Killer Creepers

T

TruthBearer

Guest
September 15, 2014
Dear Pastors:
What we have to do in ourselves as individuals is to make sure we do not allow "killer creepers" to overtake us and kill our effectiveness. We have to do that in our marriages between husbands and wives, in our homes between parents and children, in our churches between us and our people, and in our country also. Now, I am going somewhere, so please bear with me.

In jungles where the GOOD LORD has allowed me to go, I have seen these "killer creepers." A little bird may have eaten a few of the KC’s brown berries and then rested on a leafy perch somewhere in the jungle. The meat of the berries was soon assimilated, and the little bird passed out the undigested seeds. One such seed would have fallen at the foot of the mighty tree where it had rested. Then the rains came and the little seed sprouted and a baby "killer" was born, no bigger at first than the nail on your little finger.

When about a month old it puts out its tendrils, thus revealing itself as a plant that creeps and supports its weight on other plants and trees. It grows and grows and by the end of the first year it has perhaps climbed a third of the way up the big tree which has sheltered it. But its stem is still no thicker than your middle finger. Within two years the KC will reach the top of the tree, whence its tendrils reach out hungrily towards the neighboring forest giants, all of them, like the host tree, possibly two or three centuries old. And now the stem of the KC is about the thickness of your wrist.

Now, that KC grows year by year, with the tendril then being as thick as your thigh, then your whole body, then larger and larger. Its weight is colossal. It winds even tighter and tighter around its host, so finally the host and it’s "sucker" [John Rawlings used to preach much about suckers,] both, in a windstorm, crash to the ground. From amid the fallen debris the tendrils of the "killer" reach out voraciously towards the stems of neighboring trees, there to repeat the grim story and to earn its name of "killer" over and over again.

From Nepal comes this story:
A foreign invader from South America is rampantly choking the life out of the Chitwan National Park. Dubbed: ‘mile-a-minute’ weed, this non-native creeper has already covered a vast area of the 932-square-kilometer park, a major tourist attraction and UNESCO World Heritage Site.

Spreading across the jungles and covering plants and trees, the climber vine plants (Mikania Mikrantha) have become a real pest over the last decade: leaving huge trees completely covered and lying dead beneath it, as it blocks out the sunlight.

The lush jungles of the Chitwan National Park in Southern Nepal are also one of the last remaining refuges of the endangered royal Bengal tiger and the rare one-horned rhino, putting them under further threat as food supplies are depleted through the invasion of the creeper weed. Leaving conservationists worried the huge wildlife reserve is under threat from this foreign invader, destroying its delicate eco-system, with potentially catastrophic implications for the animals that live there.

Biologist Naresh Subedi says the plant, mikania mikrantha, has already covered more than a third of prime rhino habitat in the park, and believes the impact on wildlife could be devastating.

"Mikania is ranked as one of the most invasive plants in the world," said Subedi, who works for the National Trust for Nature Conservation (NTNC) an IUCN Member organization (often in partnership with other national and international institutions), as well as local communities in Chitwan.

"It can smother, choke and pull over other plants, it causes soil erosion, and no single technique has yet proved effective for its long-term control".
"More than a third of the rhino habitat in Chitwan has now been covered to a greater or lesser degree, posing a serious threat to the population."

Yesterday I sent you the story about Unit 8200’s 43 IDF RESERVISTS trying to do against Israel what the Killer Creepers do in the Jungle ---CHOKE THE VERY LIFE FROM THE COUNTRY. You read how Defense Minister Moshe "Boogie" Ya’alon stated that these "Military intelligence types," [they are comparable to our US National Security Agency,] accused the group of conscientious objectors from an elite IDF intelligence unit of "contributing to the de-legitimization of Israel.
Ken Shaver told me last week how a "killer creeper" split a friend of mine’s church in Florida. I have known the "killer creeper" since he was a wee lad. What a shame.

I do not know if Jewish Synagogues go through "splits!" But, I know for sure that Baptist Churches do. Dr. Ed Johnson said it is all about one word "power." I will add to what Dr. Johnson said the word "control." Folks want to "control" themselves and want no one over them.

In this Unit 8200 split which the conscientious objectors are attempting to pull off in Israel, like the Killer Creeper, it is all about "power and control."
What we have to do in our Churches is get people in charge of "various ministries" such as THE BUS MINISTRY, THE EDUCABLE SLOW MINISTRY, THE TEEN MINISTRY, who are all about doing a work for the GLORY OF GOD, and not for the GLORY OF THEMSELVES.
R. J. Saladin now heads up our Teen Department at our Church. We pray all the time for "Revival." I am sure you preachers do also. The best teen group I have seen in a long, long time is at Chris Fugate’s Church in Hazard, Ky, in that BAR turned into a Church. My oh my, how Chris’ teens impressed me with their ‘note-taking’ and attention to my preaching.
R.J. is from Brother Bragg’s church in Missiouri. His parents were here yesterday. We had two teenagers saved yesterday. I told his parents "R.J. has done more with our teens since May than we have had happen all the time since Dr. Bob Ross gave up the reins of being our youth director a few years ago." My, oh my, I am proud of the many teens who have been saved and are taking good notes in SS and Church now. What a blessing. They remind me of Chris Fugate’s teens.
We simply must keep the "killer creepers" out of our marriages, our homes, our churches, and our countries. May the Lord God of the Hebrews help us.
Pray that these 43 IDF reservists of Unit 8200 won’t be able to split the nation of Israel.
PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM!!!!
JIM VINEYARD
YEDIDIM OF ISRAEL
 
My take on Vineyards letter:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Tony Keeton was a useless Youth Director
[*]The teens in the youth department recently have been useless teens with no spirituality to them
[*]The same teens instantly became awesome due to the new Youth Director
[*]The Crownovers were in "THE EDUCABLE SLOW MINISTRY" for themselves
[*]Same for Bro Jones currently the WHBC Bus Director
[*]The problem in churches is not the Power/Control freak pastors it is the members, Never the pastors
[*]If you don't "take notes and listen to JAV's preaching" you are wicked.
[*]Since he did not mention it I guess the preacher texting young ladies and chasing after them trying to get into their skirts is not part of being "Killer Creepers"
[/list]
 
Just me said:
My take on Vineyards letter:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Tony Keeton was a useless Youth Director
[*]The teens in the youth department recently have been useless teens with no spirituality to them
[*]The same teens instantly became awesome due to the new Youth Director
[*]The Crownovers were in "THE EDUCABLE SLOW MINISTRY" for themselves
[*]Same for Bro Jones currently the WHBC Bus Director
[*]The problem in churches is not the Power/Control freak pastors it is the members, Never the pastors
[*]If you don't "take notes and listen to JAV's preaching" you are wicked.
[*]Since he did not mention it I guess the preacher texting young ladies and chasing after them trying to get into their skirts is not part of being "Killer Creepers"
[/list]

9. Vineyard still has his eyes on the teens. I wonder if he notices the boys?
 
Tanner said:
Did Tony Keeton leave recently?


Yeppers!!  Toms own brother in law walked over Tommy Boy's sexual misconduct that WHBC is trying desperately to play down and even cover up!!!
 
Just me said:
My take on Vineyards letter:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Tony Keeton was a useless Youth Director
[*]The teens in the youth department recently have been useless teens with no spirituality to them
[*]The same teens instantly became awesome due to the new Youth Director
[*]The Crownovers were in "THE EDUCABLE SLOW MINISTRY" for themselves
[*]Same for Bro Jones currently the WHBC Bus Director
[*]The problem in churches is not the Power/Control freak pastors it is the members, Never the pastors
[*]If you don't "take notes and listen to JAV's preaching" you are wicked.
[*]Since he did not mention it I guess the preacher texting young ladies and chasing after them trying to get into their skirts is not part of being "Killer Creepers"
[/list]

8.  No, just a creep.  :)
 
Just me said:
My take on Vineyards letter:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Tony Keeton was a useless Youth Director
[*]The teens in the youth department recently have been useless teens with no spirituality to them
[*]The same teens instantly became awesome due to the new Youth Director
[*]The Crownovers were in "THE EDUCABLE SLOW MINISTRY" for themselves
[*]Same for Bro Jones currently the WHBC Bus Director
[*]The problem in churches is not the Power/Control freak pastors it is the members, Never the pastors
[*]If you don't "take notes and listen to JAV's preaching" you are wicked.
[*]Since he did not mention it I guess the preacher texting young ladies and chasing after them trying to get into their skirts is not part of being "Killer Creepers"
[/list]

I got all of those things out of the letter too, but wanted to see if others picked up on them. I did highlight the people don't want to be controlled line.

I thought there was a verse or two in the Bible about Christ being in control of our lives and having liberty and freedom from bondage of other masters. I guess none of those verses comply with the Vineyard agenda.

 
Tanner said:
Did Tony Keeton leave recently?

He left about a month or two ago or when all the others left is what I had heard.
 
Once again taking shots at those that have done right by making them look like the enemy.

And we wonder why people don't want Christianity. Sad
 
Citadel of Truth said:
Just me said:
My take on Vineyards letter:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Tony Keeton was a useless Youth Director
[*]The teens in the youth department recently have been useless teens with no spirituality to them
[*]The same teens instantly became awesome due to the new Youth Director
[*]The Crownovers were in "THE EDUCABLE SLOW MINISTRY" for themselves
[*]Same for Bro Jones currently the WHBC Bus Director
[*]The problem in churches is not the Power/Control freak pastors it is the members, Never the pastors
[*]If you don't "take notes and listen to JAV's preaching" you are wicked.
[*]Since he did not mention it I guess the preacher texting young ladies and chasing after them trying to get into their skirts is not part of being "Killer Creepers"
[/list]

9. Vineyard still has his eyes on the teens. I wonder if he notices the boys?

10. Ken Shaver and Chris Fugate are still in Vineyard's back pocket.
 
JustABigKid said:
Once again taking shots at those that have done right by making them look like the enemy.

And we wonder why people don't want Christianity. Sad


5) Ridicule is man's most potent weapon (Alinsky 1972: 128).
 
They are praying all the time for "Revival."  I pray for it without the quotation marks. The revival I am praying for is preceded by humility, repentance from our wicked ways, and seeking God's face. The "Revival" he mentioned has something to do with control. 
 
"... I have seen these "killer creepers." A little bird may have eaten a few of the KC’s brown berries and then rested on a leafy perch somewhere in the jungle. The meat of the berries was soon assimilated, and the little bird passed out the undigested seeds."

I wonder if WHBC will start screening their prospective new members (like Scientology and other cults) to ensure no Killer Creepers infiltrate the compound and bring it down or if someday they will realize the killer creeper is standing behind the pulpit.
 
Discombobulated Ramblings.

Attempting to impress his audience with some superior intellect and superior political positioning that he believes he has.  Supposedly, we are supposed to be so overcome by his superior intellect and political positioning that we then become dumb and agree with whatever he states.  In reality, his points are poorly interwoven and the reader finds difficulty attempting to ascertain whatever JV is attempting to proclaim.  This letter belongs on Pinterest under the "What I think I sound like / What I really sound like" category.

How about this for an analogy?  There are certain old men who are creeping into the church that Christ built and overpowering the people with their pride.  They have sucked the very Christianity out of the church, using the funds for their own personal gain, rather than the good of the church.  See?  I can do it too.

Oh - and Chris Fugate?  sure.  Well, JV is impressed with people who are paying attention to him.
 
My take on the letter,
More lies and deceit sprinkled with a little bit of truth. More lies than truth. This is to be expected from a Dead Cult Society that's grasping for one last breath.
JAV, Why do you continue to pander the lie that your church had a split?
Your church did not go through a split. NO WAY NOT EVEN CLOSE. But you keep insinuating that lie JAV so the few that might be in your circle of despair will feel sorry for you and your puppet.

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE contacted me or my family to take sides and split the church. I have seen many of the good people that left WHBC and ALL agree and I assure you that NO ONE contacted them to leave either. JAV, That's the definition of a split.
Here's what happened to your church, JAV.
The good people that were faithful followers of the LORD, heeded to God's call and will for their lives and their families lives. They left because they love the LORD. They left because they knew they had NOT been spiritually fed, we were absolutely starving for God's Word to be preached to us. We did not trully realize how bad we were starving until we actually were fed with God's Word somewhere else other than WHBC. They left because they saw through the smoke and mirrors that YOU tried to display. They knew that Tom lied and is still lying about his attempt at many affairs that was covered up all along. They saw and still see how YOU try to wreck peoples lives and drive wedges into families that have left. They also saw the lies, deceit, manipulation, appearance of EVIL, arrogance and pride flowing from the pulpit of Tom and the chair in which you still sit located in the center row back right side of the auditorium that still has a sign reserved for YOU. Not to mention the "table of arrogance and pride" in the front center of the cafeteria where you and your cronies sit thinking that you are as better than all sitting in front of you.

We also see that YOU JAV are the very "Creeper Killer" himself. You said it best in your own letter and even bolded the letters for all to see  "Folks want to control themselves and want no one over them, It's all about power and control" Well JAV, That fits you to a tee. Perfectly said.

JAV, Have you noticed I keep mentioning YOUR church, that's for a good reason. Sadly You have stripped it from being God's church. That is evident and plain as day for all to see.

Why do you continue to promote the staff to dis-associate themselves from those that left and are trully following God's will? Remember JAV, Tom, Deacons and Staff, your either ON GOD"S SIDE OR ON THE WRONG SIDE. Your rejection to those that are in God's will puts you directly on the wrong side.
I have so much more to say but time has run out.
 
Cicero said:
My take on the letter,
More lies and deceit sprinkled with a little bit of truth. More lies than truth. This is to be expected from a Dead Cult Society that's grasping for one last breath.
JAV, Why do you continue to pander the lie that your church had a split?
Your church did not go through a split. NO WAY NOT EVEN CLOSE. But you keep insinuating that lie JAV so the few that might be in your circle of despair will feel sorry for you and your puppet.

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE contacted me or my family to take sides and split the church. I have seen many of the good people that left WHBC and ALL agree and I assure you that NO ONE contacted them to leave either. JAV, That's the definition of a split.

Good take on the letter.

I don't agree with your definition of a split. I think that anytime a significant portion of a church leaves; say 40% or more, that's a split.  Maybe even 1/3, or 33% would constitute a split.

Here's what happened to your church, JAV.
The good people that were faithful followers of the LORD, heeded to God's call and will for their lives and their families lives. They left because they love the LORD. They left because they knew they had NOT been spiritually fed, we were absolutely starving for God's Word to be preached to us. We did not truly realize how bad we were starving until we actually were fed with God's Word somewhere else other than WHBC.

The last two sentences were a "WOW" for me... that's EXACTLY what I went through; I hadn't realized how many messages we had been hearing that were really just the pastor letting off steam on some subject.  Some verse in the Bible was used as a launching point into the pastor's tirade of the week, or of a list of his opinions about how to do things.  Very seldom was there actual Bible teaching.  When we got out and came to a different church that actually taught the Scriptures, it was manna from heaven.  Must also say a thanks to Tom Brennan for the really good "39 Years..." message that really helped clarify this.


They left because they saw through the smoke and mirrors that YOU tried to display. They knew that Tom lied and is still lying about his attempt at many affairs that was covered up all along.

I don't know if they were an attempt at many affairs or not; in  my opinion, that is subjective extrapolation.


They saw and still see how YOU try to wreck peoples lives and drive wedges into families that have left. They also saw the lies, deceit, manipulation, appearance of EVIL, arrogance and pride flowing from the pulpit of Tom and the chair in which you still sit located in the center row back right side of the auditorium that still has a sign reserved for YOU. Not to mention the "table of arrogance and pride" in the front center of the cafeteria where you and your cronies sit thinking that you are as better than all sitting in front of you.

We also see that YOU JAV are the very "Creeper Killer" himself. You said it best in your own letter and even bolded the letters for all to see  "Folks want to control themselves and want no one over them, It's all about power and control" Well JAV, That fits you to a tee. Perfectly said.

Yes, he seemed very familiar with the subject.  He knows well what it is all about.


JAV, Have you noticed I keep mentioning YOUR church, that's for a good reason. Sadly You have stripped it from being God's church. That is evident and plain as day for all to see.

Why do you continue to promote the staff to dis-associate themselves from those that left and are trully following God's will? Remember JAV, Tom, Deacons and Staff, your either ON GOD"S SIDE OR ON THE WRONG SIDE. Your rejection to those that are in God's will puts you directly on the wrong side.

Nothing else to say, but thanks for the analysis.
 
Walt said:
Cicero said:
They left because they saw through the smoke and mirrors that YOU tried to display. They knew that Tom lied and is still lying about his attempt at many affairs that was covered up all along.

I don't know if they were an attempt at many affairs or not; in  my opinion, that is subjective extrapolation.

For those who know the "subject" it is very easy to see the extrpolation exactly as Cicero stated.
 
Just me said:
Walt said:
Cicero said:
They left because they saw through the smoke and mirrors that YOU tried to display. They knew that Tom lied and is still lying about his attempt at many affairs that was covered up all along.

I don't know if they were an attempt at many affairs or not; in  my opinion, that is subjective extrapolation.

For those who know the "subject" it is very easy to see the extrapolation exactly as Cicero stated.

But to be just (Micah 6:8), he needs to be judged on what he did, not what someone thinks he was trying to do, or planning to do, or would have done.

The texts are unwise and inappropriate.  If this were the only incident, I would not vote to remove him as pastor. However, given the previous history, and the fact that over a dozen women say that he has done similar things, or made them feel uncomfortable, that (in my opinion), tips the scale so that I would vote to remove him as pastor.  If I were a member.  If they had let it come to a vote.
 
Walt said:
If this were the only incident, I would not vote to remove him as pastor.

This begs the question, if this was his only incident and he was texting your wife, would you still want him as your pastor?
 
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