"Long" hair on men

[Bruh]

Why go into detail on these things from the pulpit.

I'm sorry but when I show up on Sunday morning, Sunday night or Wednesday night or any other time to hear preaching I DO NOT GO TO HEAR HOW LONG OR SHORT ME OR MY WIFES HAIR SHOULD BE.

Yea, if you were teaching the book of I Corinthians it would be best to skip chapter 11.

I can deal with that......you know preaching through a book a this comes up.....PREACHING THROUGH A BOOK, but that's it.

I am not for a preacher hobby horsing on something like this, but it is part of Scripture.  Some people have been burnt our of standards to the point that they want no preaching/teaching on any standards.  To be honest with you I don't believe I have heard a preacher teach on this passage at any time in my life.

ROFL!!  And that is all I will say lest I give myself away.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Nazarite vow: separated to God

I Cor. 11:14: shame to "nature".

Clearly "nature" isn't separated to God.

Could you expound on this? You have piqued my interest.

Nothing to expound, just a quick, observation meant to be a tad humorous.

I do know that the Nazarite vow showed a separation to God in the Jewish culture. Paul was dealing with the Gentile culture and mentioned their "nature". I'm guessing it was simply an ethnic, cultural difference and Paul may have been in the "all things to all men in order to save some" mindset. Same would have been with his stance on head coverings for women.

I don't believe that nature is always opposed to God or godly things. People can naturally be benevolent yet atheist in belief so their nature of benevolence wouldn't be anti-godly though their nature of atheism might be.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Nazarite vow: separated to God

I Cor. 11:14: shame to "nature".

Clearly "nature" isn't separated to God.

Could you expound on this? You have piqued my interest.

Nothing to expound, just a quick, observation meant to be a tad humorous.

I do know that the Nazarite vow showed a separation to God in the Jewish culture. Paul was dealing with the Gentile culture and mentioned their "nature". I'm guessing it was simply an ethnic, cultural difference and Paul may have been in the "all things to all men in order to save some" mindset. Same would have been with his stance on head coverings for women.

I don't believe that nature is always opposed to God or godly things. People can naturally be benevolent yet atheist in belief so their nature of benevolence wouldn't be anti-godly though their nature of atheism might be.

Thank you, I see where you are going. I do not disagree.

I have never heard it explained as "human nature" that that teaches long hair is a shame. I have heard it explained as man's "natural" hairline. Some say that it is a shame for man to have his hair any longer than his natural hairline. I found it quite amusing that one preacher who preached it this way had one of the most hideous comb-overs I have ever seen. I can imagine that if he combed it straight down, it would have rivaled his wife's hair.

I guess as long as it's off the ears and off the collar, huh? 

On another note, which is more spiritual: tapered in the back or blocked in the back???   

 

[subllibrm]

On another note, which is more spiritual: tapered in the back or blocked in the back??? 

A mullet is better than either of those.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I have never heard it explained as "human nature" that that teaches long hair is a shame. I have heard it explained as man's "natural" hairline. Some say that it is a shame for man to have his hair any longer than his natural hairline. I found it quite amusing that one preacher who preached it this way had one of the most hideous comb-overs I have ever seen. I can imagine that if he combed it straight down, it would have rivaled his wife's hair.

The thing I would question about the explanation you heard is, how is a woman's "natural" hairline different than a man's? Or since in Christ there is neither male nor female, how is it that the hairline rules differ for her than for a man?

 

[16KJV11]

Could it be that Paul was warning against exactly what is happening today? 
The sexes have become so confused and clouded. 
Obviously part of the homosexual agenda, but we DARE not criticize the homosexual agenda.
There is no distinctiveness between the sexes anymore except the plumbing.
And even that doesn't matter any more. 
Like the almond joy commercial, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."
Sometimes you feel like a guy, sometimes you don't.
Hmm, today I feel like a woman, guess I'll use the ladies room.
There is a private elementary/middle/high school near me, 20K a student per year that has had assemblies saying:
Don't get alarmed if you go in the bathroom and see someone of the opposite sex there...
No lie.  One of their employees goes to my church.
Girls want to look like and be like guys, Guys want to look like and be like gals. 
God wants distinction to be outward.
Less confusion that way. 
Man wants to confuse the issue.

 

[RAIDER]

Could it be that Paul was warning against exactly what is happening today? 
The sexes have become so confused and clouded. 
Obviously part of the homosexual agenda, but we DARE not criticize the homosexual agenda.
There is no distinctiveness between the sexes anymore except the plumbing.
And even that doesn't matter any more. 
Like the almond joy commercial, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."
Sometimes you feel like a guy, sometimes you don't.
Hmm, today I feel like a woman, guess I'll use the ladies room.
There is a private elementary/middle/high school near me, 20K a student per year that has had assemblies saying:
Don't get alarmed if you go in the bathroom and see someone of the opposite sex there...
No lie.  One of their employees goes to my church.
Girls want to look like and be like guys, Guys want to look like and be like gals. 
God wants distinction to be outward.
Less confusion that way. 
Man wants to confuse the issue.

It makes one ask, "Does not God want modesty in dress as well as a differentiating of the sexes in dress and appearance?" 

 

[16KJV11]

Could it be that Paul was warning against exactly what is happening today? 
The sexes have become so confused and clouded. 
Obviously part of the homosexual agenda, but we DARE not criticize the homosexual agenda.
There is no distinctiveness between the sexes anymore except the plumbing.
And even that doesn't matter any more. 
Like the almond joy commercial, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."
Sometimes you feel like a guy, sometimes you don't.
Hmm, today I feel like a woman, guess I'll use the ladies room.
There is a private elementary/middle/high school near me, 20K a student per year that has had assemblies saying:
Don't get alarmed if you go in the bathroom and see someone of the opposite sex there...
No lie.  One of their employees goes to my church.
Girls want to look like and be like guys, Guys want to look like and be like gals. 
God wants distinction to be outward.
Less confusion that way. 
Man wants to confuse the issue.

It makes one ask, "Does not God want modesty in dress as well as a differentiating of the sexes in dress and appearance?"

To show you how confused the issue is getting, read this:
"Lesbians upset by straight women who dress butch."
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/415990/guardian-column-straight-women-baggy-clothes-are-appropriating-lesbian-culture

 

[RAIDER]

Could it be that Paul was warning against exactly what is happening today? 
The sexes have become so confused and clouded. 
Obviously part of the homosexual agenda, but we DARE not criticize the homosexual agenda.
There is no distinctiveness between the sexes anymore except the plumbing.
And even that doesn't matter any more. 
Like the almond joy commercial, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."
Sometimes you feel like a guy, sometimes you don't.
Hmm, today I feel like a woman, guess I'll use the ladies room.
There is a private elementary/middle/high school near me, 20K a student per year that has had assemblies saying:
Don't get alarmed if you go in the bathroom and see someone of the opposite sex there...
No lie.  One of their employees goes to my church.
Girls want to look like and be like guys, Guys want to look like and be like gals. 
God wants distinction to be outward.
Less confusion that way. 
Man wants to confuse the issue.

It makes one ask, "Does not God want modesty in dress as well as a differentiating of the sexes in dress and appearance?"

To show you how confused the issue is getting, read this:
"Lesbians upset by straight women who dress butch."
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/415990/guardian-column-straight-women-baggy-clothes-are-appropriating-lesbian-culture

It's almost like our dress identifies us, isn't it? 

 

[16KJV11]

Could it be that Paul was warning against exactly what is happening today? 
The sexes have become so confused and clouded. 
Obviously part of the homosexual agenda, but we DARE not criticize the homosexual agenda.
There is no distinctiveness between the sexes anymore except the plumbing.
And even that doesn't matter any more. 
Like the almond joy commercial, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."
Sometimes you feel like a guy, sometimes you don't.
Hmm, today I feel like a woman, guess I'll use the ladies room.
There is a private elementary/middle/high school near me, 20K a student per year that has had assemblies saying:
Don't get alarmed if you go in the bathroom and see someone of the opposite sex there...
No lie.  One of their employees goes to my church.
Girls want to look like and be like guys, Guys want to look like and be like gals. 
God wants distinction to be outward.
Less confusion that way. 
Man wants to confuse the issue.

It makes one ask, "Does not God want modesty in dress as well as a differentiating of the sexes in dress and appearance?"

To show you how confused the issue is getting, read this:
"Lesbians upset by straight women who dress butch."
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/415990/guardian-column-straight-women-baggy-clothes-are-appropriating-lesbian-culture

It's almost like our dress identifies us, isn't it? 

Makes you wonder.  The world has it pegged.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Could it be that Paul was warning against exactly what is happening today? 
The sexes have become so confused and clouded. 
Obviously part of the homosexual agenda, but we DARE not criticize the homosexual agenda.
There is no distinctiveness between the sexes anymore except the plumbing.
And even that doesn't matter any more. 
Like the almond joy commercial, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."
Sometimes you feel like a guy, sometimes you don't.
Hmm, today I feel like a woman, guess I'll use the ladies room.
There is a private elementary/middle/high school near me, 20K a student per year that has had assemblies saying:
Don't get alarmed if you go in the bathroom and see someone of the opposite sex there...
No lie.  One of their employees goes to my church.
Girls want to look like and be like guys, Guys want to look like and be like gals. 
God wants distinction to be outward.
Less confusion that way. 
Man wants to confuse the issue.

It makes one ask, "Does not God want modesty in dress as well as a differentiating of the sexes in dress and appearance?"

To show you how confused the issue is getting, read this:
"Lesbians upset by straight women who dress butch."
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/415990/guardian-column-straight-women-baggy-clothes-are-appropriating-lesbian-culture

It's almost like our dress identifies us, isn't it? 

When the identifier should be what Jesus said:

By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.

 

[RAIDER]

Could it be that Paul was warning against exactly what is happening today? 
The sexes have become so confused and clouded. 
Obviously part of the homosexual agenda, but we DARE not criticize the homosexual agenda.
There is no distinctiveness between the sexes anymore except the plumbing.
And even that doesn't matter any more. 
Like the almond joy commercial, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."
Sometimes you feel like a guy, sometimes you don't.
Hmm, today I feel like a woman, guess I'll use the ladies room.
There is a private elementary/middle/high school near me, 20K a student per year that has had assemblies saying:
Don't get alarmed if you go in the bathroom and see someone of the opposite sex there...
No lie.  One of their employees goes to my church.
Girls want to look like and be like guys, Guys want to look like and be like gals. 
God wants distinction to be outward.
Less confusion that way. 
Man wants to confuse the issue.

It makes one ask, "Does not God want modesty in dress as well as a differentiating of the sexes in dress and appearance?"

To show you how confused the issue is getting, read this:
"Lesbians upset by straight women who dress butch."
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/415990/guardian-column-straight-women-baggy-clothes-are-appropriating-lesbian-culture

It's almost like our dress identifies us, isn't it? 

When the identifier should be what Jesus said:

By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.

Loving one another does not identify us as male and female.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Could it be that Paul was warning against exactly what is happening today? 
The sexes have become so confused and clouded. 
Obviously part of the homosexual agenda, but we DARE not criticize the homosexual agenda.
There is no distinctiveness between the sexes anymore except the plumbing.
And even that doesn't matter any more. 
Like the almond joy commercial, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."
Sometimes you feel like a guy, sometimes you don't.
Hmm, today I feel like a woman, guess I'll use the ladies room.
There is a private elementary/middle/high school near me, 20K a student per year that has had assemblies saying:
Don't get alarmed if you go in the bathroom and see someone of the opposite sex there...
No lie.  One of their employees goes to my church.
Girls want to look like and be like guys, Guys want to look like and be like gals. 
God wants distinction to be outward.
Less confusion that way. 
Man wants to confuse the issue.

It makes one ask, "Does not God want modesty in dress as well as a differentiating of the sexes in dress and appearance?"

To show you how confused the issue is getting, read this:
"Lesbians upset by straight women who dress butch."
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/415990/guardian-column-straight-women-baggy-clothes-are-appropriating-lesbian-culture

It's almost like our dress identifies us, isn't it? 

When the identifier should be what Jesus said:

By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.

Loving one another does not identify us as male and female.

Paul said:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[RAIDER]

Paul said:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Paul was not saying that there should not be a difference in the sexes when it comes to appearance.  He was talking about salvation.  It doesn't matter if you are Jew, Greek, bond, free, male or female - all can be saved.

 

[RAIDER]

Do you think the Nazarite Vow was for that dispensation, or do you think it is still relevant for today?

Clearly, the "norm" was for Jewish men to have short hair, or a man taking a Nazarite vow would not be noticeable.

Nothing like the Nazarite vow shows up in the New Testament commands to Christians, so I assume that such a vow is only for Jews.

The Scriptures clearly tell us that it is shameful for a man to have "long" hair and that a woman should have long hair as a "covering".

Thus, it seems logical that the Scripture is telling us that a woman's hair should cover something on her that is not covered on a man.  There is head, face, eyes, nose, mouth, ears, neck that could be covered.  Clearly not the head (scalp), since even short hair covers that. Eyes, nose, and mouth don't make sense.  That leaves ears and/or neck.

When I was in college, a pastor claimed that the roots of the Greek word translated "covering" carried the concept of "down the sides", and thus ears. He told us that he believed that the New Testament rule was that men should have their ears uncovered with hair, and that women should have hair over their ears.

I've never had reason to check up on what he said; I've always tried to keep my hair off of my ears.

This is still the best interpretation that I have read on this thread.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Paul said:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Paul was not saying that there should not be a difference in the sexes when it comes to appearance.  He was talking about salvation.  It doesn't matter if you are Jew, Greek, bond, free, male or female - all can be saved.

I'll agree with that.

Here's the deal. I really don't care one way or another and here is why: I have no desire to dress like a woman and I won't be answering to God for those men who do have the desire.

Basically, worrying about what other people wear is like me as a Cubs fan telling baseball fans how to display and care for the World Series trophy: doesn't affect me one way or the other.

And preaching against it: Is it REALLY a problem in our churches that it needs to be addressed or is the pastor simply looking to tickle listening ears or simply wanting to shout in an echo chamber?

 

[16KJV11]

Paul said:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Paul was not saying that there should not be a difference in the sexes when it comes to appearance.  He was talking about salvation.  It doesn't matter if you are Jew, Greek, bond, free, male or female - all can be saved.

I'll agree with that.

Here's the deal. I really don't care one way or another and here is why: I have no desire to dress like a woman and I won't be answering to God for those men who do have the desire.

Basically, worrying about what other people wear is like me as a Cubs fan telling baseball fans how to display and care for the World Series trophy: doesn't affect me one way or the other.

And preaching against it: Is it REALLY a problem in our churches that it needs to be addressed or is the pastor simply looking to tickle listening ears or simply wanting to shout in an echo chamber?

Making it a focal point in your messages (a hobby horse) is unwise, yet ignoring it altogether so that Christians have no understanding about the issue invites confusion.  The only guide most people have is what they see on TV, at work or at school.

 

[RAIDER]

Paul said:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Paul was not saying that there should not be a difference in the sexes when it comes to appearance.  He was talking about salvation.  It doesn't matter if you are Jew, Greek, bond, free, male or female - all can be saved.

I'll agree with that.

Here's the deal. I really don't care one way or another and here is why: I have no desire to dress like a woman and I won't be answering to God for those men who do have the desire.

Basically, worrying about what other people wear is like me as a Cubs fan telling baseball fans how to display and care for the World Series trophy: doesn't affect me one way or the other.

And preaching against it: Is it REALLY a problem in our churches that it needs to be addressed or is the pastor simply looking to tickle listening ears or simply wanting to shout in an echo chamber?

I also have no desire to dress like a woman (except on special occasions )).  And you are correct in that I won't answer to God for what others do.  On the other hand I believe God will bring judgment upon a nation that "normalizes" homosexuality.  This does matter to me.  I'm not saying it should become a hobby horse but, yes, a thousands times, yes, preachers need to preach against it.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I also have no desire to dress like a woman (except on special occasions )).

Doing so did bail Bugs Bunny out a time or two.

  And you are correct in that I won't answer to God for what others do.  On the other hand I believe God will bring judgment upon a nation that "normalizes" homosexuality.

And this is where we part in our beliefs. It seems to me in the OT that God judged nations based on what they did to others (Sodom included) and not on specific sexual proclivities or immoral habits. The prophets continued to harp on the issues of immorality, idolatry and lack of benevolence in bringing Israel back yet there seemed to be Sodom-like behaviors (like the Tribe of Benjamin - see Judges 19). So I don't see homosexuality any less immoral than say, burning witches, murdering babies or hanging folks of another ethnicity.  I don't see how God would deem homosexuality any worse than that.

This does matter to me.  I'm not saying it should become a hobby horse but, yes, a thousands times, yes, preachers need to preach against it.

Opinion noted.

 

[TidesofTruth]

I also have no desire to dress like a woman (except on special occasions )).

Doing so did bail Bugs Bunny out a time or two.

  And you are correct in that I won't answer to God for what others do.  On the other hand I believe God will bring judgment upon a nation that "normalizes" homosexuality.

And this is where we part in our beliefs. It seems to me in the OT that God judged nations based on what they did to others (Sodom included) and not on specific sexual proclivities or immoral habits. The prophets continued to harp on the issues of immorality, idolatry and lack of benevolence in bringing Israel back yet there seemed to be Sodom-like behaviors (like the Tribe of Benjamin - see Judges 19). So I don't see homosexuality any less immoral than say, burning witches, murdering babies or hanging folks of another ethnicity.  I don't see how God would deem homosexuality any worse than that.

This does matter to me.  I'm not saying it should become a hobby horse but, yes, a thousands times, yes, preachers need to preach against it.

Opinion noted.

Acceptance of Homosexuality is not the cause of God's Judgment. It is a road sign (as are many others) of where you are on the road to such judgment.  The road is laid out in Romans 1 and begins with holding truth in unrighteousness and being unthankful and ends with taking enjoyment in those who do such things (all the sins listed) which does concern me in the media we involve ourselves in.