Let's hear some success stories

[TruthBearer]

I am not trying to defend Bro Ross's actions or what he did. I have stated many times before my position on Bro Ross. He is a phoney in my books for talking about being courageous, taking a stand for what is right etc. when he himself doesn't do it.

I was just saying that there may be some glimmer of hope now that he is no longer working for the Vineyard's. Given time I hope he will change and become a good Pastor.

I too have heard him make comments like "they are not like us" that was the 'in thing' to say at WHBC and you could be one of the big boys if you repeated that line.

I have heard other associate pastor's say the same thing and once they left when they said that it took on a completely different meaning.

Bro Ross always wanted to be one of the big boys. Now that he is on his own and doesn't have to worry about retribution from JAV there is hope. It is not uncommon for people to say what their employer wants them to say (right or wrong). If you didn't tow the line at WHBC JAV would cut your pay, what little pay he paid out. Paying bills, buying food, supporting your family is a big deal to some people.

By his reluctance to come and preach for Tommy Boy shows a change that he may become deprogrammed since he has left.

I don't think his message is responsible for anyone staying there. Those that left did so before he came, those that stayed were already determined to stay. I believe his message was irrelevant to people's decision.

If we are all honest with ourselves we have all said things that supported WHBC idealology. Then one day the light came on. As I have posted before a drug addict doesn't know how bad they have made their life until they get away from their influences and get cleaned up.

Does anyone know of a member up there that had changed their minds about leaving after hearing Bro Ross's message?

 

[TruthBearer]

With all that being said that is why I think there could be some hope, he senses there is something wrong going on but isn't man enough to call the Vineyard's out.

Do you honestly think that is going to change anytime soon?

He's not the only Texan that falls into this category. How about Dodson or Way? Are they still swallowing everything that comes out of WHBC?

That I don't know it may be changing already. I know he towed the line at WH but his reluctance to come can be an indicator of change.

I don't know much about Dodson. Bro Way although he had alot of dealings with the Vineyard's I am not sure how he ran his church. But there were signs that he didn't swallo everything JAV taught or supported all his rules.

For one thing he had a beard and facial hair was forbidden for anyone that wanted to help at WHBC. You could not be on staff, teach a Sunday school class, sing in the choir, sing a special, be an usher, do parking lot duty etc if you a beard.

I alway wondered why they made an exception for Bro Way.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

I was just saying that there may be some glimmer of hope now that he is no longer working for the Vineyard's. Given time I hope he will change and become a good Pastor.

I do not fault you for this my brother. I too held out hope for him. I sincerely hope you are right and am proven to be wrong.

I guess this last episode finally made me realize that he would always tow the Vineyard party line. Reluctant or not he chose to go ahead and go and defend the reprehensible.

One of two things are happening here:
1. Ross is a died in the wool Vineyardite or
2. Vineyard is holding something very serious over Ross' head that he doesn't want to be made public. We've all heard about Vineyard's dossiers that he keeps on those he wants to manipulate. Unfortunately for those with skeletons those files will be passed to Junior someday.   

 

[TruthBearer]

I was just saying that there may be some glimmer of hope now that he is no longer working for the Vineyard's. Given time I hope he will change and become a good Pastor.

I do not fault you for this my brother. I too held out hope for him. I sincerely hope you are right and am proven to be wrong.

I guess this last episode finally made me realize that he would always tow the Vineyard party line. Reluctant or not he chose to go ahead and go and defend the reprehensible.

One of two things are happening here:
1. Ross is a died in the wool Vineyardite or
2. Vineyard is holding something very serious over Ross' head that he doesn't want to be made public. We've all heard about Vineyard's dossiers that he keeps on those he wants to manipulate. Unfortunately for those with skeletons those files will be passed to Junior someday. 

As JAV always said "Time will tell".

 

[JustABigKid]

I don't think his message is responsible for anyone staying there. Those that left did so before he came, those that stayed were already determined to stay. I believe his message was irrelevant to people's decision.

Does anyone know of a member up there that had changed their minds about leaving after hearing Bro Ross's message?

Yep sure do. I am not going to name names on here cause it is not fair to them but I have personally talked with a family that were on the fence about the whole situation. After Bro. Ross preached they said they weren't going anywhere they are just going to serve God and forgive Tom.

His message has for sure swayed people into staying, looking the other way, or down right dismissing the accusations as false.

 

[JustABigKid]

With all that being said that is why I think there could be some hope, he senses there is something wrong going on but isn't man enough to call the Vineyard's out.

Do you honestly think that is going to change anytime soon?

He's not the only Texan that falls into this category. How about Dodson or Way? Are they still swallowing everything that comes out of WHBC?

That I don't know it may be changing already. I know he towed the line at WH but his reluctance to come can be an indicator of change.

I don't know much about Dodson. Bro Way although he had alot of dealings with the Vineyard's I am not sure how he ran his church. But there were signs that he didn't swallo everything JAV taught or supported all his rules.

For one thing he had a beard and facial hair was forbidden for anyone that wanted to help at WHBC. You could not be on staff, teach a Sunday school class, sing in the choir, sing a special, be an usher, do parking lot duty etc if you a beard.

I alway wondered why they made an exception for Bro Way.

I don't know for sure about Dodson but Vineyard helped Way move on when his church found out that he was mishandling the money they were giving. I mean they had a millionaire at their church and were having debt problems???? When his church confronted him about it he wouldn't step down so they voted him out. Now all of a sudden God called him to Israel and he making trips and raising support. Kind of fishy to me.

 

[TruthBearer]

I don't think his message is responsible for anyone staying there. Those that left did so before he came, those that stayed were already determined to stay. I believe his message was irrelevant to people's decision.

Does anyone know of a member up there that had changed their minds about leaving after hearing Bro Ross's message?

Yep sure do. I am not going to name names on here cause it is not fair to them but I have personally talked with a family that were on the fence about the whole situation. After Bro. Ross preached they said they weren't going anywhere they are just going to serve God and forgive Tom.

His message has for sure swayed people into staying, looking the other way, or down right dismissing the accusations as false.

If they were that easily swayed I think they probably had already made their minds up and just took the easy way out and did nothing.

Some of the members up there close their eyes to what is going on because it is easier for them to bury their head in the sand and not know what is going on. I have known several up there that is exactly how they are, they don't want to know the facts because that will take them out of their comfort zone.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

With all that being said that is why I think there could be some hope, he senses there is something wrong going on but isn't man enough to call the Vineyard's out.

Do you honestly think that is going to change anytime soon?

He's not the only Texan that falls into this category. How about Dodson or Way? Are they still swallowing everything that comes out of WHBC?

That I don't know it may be changing already. I know he towed the line at WH but his reluctance to come can be an indicator of change.

I don't know much about Dodson. Bro Way although he had alot of dealings with the Vineyard's I am not sure how he ran his church. But there were signs that he didn't swallo everything JAV taught or supported all his rules.

For one thing he had a beard and facial hair was forbidden for anyone that wanted to help at WHBC. You could not be on staff, teach a Sunday school class, sing in the choir, sing a special, be an usher, do parking lot duty etc if you a beard.

I alway wondered why they made an exception for Bro Way.

I don't know for sure about Dodson but Vineyard helped Way move on when his church found out that he was mishandling the money they were giving. I mean they had a millionaire at their church and were having debt problems???? When his church confronted him about it he wouldn't step down so they voted him out. Now all of a sudden God called him to Israel and he making trips and raising support. Kind of fishy to me.

Did what he is doing change?

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/garry-way/40/697/a23

Isn't he calling his ministry "the Gentile ministry" or something close to that?

 

[RedRover01]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post.

I think there is a big difference between leaving and sneaking off, or leaving because you were in "trouble."  Harding, Crutchfield, and Ross all need to fall into that category.  No respect for any of them. All three had a wide range of power over young people and have hurt and scared many. The fact that Ross and Harding still get to preach is a shame and a disgrace to the men who truly have wanted to do what is right. 


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[Just me]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post.

I think there is a big difference between leaving and sneaking off, or leaving because you were in "trouble."  Harding, Crutchfield, and Ross all need to fall into that category.  No respect for any of them. All three had a wide range of power over young people and have hurt and scared many. The fact that Ross and Harding still get to preach is a shame and a disgrace to the men who truly have wanted to do what is right. 


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Actually the men who "truly have wanted to do what is right" have absolutely no say over who gets to preach in the pulpit. That decision is now and always has been totally in the power of the head man.  Which has always been named Vineyard except for a short trial period with Porter in that position. 

Fact is all decisions go through the head hauncho, period.

Oh and if you do not like it then you will be reminded of the "obey them that have the rule over you" perversion rules that permiate many IFB churches.

 

[Just me]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post.

I think there is a big difference between leaving and sneaking off, or leaving because you were in "trouble."  Harding, Crutchfield, and Ross all need to fall into that category.  No respect for any of them. All three had a wide range of power over young people and have hurt and scared many. The fact that Ross and Harding still get to preach is a shame and a disgrace to the men who truly have wanted to do what is right. 


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I'd like to know what's up with Harding.  He visits our church a couple times a year and our pastor has participated in his annual trips to D.C.  I've never felt good about the guy but haven't found anything concrete. 
I don't post here much...mostly read, so I'm sure I'll be accused of trolling for Vineyard, you can check out my story at fundyrebel.wordpress.com.

If you never felt good about the guy, I say run with that.  It will tell you all you need to know.

I have never met a young lady that has said they just feel safe around that man.  While on the contrary I have met and know many a lady/young lady who all say what you say.

Same goes for Tommy Boy.

 

[RedRover01]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post.

I think there is a big difference between leaving and sneaking off, or leaving because you were in "trouble."  Harding, Crutchfield, and Ross all need to fall into that category.  No respect for any of them. All three had a wide range of power over young people and have hurt and scared many. The fact that Ross and Harding still get to preach is a shame and a disgrace to the men who truly have wanted to do what is right. 


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I'd like to know what's up with Harding.  He visits our church a couple times a year and our pastor has participated in his annual trips to D.C.  I've never felt good about the guy but haven't found anything concrete. 
I don't post here much...mostly read, so I'm sure I'll be accused of trolling for Vineyard, you can check out my story at fundyrebel.wordpress.com.

There's a whole loooong story on Harding. I personally think it is a shame that no record is kept between IFB churches when things happen. They just "float" from one ministry to another where the same thing happens again and again. Disappointing.  It seems to happen over and over again and everyone just dismisses it as "gossip."  If Harding had worked at a public school as a principal he would probably be in jail right now, not preaching.


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[TruthBearer]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post.

I think there is a big difference between leaving and sneaking off, or leaving because you were in "trouble."  Harding, Crutchfield, and Ross all need to fall into that category.  No respect for any of them. All three had a wide range of power over young people and have hurt and scared many. The fact that Ross and Harding still get to preach is a shame and a disgrace to the men who truly have wanted to do what is right. 


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I'd like to know what's up with Harding.  He visits our church a couple times a year and our pastor has participated in his annual trips to D.C.  I've never felt good about the guy but haven't found anything concrete. 
I don't post here much...mostly read, so I'm sure I'll be accused of trolling for Vineyard, you can check out my story at fundyrebel.wordpress.com.

There's a whole loooong story on Harding. I personally think it is a shame that no record is kept between IFB churches when things happen. They just "float" from one ministry to another where the same thing happens again and again. Disappointing.  It seems to happen over and over again and everyone just dismisses it as "gossip."  If Harding had worked at a public school as a principal he would probably be in jail right now, not preaching.


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If you're comfortable doing so, would you mind sending me a pm with any pertinent info.

The only info you need is he likes to get young girls alone when he can and he was fired from WHBC once before for having inappropriate relations with one of the Melody's. Then Vineyard hired him a few years later to be the principal of WHBS. That was a brilliant thing to do on Vineyard's part. Hiring a known  pervert (one he fired himself for that reason)  to be a principal of a hgh school with unfettered access to young ladies.

 

[Walt]

I don't know for sure about Dodson but Vineyard helped Way move on when his church found out that he was mishandling the money they were giving. I mean they had a millionaire at their church and were having debt problems???? When his church confronted him about it he wouldn't step down so they voted him out. Now all of a sudden God called him to Israel and he making trips and raising support. Kind of fishy to me.

Is that what happened to Way? I was always suspicious about what took place there; it was a very sudden change in the pastorate, and the web site seems to have vanished; all the signs were highly suspicious.  Is this just rumor, or is there truth behind it?

 

[JustABigKid]

I don't know for sure about Dodson but Vineyard helped Way move on when his church found out that he was mishandling the money they were giving. I mean they had a millionaire at their church and were having debt problems???? When his church confronted him about it he wouldn't step down so they voted him out. Now all of a sudden God called him to Israel and he making trips and raising support. Kind of fishy to me.

Is that what happened to Way? I was always suspicious about what took place there; it was a very sudden change in the pastorate, and the web site seems to have vanished; all the signs were highly suspicious.  Is this just rumor, or is there truth behind it?

It is truth. I have personal friends that attend there that told me the truth of what happened not what was betrayed by Way, Vineyard or others who are trying to back him. When he goes to a church he doesn't talk about being a pastor before or anything that led up to his moving to this ministry. If people really knew why he was now trying to be a missionary they would not support him or ask him to their church.

 

[Just me]

I don't know for sure about Dodson but Vineyard helped Way move on when his church found out that he was mishandling the money they were giving. I mean they had a millionaire at their church and were having debt problems???? When his church confronted him about it he wouldn't step down so they voted him out. Now all of a sudden God called him to Israel and he making trips and raising support. Kind of fishy to me.

Is that what happened to Way? I was always suspicious about what took place there; it was a very sudden change in the pastorate, and the web site seems to have vanished; all the signs were highly suspicious.  Is this just rumor, or is there truth behind it?

It is truth. I have personal friends that attend there that told me the truth of what happened not what was betrayed by Way, Vineyard or others who are trying to back him. When he goes to a church he doesn't talk about being a pastor before or anything that led up to his moving to this ministry. If people really knew why he was now trying to be a missionary they would not support him or ask him to their church.

Oh the IFB way in full bloom!  Protect your buddies at all costs so that they will protect you when you get caught with your hands in someones skirt!  oops I mean in the cookie jar.

Disgusting

 

[Walt]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post.

I think there is a big difference between leaving and sneaking off, or leaving because you were in "trouble."  Harding, Crutchfield, and Ross all need to fall into that category.  No respect for any of them. All three had a wide range of power over young people and have hurt and scared many. The fact that Ross and Harding still get to preach is a shame and a disgrace to the men who truly have wanted to do what is right. 


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I'd like to know what's up with Harding.  He visits our church a couple times a year and our pastor has participated in his annual trips to D.C.  I've never felt good about the guy but haven't found anything concrete. 
I don't post here much...mostly read, so I'm sure I'll be accused of trolling for Vineyard, you can check out my story at fundyrebel.wordpress.com.

There's a whole loooong story on Harding. I personally think it is a shame that no record is kept between IFB churches when things happen. They just "float" from one ministry to another where the same thing happens again and again. Disappointing.  It seems to happen over and over again and everyone just dismisses it as "gossip."  If Harding had worked at a public school as a principal he would probably be in jail right now, not preaching.


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If you're comfortable doing so, would you mind sending me a pm with any pertinent info.

Ditto for me; if this is the "Harding" I'm thinking of, I'm concerned.

 

[AlvinMartinezVoice]

Harding's got 99 problems and one of the Meldoy's ain't one!

 

[McCartyJoel]

Justin Waters, the current deaf pastor, seems to be a success story.

Caleb Garaway, a famous evangelist, seems to be a success story. He's on a U.S. tour this summer coming to a Fundy church near you.

Bro McCarty and his family seem fine. Joel was a graduate from OBC and his family were the ones who invited my friend and his family to attend WHBC until turmoil.

What about these people:

Johnny Shaver
Jon Magas
Adam Stewart
Jon-Michael Magas
James Magas

I actually never graduated from OBC. I transferred to another small fundy college, where I graduated and moved on staff, which allowed me to see much of the hypocrisy that goes on behind the scenes. Slowly, God brought us to a plane where we began to understand grace, and we eventually left and landed at an Acts 29 church in the same area where I was on staff. It was a crazy journey for us, but my family and I are doing great, by the grace of God.


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[TheAlvinChimpmunk]

I actually never graduated from OBC. I transferred to another small fundy college, where I graduated and moved on staff, which allowed me to see much of the hypocrisy that goes on behind the scenes. Slowly, God brought us to a plane where we began to understand grace, and we eventually left and landed at an Acts 29 church in the same area where I was on staff. It was a crazy journey for us, but my family and I are doing great, by the grace of God.


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You gonna do a sermon series on your hero George Floyd?