Killer Creepers

[Cicero]

Walt thanks for the feedback.
I do want to clarify a church split just for a clear understanding from my point of view. This happens when an individual or a group of people has a conflict with the leader of the church. If the conflict is not resolved they then solicited as many members as will to pull away from the church (or split the church) into another single church.
This didn't happen at WHBC. Over half the good people of WHBC followed the will of God for their lives  and vacated completely on their own with ZERO human influence. They also found theirselves in many different churches throughout the OKC area and NOT one single church. This is not a church split in my opinion. There was TWO people that caused the mass exodus and it was Tom Vineyard and JAV. I might as well throw in the "yes man deacons" too

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Over half the good people of WHBC followed the will of God for their lives  and vacated completely on their own with ZERO human influence. They also found theirselves in many different churches throughout the OKC area and NOT one single church. This is not a church split in my opinion.

This is a very valid point. They didn't leave one church in order to start another. That would be a textbook church split.

 

[TruthBearer]

That has always been my definition of a church split, when a group of members leave and start their own church.

WHBC in my opinion did not split as ole Jimbo (aka Rambo) mentions in his letter they had a large number of individuals come to a decision separately on their own not to attend WHBC anymore not as a group.

Stating that the church had a split implies a conspiracy against Tommy Boy by a group of members that (as he has said before) they left because they had a grudge against Tommy Boy and/or ole Jimbo.

All their responses have to do with how it affects their church not Christ church.

Tommy Boy thought we were going to leave before we left and never once came by to see why or if there was a problem, he just said we must have a grudge against him. I would bet that he has not attempted to talk to any of the members that recently left to explain his "innocence" to them to get them to come back. After all if he is innocent why wouldn't he attempt to prove it to members on a personal basis that have been attending there all their life from childhood to adulthood?

I am only guessing but I think the reason he has not contacted anyone that has left in the past several years is because he cannot justify anything he has done even with the spin he puts using Bible verses.

It is a shame when a Pastor cannot defend himself with Bible verses and Biblical principals. When they get to this point it is time for them to leave.

 

[JustABigKid]

That has always been my definition of a church split, when a group of members leave and start their own church.

WHBC in my opinion did not split as ole Jimbo (aka Rambo) mentions in his letter they had a large number of individuals come to a decision separately on their own not to attend WHBC anymore not as a group.

Stating that the church had a split implies a conspiracy against Tommy Boy by a group of members that (as he has said before) they left because they had a grudge against Tommy Boy and/or ole Jimbo.

All their responses have to do with how it affects their church not Christ church.

Tommy Boy thought we were going to leave before we left and never once came by to see why or if there was a problem, he just said we must have a grudge against him. I would bet that he has not attempted to talk to any of the members that recently left to explain his "innocence" to them to get them to come back. After all if he is innocent why wouldn't he attempt to prove it to members on a personal basis that have been attending there all their life from childhood to adulthood?

I am only guessing but I think the reason he has not contacted anyone that has left in the past several years is because he cannot justify anything he has done even with the spin he puts using Bible verses.

It is a shame when a Pastor cannot defend himself with Bible verses and Biblical principals. When they get to this point it is time for them to leave.

I think the reason he has not contacted any of them is because he thinks he is better than them, he thinks he is right and they are wrong, and he will just find someone to replace them, and they can go live their miserable lives that God will not bless.

It would mean to let go of his ego to "stoop" to their level.

 

[TruthBearer]

An email that was sent to me:

Looks like Jim is right on schedule executing his next cult tactic. First it was "grudge bearing, bitter, unforgiving people are out to get me, my boys and my church." Next it was "pure evil is going to show up and destroy all the people who went against the self appointed man a god."
Those two tactics didn't scare everyone back in so he moved on to "so and so has done more for this ministry in 30 minutes than so and so did in all those years." Actually this tactic, comparing/shaming, is one of his favorites and really translates to him throwing a tantrum because he lost control. This is by no means the last tactic. 
One of the most vile tactics will be spreading lies about ex cult members in hopes of destroying their reputations wherever they go. The upside of this is that it always comes back to haunt him, which is probably why he is a drug addict. Jim did all this and more when courageous people tried to make him accountable for preying from his office and the pulpit. Jim did this when courageous people refused to be a part of the cult cover up for Paul. Jim is doing it now when courageous people have refused to be a part of cult cover up for Tom. Anyone seeing a trend here? 
Oh, and him spouting souls saved is exactly what we should expect him to do at this point to try to convince everyone that Ichabod has not been written over that place when we all know it has.
Too bad the ladies that Tom HAS made advances towards will never speak up for whatever reason...afraid no one will believe them, ashamed, guilt etc. Yes, they are out there.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Walter....you seems to have missed this question. I reposted it here for your convenience and for our understanding.

If this were the only incident, I would not vote to remove him as pastor.

This begs the question, if this was his only incident and he was texting your wife, would you still want him as your pastor?

 

[Walt]

Walter....you seems to have missed this question. I reposted it here for your convenience and for our understanding.

If this were the only incident, I would not vote to remove him as pastor.

This begs the question, if this was his only incident and he was texting your wife, would you still want him as your pastor?

I saw it; I've been thinking about it.

My understanding is that the young lady was not married, so the comparison is not exactly fair; it's hard to shift this to my situation.  My wife would have told me about it at the beginning with the first text, and, as I have in the past when I thought the pastor was being inappropriate, I would have gone to him.  (A previous occurrence was not like this - the pastor said something insulting about her from the pulpit and I immediately confronted him - he said (naturally) that he was "just joking", but since I had taken it amiss, he would not do it again).

This situation went on longer that we would have allowed it, so it's hard to say.  It would be easier to think of a college age daughter.  I probably would give him the benefit of the doubt, but be well on the alert for anything else.