB pastors per total IFB pastors

Vrs.

Bad actor common Joes per total population

Bad actor is defined as one commiting pedifelia or murder.


I'm wondering with would show the greatest percentage.

 

[prophet]

Quotes from Antelope Valley Press 1/22/14

"He had worked at Lancaster Baptist Church in what was described as an office clerical job rather than a pastoral role, though he had led Sunday School classes and a high school Bible study."

Tim Christoson, Asst. Pastor acting as the church's spokesperson:
"We were co-workers for a number of years and his role at the church was not a pastoral role. He had a clerical office role."

His nose should be growing and his pants should be on fire.

And this reaction, to lie to save face, is the knee jerk reaction of
IFB consistently.  This exposes that we were habitual liars, waiting for a chance to lie, like Abraham was.
This lying is what causes so much anger and resentment among those who are told that "to question leadership is to prove that you do not love God, like you claim to".
Or "Miriam and Aaron questioned Moses, and look what happened".

When you have seen that person lie, to get what he wants, then everything he has ever said is suspect, and so is his motives.

So now the leadership of Lancaster is suspect, until they offer a public apology for a lying attempt to distance themselves from Jeremy Whitman. 

No attempt to smooth this over, or provide reason, will take away the severity of the boldfaced lie that the ass. pastor was sent to tell.



Anishinaabe

 

[bgwilkinson]

Quotes from Antelope Valley Press 1/22/14

"He had worked at Lancaster Baptist Church in what was described as an office clerical job rather than a pastoral role, though he had led Sunday School classes and a high school Bible study."

Tim Christoson, Asst. Pastor acting as the church's spokesperson:
"We were co-workers for a number of years and his role at the church was not a pastoral role. He had a clerical office role."

His nose should be growing and his pants should be on fire.

And this reaction, to lie to save face, is the knee jerk reaction of
IFB consistently.  This exposes that we were habitual liars, waiting for a chance to lie, like Abraham was.
This lying is what causes so much anger and resentment among those who are told that "to question leadership is to prove that you do not love God, like you claim to".
Or "Miriam and Aaron questioned Moses, and look what happened".

When you have seen that person lie, to get what he wants, then everything he has ever said is suspect, and so is his motives.

So now the leadership of Lancaster is suspect, until they offer a public apology for a lying attempt to distance themselves from Jeremy Whitman. 

No attempt to smooth this over, or provide reason, will take away the severity of the boldfaced lie that the ass. pastor was sent to tell.



Anishinaabe

Spot on.

This is the heart of the matter. Integrity and honesty.

It raises the stink of coverup. Protecting the work of the MOG not the work of God.

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Quotes from Antelope Valley Press 1/22/14

"He had worked at Lancaster Baptist Church in what was described as an office clerical job rather than a pastoral role, though he had led Sunday School classes and a high school Bible study."

Tim Christoson, Asst. Pastor acting as the church's spokesperson:
"We were co-workers for a number of years and his role at the church was not a pastoral role. He had a clerical office role."

His nose should be growing and his pants should be on fire.

And this reaction, to lie to save face, is the knee jerk reaction of
IFB consistently.  This exposes that we were habitual liars, waiting for a chance to lie, like Abraham was.
This lying is what causes so much anger and resentment among those who are told that "to question leadership is to prove that you do not love God, like you claim to".
Or "Miriam and Aaron questioned Moses, and look what happened".

When you have seen that person lie, to get what he wants, then everything he has ever said is suspect, and so is his motives.

So now the leadership of Lancaster is suspect, until they offer a public apology for a lying attempt to distance themselves from Jeremy Whitman. 

No attempt to smooth this over, or provide reason, will take away the severity of the boldfaced lie that the ass. pastor was sent to tell.



Anishinaabe

Spot on.

This is the heart of the matter. Integrity and honesty.

It raises the stink of coverup. Protecting the work of the MOG not the work of God.

And this is what stirred up the hornets nest in the 628 comments to this article on the A V Times. It is the same smoke and mirrors, except a whole lotta people are no longer believing him.

 

[Roy Payne]

"If he was still alive and unrepentant about some known sin, I would absolutely say the elders should rebuke him in front of the church."  So would I.

But Jeremy had left the church.  What was the church supposed to do?  Say, "Bro. Whitman, would you please come back to LBC just one more time so we can "rebuke you in front of the church"?

Tim Christoson spoke under incredible stress just hours after learning of indescribable tragedy.  Did he knowingly lie to a reporter?  Or did the reporter twist what he said to get a juicier-sounding, much more provocative quote?  None of us can say for sure, though such things have happened many, many times.

To vilify the church, Paul Chappell, and the IFB movement as a result is ludicrous at best and evil at worst.

Assuming many/most of those commenting on here are born-again believers, then one would expect us to obey Scripture, stop gossiping, stop accusing, and stop gleefully hoping for the worst.  Instead, our only Biblical response is to uphold ALL involved in heartfelt prayer.