John Piper on Guns

[praise_yeshua]

[quote author=rsc2a]Are you completely ignorant of early church history?

Nope. I know it better than you do.

If you say this...

If Christians hadn't literally fought to protect Christianity.... it wouldn't have survived. - PY

...and claim such is truth, this is just another example of where reality crashes into PY logic and reality loses again.
[/quote]

Regardless of what one thinks about the morality of the Crusades. They were vital to the overall survival of Christianity. They even set the stage for the Protestant Reformation.

 

[rsc2a]

Well, your god is evidently a lot smaller than the God revealed in Scripture.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well, your god is evidently a lot smaller than the God revealed in Scripture.

My God.... works within humanity. He even uses the evil will and heart of man to accomplish His will.

Obviously you're too smart to recognize this truth throughout Scriptures.

Are you going to show me some love or not? I honestly think you hate me. You'd probably put a bullet in me if you got the chance.

 

[fishinnut]

That is not the only subject the Piper is all wet on. I sent what Piper wrote to my wife, asked her to read it & then asked her if she'd like to have him protecting her as a husband. Her answer was, "He'd probably be hiding behind the toilet in the bathroom if someone broke into his house."

 

[Mr. Hall]

Piper's whole treatise on the subject is best summarized in this paragraph:

"The issue is not primarily about when and if a Christian may ever use force in self-defense, or the defense of one?s family or friends. There are significant situational ambiguities in the answer to that question. The issue is about the whole tenor and focus and demeanor and heart-attitude of the Christian life.  Does it accord with the New Testament to encourage the attitude that says, ?I have the power to kill you in my pocket, so don?t mess with me??  My answer is, No."

 

[Ransom]

A Moron can't help but be a moron.

Law of Yeezy #1: Yeezy is never wrong. Ever.
Corollary #1: Anyone who contradicts What Yeezy Thinks is not merely wrong, but morally and/or intellectually deficient.

Yeezy can't help but be Yeezy.

 

[rsc2a]

Well, we have "learned" the Crusades were vital to the survival of Christianity.

 

[Ransom]

Piper's point:

My main concern in this article is with the appeal to students that stirs them up to have the mindset: Let?s all get guns and teach them a lesson if they come here. The concern is the forging of a disposition in Christians to use lethal force, not as policemen or soldiers, but as ordinary Christians in relation to harmful adversaries.

In other words: The question is not whether legitimate self-defense is a lawful use of force for the Christian (Piper allows that it might be). It's whether it's legitimately Christian to pack heat and basically dare someone to try you.

Is he arguing that Christians ought to be pacifists, or that they ought to be peaceful? I'd argue the latter.

The weakness of his argument is in his later points, where it appears that he is conflating violence due to criminality and persecution. I'd say there's a major difference between someone attacking me for my wallet, or for my faith, and they would require different responses.

 

[Ransom]

true...... but most physical attacks occur quickly and without warning..... and with very few words exchanged other than the most base and gutteral obscenities used to enhance the intimidation factor......... how is one to know why they are being attacked in every case?......

I'd argue that the two kinds of attacks or violence are of different kinds: crime requires the element of surprise, for example, whereas persecution requires the power of the state or something similar - you can probably see it coming in the culture.

 

[Recovering IFB]

My God.... works within humanity. He even uses the evil will and heart of man to accomplish His will.

spoken like a true Calvinist ;D 

 

[praise_yeshua]

A Moron can't help but be a moron.

Law of Yeezy #1: Yeezy is never wrong. Ever.
Corollary #1: Anyone who contradicts What Yeezy Thinks is not merely wrong, but morally and/or intellectually deficient.

Yeezy can't help but be Yeezy.

I love you Ransom. We are so much alike.

Piper has proven time and time again he's a moron. I thought it was hilarious how he just had to call Falwell because he's carries a like rank at Bethel. Piper just loves the preeminence. He's such a diva. So are you darling!!!

 

[Ransom]

Piper has proven time and time again he's a moron.

Well of course he is. After all, he has the audacity to disagree with you, which has to be prima facie evidence of severe mental retardation, right?

Get a new schtick, Yeezy. This "everyone but me is defective" routine makes you a one-note banjo.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Piper has proven time and time again he's a moron.

Well of course he is. After all, he has the audacity to disagree with you, which has to be prima facie evidence of severe mental retardation, right?

Get a new schtick, Yeezy. This "everyone but me is defective" routine makes you a one-note banjo.

You've disagreed with me for years and I've never called you a moron. Piper is a idiot. You're neither. You're hypothesis is wrong.

 

[Ransom]

You've disagreed with me for years and I've never called you a moron. Piper is a idiot. You're neither. You're hypothesis is wrong.

That I am the one apparent exception doesn't disprove the general rule. Obviously you have a complete lack of self-awareness to boot.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You've disagreed with me for years and I've never called you a moron. Piper is a idiot. You're neither. You're hypothesis is wrong.

That I am the one apparent exception doesn't disprove the general rule. Obviously you have a complete lack of self-awareness to boot.

You're not the only exception. There are too many to number. Obviously you're so self centered that you can't recognize your surroundings.