KJV class at Bible college

[TidesofTruth]

I think I'm beginning to understand him. He speaks respectfully of his current leadership - until that leadership is gone at which point he tells the entire world that he violently disagreed with 95% of what they did.

I am incredibly thankful I am not his pastor...

Or at least his ex-pastor  ;D

I was concerned about this statement, because I have been highly critical of the HAC pastor, who seemed to blindly follow all of the worst things regarding Jack Hyles (as documented in the wonderful 39 Years message).  Because it was taught that the pastor is untouchable (like Elisha), I would not criticize him.  But I've always tried to be respectful to those with whom I disagree. But I think I am correct in criticizing this man.

Could you at least identify with more clarity (By initials even) who you are talking about in the above statement.

No; it's nobody anyone would know - just another pastor who blindly followed Jack Hyles, and adopted the worst practices.  God eventually opened my eyes to the errors and led me away.  Who it is doesn't matter.

ok I thought you were speaking of FBCH pastors.  NP

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

While I was at HAC, I was always told that the KJV is the only Bible we should use. It's kind of sad that I never had a class about it. Did any of you in the previous generations at HAC have a class on the KJV?

I left HAC in 1987 and could tell you that since Grandma Hyles had used the KJV, that was reason enough for me to use it. That is about it. I hear in later years there was better teaching on the issue but could not say what kind of.

 

[bgwilkinson]

While I was at HAC, I was always told that the KJV is the only Bible we should use. It's kind of sad that I never had a class about it. Did any of you in the previous generations at HAC have a class on the KJV?

I left HAC in 1987 and could tell you that since Grandma Hyles had used the KJV, that was reason enough for me to use it. That is about it. I hear in later years there was better teaching on the issue but could not say what kind of.

There was better teaching on the Bible with more honesty and less mystic thinking in the 50s and 60s.
Here are some examples of Bible Correcting by Bro. Hyles. This is the Bro. Hyles I grew to love and respect before he went off the deep end into the swamp of KJVO.

Honesty in Bible teaching.

Here are just a few quotes from his series on Revelation that are characteristic of the whole book.

This is what I grew to love about Bro. Hyles' teaching of the Bible. KJVOs will call this Bible correcting but in reality he was just improving upon the translation were it was wrong or unclear.

The Greek that Erasmus had for Revelation was poor at best as it came from a commentary and not from a Bible manuscript and was missing the last leaf which contained the last 6 verses of Revelation.
The last 6 verses were reverse translated from the Latin Vulgate giving a Greek text that is found in no other manuscript anywhere.

There are 22 chapters of these better translations but I am only doing chapter 1.

Here are the translation problems Bro. Hyles identified in chapter 1.

This book totally predates the whole KJVO kerfuffle. There were few if any KJVOs in Bro. Hyles early years.

Let's Study Revelation, By Jack Hyles.

Chapter 1

verse 1 Servant literally means “bond servant”

verse 3 "Shortly" in this verse means "speedily" or "surely." In other words there is no doubt that the
things written in this Book will come to pass.  The word "blessed" in this verse means happy, contented, etc.
Let us notice again the meaning of the word, "Revelation." It is called in the Greek
the "Apocalypse." This word means to manifest or reveal. Its twin word "Apocrypha" means
to conceal or hide. From these two words we have the true meaning of the Book: "TO
REVEAL THAT WHICH HAD BEEN HIDDEN."

verse 5  "UNTO HIM THAT LOVED US" should be " Unto him that loves us."
"AND WASHED US" can also be rendered " And freed us."

verse 6  "AND HATH MADE US KINGS" is better translated, " And hath made us a kingdom of priests."
"AMEN." The word means," Let it be done."

verse 7 "BEHOLD" means " look." John was probably carried away and shouted, " Look, He cometh."

verse 8 "AND COMPANION. " "Companion "really means "co-laborer. "
"AND PATIENCE OF JESUS CHRIST. " The literal translation is, "The patient waiting for Jesus
Christ. "

verse 10 "I WAS IN THE SPIRIT ON THE LORD’S DAY. " The word "was "is translated "became. "

verse 18 "FOR EVERMORE" means "Into the ages upon ages,” not ”through," but "into."

This book was from sermons in the early 50s. I was in Miller road for a few of these Wed. Bible studies.
This kind of Bible study was one of the factors leading me to FBCH.

You see he was not KJVO at all in the 50s and early 60s.

 

[IFB X-Files]

You see he was not KJVO at all in the 50s and early 60s.

I don't believe Hyles was EVER truly KJVO, at least in the sense that I would use the term.  But for the sake of argument being KJVO was really never an issue in the 50's.  After all, the only bibles commonly available (other than Catholic versions) during the 50's would have been the RV of 1881, the ASV of 1901 and the RSV of 1952.  (Yes, there were other versions done but very rare)  I'm sure if Hyles was aware of the corruption in the RSV of changing "virgin" to young woman" he would have rejected it, as most did.  The issue didn't start to come to the forefront until the release of the NASV in the 60's.  Then the floodgates opened.  Odd that's the same decade as the Civil Rights Act and the Beatles.  America has been in constant decline ever since.

 

[ExFundy]

Southern baptist are not kjvo. From what I heard second baptist was originally southern baptist church. Many hyles followers have taken southern baptist churches and have voted to become independent. The roots usually grow back.

 

[RAIDER]

This is what I grew to love about Bro. Hyles' teaching of the Bible. KJVOs will call this Bible correcting but in reality he was just improving upon the translation were it was wrong or unclear.

Is this the same position that your current pastor holds to?

 

[kaba]

While I was at HAC, I was always told that the KJV is the only Bible we should use. It's kind of sad that I never had a class about it. Did any of you in the previous generations at HAC have a class on the KJV?

HAC wasn't KJVO until the 90's.

One of the best books written on the issue, was written by a HAC professor.
"Final Authority", by William P. Grady.

He taught, while I was there, but not on the KJV preference of the institution.

HAC was, and still is TRO, but recommended the RV/ASV as well, which aren't TR based.

Believe it or not, HAC and Jack Hyles had a different opinion on the Scripture, by the late 80's.

I was there from 82 to 86, the only Bible used was the KJV

 

[bgwilkinson]

Southern baptist are not kjvo. From what I heard second baptist was originally southern baptist church. Many hyles followers have taken southern baptist churches and have voted to become independent. The roots usually grow back.

Quote
"The roots usually grow back."


How true.

Mrs. Hyles lived with the man for 50 years and IFBx never took root with her.

She went back to her Southern Baptist roots at the premier SBC church in Dallas.

If IFBx didn't stick with the mans's wife, then who will stick with it?

I am historic Particular Baptist not IFB or IFBx.

I was never IFB or IFBx when I came to FBCH.

I'm with Mrs. Hyles.

FBCH is an independent organization not affiliated with any other organization, I'm just fine with that.

I'm not so sure even Bro. Hyles was really IFBx, people just thought he was and it was good for promoting the college. People projected on him what they wanted him to be.

 

[ExFundy]

Do the staff for Eric capaci use kjv exclusively? Not putting everyone in the same boat who attended the college. But obviously bus routes were more important than teaching kjo.

 

[RAIDER]

Do the staff for Eric capaci use kjv exclusively? Not putting everyone in the same boat who attended the college. But obviously bus routes were more important than teaching kjo.

Capaci has changed so much I don't think he knows.  I'm pretty sure he still preaches out of the KJV.  I have heard that some of his staff may not be KJVO.  With the direction he is quickly heading it won't be long until it changes.

 

[ExFundy]

Isaiah 50:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.

Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
   
  If you don't believe kjv is inspired word for word, then which bible is inspired?
  If you believe only the originals are inspired, you are calling God a liar!!!!

  The lords church has continued for over 2000 years. The Jewish people have survived. But I guess God can't preserve His Inspired Words.

 

[FSSL]

Why did you choose the moniker "Exfundy?"

 

[prophet]

Perhaps because his socks no longer match?

 

[bgwilkinson]

While I was at HAC, I was always told that the KJV is the only Bible we should use. It's kind of sad that I never had a class about it. Did any of you in the previous generations at HAC have a class on the KJV?

HAC wasn't KJVO until the 90's.

One of the best books written on the issue, was written by a HAC professor.
"Final Authority", by William P. Grady.

You're kidding - I purchased that book at the recommendation of my pastor, back when I thought HAC was great.

The first part was standard KJV defense of merely attacking the character of those that believed differently, and then, somewhere in the 2nd half, he became entirely conspiracy whacko.  It completely undermined the little credibility he had built up for me in the first part.

Terrible!

Your book review of Bill's book is spot on and very charitable.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Isaiah 50:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.

Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
   
  If you don't believe kjv is inspired word for word, then which bible is inspired?
  If you believe only the originals are inspired, you are calling God a liar!!!!

  The lords church has continued for over 2000 years. The Jewish people have survived. But I guess God can't preserve His Inspired Words.

Context. Neither verse was mentioning any particular version. Besides, English wasn't around at that point in time so to use these Scriptures as proof texts, one would have to really stretch the intended context.

(I'm hoping the post was meant as sarcasm.)

 

[bgwilkinson]

Isaiah 50:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.

Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
   
  If you don't believe kjv is inspired word for word, then which bible is inspired?
  If you believe only the originals are inspired, you are calling God a liar!!!!

  The lords church has continued for over 2000 years. The Jewish people have survived. But I guess God can't preserve His Inspired Words.

Context. Neither verse was mentioning any particular version. Besides, English wasn't around at that point in time so to use these Scriptures as proof texts, one would have to really stretch the intended context.

(I'm hoping the post was meant as sarcasm.)

I thought it was sarcasm.

 

[prophet]

Isaiah 50:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.

Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
   
  If you don't believe kjv is inspired word for word, then which bible is inspired?
  If you believe only the originals are inspired, you are calling God a liar!!!!

  The lords church has continued for over 2000 years. The Jewish people have survived. But I guess God can't preserve His Inspired Words.

Context. Neither verse was mentioning any particular version. Besides, English wasn't around at that point in time so to use these Scriptures as proof texts, one would have to really stretch the intended context.

(I'm hoping the post was meant as sarcasm.)

Several hundred years of its effects on the English-speaking world has proven the KJV to be God's Word, as much as Jesus' 3 1/2 year ministry proved that He is God's Word, so your version comment is just an attempt at distraction.

You may add other, to what you think is "inspired", but no reasonably intelligent person would discount the KJV for any reason other than self-serving bias.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Several hundred years of its effects on the English-speaking world has proven the KJV to be God's Word, as much as Jesus' 3 1/2 year ministry proved that He is God's Word, so your version comment is just an attempt at distraction.

Since time is the main factor of proof, then I guess we can go with the Talmud as being "God's inspired Word". Or is it the "effects" you mention? I know of devoted Catholics whose Scriptures have changed their lives. It is pretty safe to say there is a probability of Mormons also.

You may add other, to what you think is "inspired", but no reasonably intelligent person would discount the KJV for any reason other than self-serving bias.

Actually, I thing that you "add" to what I think would be "inspired" but that is another argument for another day.

 

[rsc2a]

Then I vote for the Vulgate. It's got the KJV beaten hands down with the given criteria.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Then I vote for the Vulgate. It's got the KJV beaten hands down with the given criteria.

Good point.