KJV class at Bible college

ExFundy said:
Colossians 1:14 niv, takes out the blood.
Click to expand...

Here is a look at this issue from the other direction, that of using the NIV as the standard version.

People complain modern versions leave out words found in the KJV. The real question is, “is it in the original Hebrew and the original Greek”?

Here are a few places where the KJV comes up short when compared to the NIV.


KJV takes out "through Jesus Christ our Lord"

Jude verse 25, the NIV says that God gets glory "through Jesus Christ our Lord." In the KJV "through Jesus Christ our Lord" is missing.


KJV takes out, the "Holy Spirit".

Acts 4:25,  KJV has “by the mouth of thy servant David”. NIV “that God spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of David." The KJV leaves out  "Holy Spirit."


KJV takes out, "Of Jesus".

Acts 16:7 the KJV has, "the Spirit suffered them not." The NIV has, "the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to." "Of Jesus" is left out of the KJV.


KJV takes out, “of God”.

Philippians 1:14, NIV says the "word of God." The KJV only has "word." The KJV is missing “of God”


KJV takes out, “Christ".

Colossians 2:9, NIV says "in Christ".  KJV says "in Him." “Christ" is missing in the KJV.



Of course this is a ridiculous way to determine the proper renderings of the original languages in the versions we use.


Miles Smith explains to us what to use to determine proper renderings in versions of the Bible.

“They trusted in him that hath the key of David, opening and no man shutting: they prayed to the Lord the Father of our Lord, to the effect that S. Augustine did; O let thy Scriptures be my pure delight, let me not be deceived in them, neither let me deceive by them. In this confidence, and with this devotion did they assemble together; not too many, lest one should trouble another; and yet many, lest many things haply might escape them. If you aske what they had before them, truely it was the Hebrew text of the Olde Testament, theGreeke of the New. These are the two golden pipes, or rather conduits, where-through the olive branches emptie themselves into the golde. Saint Augustine calleth them precedent, or originall tongues; Saint Jerome, fountaines. The same Saint Jerome affirmeth, and Gratianhath not spared to put it into his Decree, That as the credit of the olde Bookes (he meaneth of the Old Testament) is to bee tryed by the Hebrewe Volumes, so of the New by the Greeke tongue, he meaneth by the originall Greeke. If trueth be to be tried by these tongues, then whence should a Translation be made, but out of them? These tongues, therefore, the Scriptures wee say in those tongues, wee set before us to translate, being the tongues wherein God was pleased to speake to his Church by his Prophets and Apostles. Neither did we run over the worke with that posting haste that the Septuagint did, if that be true which is reported of them, that they finished it in 72. dayes; neither were we barred or hindered from going over it againe, having once done it, like S. Jerome, if that be true which himselfe reporteth, that he could no sooner write any thing, but presently it was caught from him, and published, and he could not have leave to mend it: neither, to be short, were we the first that fell in hand with translating the Scripture into English, and consequently destitute of former helpes, as it is written of Origen, that hee was the first in a maner, that put his hand to write Commentaries upon the Scriptures, and therefore no marveile, if he overshot himselfe many times. None of these things: the worke hath not bene hudled up in 72. dayes, but hath cost the workemen, as light as it seemeth, the paines of twise seven times seventie two dayes and more: matters of such weight and consequence are to bee speeded with maturitie: for in a businesse of moment a man feareth not the blame of convenient slacknesse. Neither did wee thinke much to consult the Translators or Commentators, Chaldee, Hebrewe, Syrian, Greeke,or Latine, no nor the Spanish, French, Italian, or Dutch; neither did we disdaine to revise that which we had done, and to bring backe to the anvill that which we had hammered: but having and using as great helpes as were needfull, and fearing no reproch for slownesse, nor coveting praise for expedition, wee have at the length, through the good hand of the Lord upon us, brought the worke to that passe that you see.”
 
Bravo said:
Wow this has taken a disappointing turn. I'll try to be as kind as possible,...

If someone from FBC says nothing then they are a kool aid drinker, brain washed or "should have stood up and said something".

This is a discussion forum isn't it? A guy opines on a thread, regretfully reflects back on the years gone by and tries to be honest and now gets slammed for it?

I'll say this,... If you weren't/aren't here it's hard to understand what a good number of good people are going through. For some there is a real struggle to look back objectively now and look forward objectively.

I was a defender of Schaap back when, and tried to be fair and honest in my defense of him. But it came to a point where I couldn't defend what was going on anymore. That's a TOUGH crossroads to find yourself at. It's an internal struggle, but I think an honest one.

I don't know BG but I will give him the benefit of the doubt. If this makes me a bad guy in your eyes then okay.
Click to expand...

Schaap was showing LOTS of signs of narcissism as early as his first year as pastor of FBC, it's tough to sympathize with those who wouldn't see through him until after he had changed an impressionable young lady's life forever because he was a sex perv.

 
bgwilkinson said:
ExFundy said:
Colossians 1:14 niv, takes out the blood.
Click to expand...

Here is a look at this issue from the other direction, that of using the NIV as the standard version.

People complain modern versions leave out words found in the KJV. The real question is, “is it in the original Hebrew and the original Greek”?

Here are a few places where the KJV comes up short when compared to the NIV.

Jude verse 25, the NIV says that God gets glory "through Jesus Christ our Lord." In the KJV "through Jesus Christ our Lord" is missing.

Acts 4:25,  KJV has “by the mouth of thy servant David”. NIV “that God spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of David." The KJV leaves out  "Holy Spirit."

Acts 16:7 the KJV has, "the Spirit suffered them not." The NIV has, "the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to." "Of Jesus" is left out of the KJV.

Philippians 1:14, NIV says the "word of God." The KJV only has "word." The KJV is missing “of God”

Colossians 2:9, NIV says "in Christ".  KJV says "in Him." “Christ" is missing in the KJV.

Of course this is a ridiculous way to determine the proper renderings of the original languages in the versions we use.
Click to expand...

Seems to be a fair point!
 
Part 2


In an earlier post someone said they didn't think Bro. Hyles was doing Bible correcting.

Let me give you seven places where he used the words “is better translated” or “should be translated” in his commentary on Revelation that was compiled from Wed Bible studies at Miller Road in the 50s.

When I heard him speak in the 50s, 60s and 70s he frequently corrected the text,  giving what he considered a better English rendering of the Greek text. I believe Bro. Hyles was right to point out the places where the KJV could better be translated. He did not start to change until many years after I had first meet him.

He was most certainly not a KJVO in the 50s, 60s and 70s.  He did not start down the road of radical KJVO until the 80s after John Rice died.


Rev 1:6:
"AND HATH MADE US KINGS" is better translated, " And hath made us a kingdom of priests."

Rev 1:13:
"I KNOW...WHERE THOU DWELLEST, EVEN WHERE SATAN’S SEAT IS. " The word "seat "should be translated "throne. "

Rev  4:4:
"AND ROUND ABOUT THE THRONE WERE FOUR AND TWENTY SEATS. " The word "seats " is better translated "throne. "

Rev 9:1:
The fifth trumpet is sounded. Immediately John saw a star. "FALLING " is better translated "fallen. "

Rev 10:5-7:
The angels declares that time (better translated "delay ") should be no longer.

Rev 13:15:
"AND HE HAD POWER " is better translated, "And to him was given power. "

Rev 22:13-14:
"DO HIS COMMANDMENTS" should be translated, "wash their robes."

This is the kind of teaching you would have received from Bro. Hyles in a KJV class at HAC.
 
bgwilkinson said:
Part 2


In an earlier post someone said they didn't think Bro. Hyles was doing Bible correcting.

Let me give you seven places where he used the words “is better translated” or “should be translated” in his commentary on Revelation that was compiled from Wed Bible studies at Miller Road in the 50s.

When I heard him speak in the 50s, 60s and 70s he frequently corrected the text,  giving what he considered a better English rendering of the Greek text. I believe Bro. Hyles was right to point out the places where the KJV could better be translated. He did not start to change until many years after I had first meet him.

He was most certainly not a KJVO in the 50s, 60s and 70s.  He did not start down the road of radical KJVO until the 80s after John Rice died.


Rev 1:6:
"AND HATH MADE US KINGS" is better translated, " And hath made us a kingdom of priests."

Rev 1:13:
"I KNOW...WHERE THOU DWELLEST, EVEN WHERE SATAN’S SEAT IS. " The word "seat "should be translated "throne. "

Rev  4:4:
"AND ROUND ABOUT THE THRONE WERE FOUR AND TWENTY SEATS. " The word "seats " is better translated "throne. "

Rev 9:1:
The fifth trumpet is sounded. Immediately John saw a star. "FALLING " is better translated "fallen. "

Rev 10:5-7:
The angels declares that time (better translated "delay ") should be no longer.

Rev 13:15:
"AND HE HAD POWER " is better translated, "And to him was given power. "

Rev 22:13-14:
"DO HIS COMMANDMENTS" should be translated, "wash their robes."

This is the kind of teaching you would have received from Bro. Hyles in a KJV class at HAC.
Click to expand...

I agree with your post.  So, why did he change?
 
bgwilkinson said:
...someone who says...that there is one and only one version that is the Word of God...is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as it consigns all other Bible  versions as not being the Word of God.
Click to expand...

So, you're saying that being KJVO is the unpardonable sin?
 
bgwilkinson said:
Part 2


In an earlier post someone said they didn't think Bro. Hyles was doing Bible correcting.

Let me give you seven places where he used the words “is better translated” or “should be translated” in his commentary on Revelation that was compiled from Wed Bible studies at Miller Road in the 50s.

When I heard him speak in the 50s, 60s and 70s he frequently corrected the text,  giving what he considered a better English rendering of the Greek text. I believe Bro. Hyles was right to point out the places where the KJV could better be translated. He did not start to change until many years after I had first meet him.

He was most certainly not a KJVO in the 50s, 60s and 70s.  He did not start down the road of radical KJVO until the 80s after John Rice died.


Rev 1:6:
"AND HATH MADE US KINGS" is better translated, " And hath made us a kingdom of priests."

Rev 1:13:
"I KNOW...WHERE THOU DWELLEST, EVEN WHERE SATAN’S SEAT IS. " The word "seat "should be translated "throne. "

Rev  4:4:
"AND ROUND ABOUT THE THRONE WERE FOUR AND TWENTY SEATS. " The word "seats " is better translated "throne. "

Rev 9:1:
The fifth trumpet is sounded. Immediately John saw a star. "FALLING " is better translated "fallen. "

Rev 10:5-7:
The angels declares that time (better translated "delay ") should be no longer.

Rev 13:15:
"AND HE HAD POWER " is better translated, "And to him was given power. "

Rev 22:13-14:
"DO HIS COMMANDMENTS" should be translated, "wash their robes."

This is the kind of teaching you would have received from Bro. Hyles in a KJV class at HAC.
Click to expand...


You better speak to Bob Gray about this. He claims that jh absolutely never changed what he believed from his earliest years. He said he may have become stronger on certain issues but has ne ver changed any of his beliefs.
 
BALAAM said:
bgwilkinson said:
Part 2


In an earlier post someone said they didn't think Bro. Hyles was doing Bible correcting.

Let me give you seven places where he used the words “is better translated” or “should be translated” in his commentary on Revelation that was compiled from Wed Bible studies at Miller Road in the 50s.

When I heard him speak in the 50s, 60s and 70s he frequently corrected the text,  giving what he considered a better English rendering of the Greek text. I believe Bro. Hyles was right to point out the places where the KJV could better be translated. He did not start to change until many years after I had first meet him.

He was most certainly not a KJVO in the 50s, 60s and 70s.  He did not start down the road of radical KJVO until the 80s after John Rice died.


Rev 1:6:
"AND HATH MADE US KINGS" is better translated, " And hath made us a kingdom of priests."

Rev 1:13:
"I KNOW...WHERE THOU DWELLEST, EVEN WHERE SATAN’S SEAT IS. " The word "seat "should be translated "throne. "

Rev  4:4:
"AND ROUND ABOUT THE THRONE WERE FOUR AND TWENTY SEATS. " The word "seats " is better translated "throne. "

Rev 9:1:
The fifth trumpet is sounded. Immediately John saw a star. "FALLING " is better translated "fallen. "

Rev 10:5-7:
The angels declares that time (better translated "delay ") should be no longer.

Rev 13:15:
"AND HE HAD POWER " is better translated, "And to him was given power. "

Rev 22:13-14:
"DO HIS COMMANDMENTS" should be translated, "wash their robes."

This is the kind of teaching you would have received from Bro. Hyles in a KJV class at HAC.
Click to expand...


You better speak to Bob Gray about this. He claims that jh absolutely never changed what he believed from his earliest years. He said he may have become stronger on certain issues but has never changed any of his beliefs.
Click to expand...

lol

Clearly Bob never meet him or heard him speak in the 50s and 60s.

Has he never read Bro. Hyles commentary on Revelation?

Bro. Hyles was right down the line on Bible translations with his buddy John Rice.

It's hard to erase history completely although many have tried to revise it.

Some of us were alive when he was not KJVO at all.
 
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