Loyal Alumni?

[wtyson]

Just me...You have no idea what you are talking about. Dr Fenwick was a good man who was trying to help. Before you attempt to run down the character of a man who is in heaven get your facts straight.


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Says the man who blindly defends a college and church he has never once attend a service for.

You, sir, have no idea of what I know of Bro. Finwick or of you for that matter.

Now go back to pastoring that church a plane wreck dumped into your hands.

You assume that my defense of my former pastor equates to a defense of WHBC and OBC. The two are not related and you assume too much. It is not my intention to publicly debate you or jump into the events happening in Oklahoma. Frankly, as you stated I am pastoring...pastoring a wonderful group of people in Maryland who five years ago went through a difficult time but kept their eyes on Christ and knew that the church isn't about a man but Christ.

I want my focus to be on the ministry, reaching people for Christ, discipleship and ministering to the needs of our congregation.

Not that nastiness of the FFF, the gossip, the innuendo and frankly the waste of time defending the indefensible actions of others. Just not interested.

I knew Dr. Fenwick for 25+ years. I heard him preach thousands of times. I sat in meetings with him hundreds of times. Was he perfect, no, no man is, but I know he had a heart for people and desire to see people come to Christ. Because I saw it with my own eyes.

It is so easy to attack people behind the veil of anonymity. It is easy to not have to be accountable for what you say. You insinuate that you "know" me and somehow that is supposed to intimidate me? I have nothing to hide. I have never hide on the FFF, this one or the old one.

 

[Just me]

Just me...You have no idea what you are talking about. Dr Fenwick was a good man who was trying to help. Before you attempt to run down the character of a man who is in heaven get your facts straight.


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Says the man who blindly defends a college and church he has never once attend a service for.

You, sir, have no idea of what I know of Bro. Finwick or of you for that matter.

Now go back to pastoring that church a plane wreck dumped into your hands.

You assume that my defense of my former pastor equates to a defense of WHBC and OBC. The two are not related and you assume too much. It is not my intention to publicly debate you or jump into the events happening in Oklahoma. Frankly, as you stated I am pastoring...pastoring a wonderful group of people in Maryland who five years ago went through a difficult time but kept their eyes on Christ and knew that the church isn't about a man but Christ.

I want my focus to be on the ministry, reaching people for Christ, discipleship and ministering to the needs of our congregation.

Not that nastiness of the FFF, the gossip, the innuendo and frankly the waste of time defending the indefensible actions of others. Just not interested.

I knew Dr. Fenwick for 25+ years. I heard him preach thousands of times. I sat in meetings with him hundreds of times. Was he perfect, no, no man is, but I know he had a heart for people and desire to see people come to Christ. Because I saw it with my own eyes.

It is so easy to attack people behind the veil of anonymity. It is easy to not have to be accountable for what you say. You insinuate that you "know" me and somehow that is supposed to intimidate me? I have nothing to hide. I have never hide on the FFF, this one or the old one.

Be ye warmed and filled,  my brother

 

[Walt]

Regarding the wtyson and the "Just me" exchange...

I have never heard of Bro Finwick, but your exchange is not beneficial, nor does it lift up Jesus Christ.

Just me wrote

Of course his plane crash was just God calling him home to say well done and not related to the fact that he was aiding in the whole make Paul Vineyard into a hero crusade while we crush and destroy the innocent children and wife of the whoremonger baby Vineyard boy.

which was a speculation of what was behind the crash, and an accusation that Bro Finwick was knowingly covering up the gross sin of Paul Vineyard.

"Just me" may or may not be wrong here (presumably someone can furnish some kind of evidence)... but wtyson comes back with:

I knew Dr. Fenwick for 25+ years. I heard him preach thousands of times. I sat in meetings with him hundreds of times. Was he perfect, no, no man is, but I know he had a heart for people and desire to see people come to Christ.

This, sir, is no defense.  David was "a man after God's own heart" for many, many years, and then, at 52 or thereabouts, he committed adultery with Bathsheba.  No amount of pointing at David's good record and acts of greatness can change that. Nor is simply saying "he is not perfect" : the accusation being discussed isn't a matter of some sin men consider "minor" but helping to destroy other people to prop up a leader is a heinous sin. (if he indeed do it).

Bro Finwick may be an entirely good man who made just this one big mistake to defend Paul Vineyard. God may have "taken him home" because of that sin, but no one knows the mind of God... just as it may be just coincidence that Bro Ross came down with a serious illness after defending Tom Vineyard, or it could be God touching him with His finger.

wtyson, if you don't believe "Just me", fine. Say so, or invite "Just me" to offer some evidence, rather than innuendo.  I assume no one disagrees that he defended Paul Vineyard? That is evidence, but it could mean that he was duped.  Did he indulge in character assassination of the accusers?  That would be evidence.

But your exchange is merely getting spiteful and personal, and that's regrettable.

 

[Just me]

But your exchange is merely getting spiteful and personal, and that's regrettable.

Thus I ended it

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Wasn't Fenwick the guy that ultimately outed Centurion on the old forum?

 

[Just me]

Wasn't Fenwick the guy that ultimately outed Centurion on the old forum?

No it was not Fenwick.  It was another loyalist. 

 

[RedRover01]

Regarding the wtyson and the "Just me" exchange...

I have never heard of Bro Finwick, but your exchange is not beneficial, nor does it lift up Jesus Christ.

Just me wrote

Of course his plane crash was just God calling him home to say well done and not related to the fact that he was aiding in the whole make Paul Vineyard into a hero crusade while we crush and destroy the innocent children and wife of the whoremonger baby Vineyard boy.

which was a speculation of what was behind the crash, and an accusation that Bro Finwick was knowingly covering up the gross sin of Paul Vineyard.

"Just me" may or may not be wrong here (presumably someone can furnish some kind of evidence)... but wtyson comes back with:

I knew Dr. Fenwick for 25+ years. I heard him preach thousands of times. I sat in meetings with him hundreds of times. Was he perfect, no, no man is, but I know he had a heart for people and desire to see people come to Christ.

This, sir, is no defense.  David was "a man after God's own heart" for many, many years, and then, at 52 or thereabouts, he committed adultery with Bathsheba.  No amount of pointing at David's good record and acts of greatness can change that. Nor is simply saying "he is not perfect" : the accusation being discussed isn't a matter of some sin men consider "minor" but helping to destroy other people to prop up a leader is a heinous sin. (if he indeed do it).

Bro Finwick may be an entirely good man who made just this one big mistake to defend Paul Vineyard. God may have "taken him home" because of that sin, but no one knows the mind of God... just as it may be just coincidence that Bro Ross came down with a serious illness after defending Tom Vineyard, or it could be God touching him with His finger.

wtyson, if you don't believe "Just me", fine. Say so, or invite "Just me" to offer some evidence, rather than innuendo.  I assume no one disagrees that he defended Paul Vineyard? That is evidence, but it could mean that he was duped.  Did he indulge in character assassination of the accusers?  That would be evidence.

But your exchange is merely getting spiteful and personal, and that's regrettable.

Ummmmm.  Paul Vineyard wasn't the first of the Vineyardites that Fenwick harbored.  His church is where Hardin went and attended after he was fired for misconduct with a college student. Harding "hid out" there for a few years and then returned to WH to wreck more havoc.  I would also like to point out Harding was allowed to return on Fenwick's high praise. History tends to repeat itself.


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[Just me]

Regarding the wtyson and the "Just me" exchange...

I have never heard of Bro Finwick, but your exchange is not beneficial, nor does it lift up Jesus Christ.

Just me wrote

Of course his plane crash was just God calling him home to say well done and not related to the fact that he was aiding in the whole make Paul Vineyard into a hero crusade while we crush and destroy the innocent children and wife of the whoremonger baby Vineyard boy.

which was a speculation of what was behind the crash, and an accusation that Bro Finwick was knowingly covering up the gross sin of Paul Vineyard.

"Just me" may or may not be wrong here (presumably someone can furnish some kind of evidence)... but wtyson comes back with:

I knew Dr. Fenwick for 25+ years. I heard him preach thousands of times. I sat in meetings with him hundreds of times. Was he perfect, no, no man is, but I know he had a heart for people and desire to see people come to Christ.

This, sir, is no defense.  David was "a man after God's own heart" for many, many years, and then, at 52 or thereabouts, he committed adultery with Bathsheba.  No amount of pointing at David's good record and acts of greatness can change that. Nor is simply saying "he is not perfect" : the accusation being discussed isn't a matter of some sin men consider "minor" but helping to destroy other people to prop up a leader is a heinous sin. (if he indeed do it).

Bro Finwick may be an entirely good man who made just this one big mistake to defend Paul Vineyard. God may have "taken him home" because of that sin, but no one knows the mind of God... just as it may be just coincidence that Bro Ross came down with a serious illness after defending Tom Vineyard, or it could be God touching him with His finger.

wtyson, if you don't believe "Just me", fine. Say so, or invite "Just me" to offer some evidence, rather than innuendo.  I assume no one disagrees that he defended Paul Vineyard? That is evidence, but it could mean that he was duped.  Did he indulge in character assassination of the accusers?  That would be evidence.

But your exchange is merely getting spiteful and personal, and that's regrettable.

Ummmmm.  Paul Vineyard wasn't the first of the Vineyardites that Fenwick harbored.  His church is where Hardin went and attended after he was fired for misconduct with a college student. Harding "hid out" there for a few years and then returned to WH to wreck more havoc.  I would also like to point out Harding was allowed to return on Fenwick's high praise. History tends to repeat itself.


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Thanks RedRover01 but wtyson probably will now come after you.  I just did not feel like carrying it further with the dude.

 

[RedRover01]

Side note --- I do know the Fenwick's.  I've had dinner with them. Know their kids. Were friends with them. Was deeply saddened to hear of his death.

But the issue here is that he did support and allow men who had committed gross moral sins to work and be associated with him.  Is that right it wrong??


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[TruthBearer]

Side note --- I do know the Fenwick's.  I've had dinner with them. Know their kids. Were friends with them. Was deeply saddened to hear of his death.

But the issue here is that he did support and allow men who had committed gross moral sins to work and be associated with him.  Is that right it wrong??


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Helping someone turn their lives around is a good and honorable thing, if that person is repentant and see's the error of his ways.

In the two case's of Harding and Paul this is not case, especially for Paul since he is still living in adultery according to the Bible, and he flew to Dubai shortly after coming back to the USA to meet one of his girlfriends before coming back and getting married to Tess (another girlfriend not the one he went to see in Dubai.  (He had pictures of his trip on his facebook account until someone pointed this out then he deleted the account, but they saved the pictures and still have them).

One can on speculate on Harding's past behavior how he is living because there doesn't appear to be any change of heart from what I can see.

I personally do not know what or how Fenwick helped both of these perverts, what strings were attached for him to help etc. I don't think anyone but Fenwick and Harding/Paul really know.

I am just trying to say that we shouldn't let our feelings towards Harding/Paul automatically throw Fenwick under the bus with them. From what I know of the Fenwick's they were always willing to help.

Sometimes people that are always willing to help wind up trying to help people that are hopeless. I have done the same thing when trying to help some people that turned out to be helpless because they didn't want to change and kept throwing their lives away. There may be people that associate me with them and think I am an enabler, but that is not the case.

 

[TruthBearer]

It is interesting that Pastor Fenwick had a lengthy phone conversation with Paul's ex wife some time before his passing.

In that conversation he told her he was praying for her and Paul to get back together and that he repeatedly told Paul he can not remarry because it would not be right.

He told her Paul didn't like that but he told him he can't. 

Pastor Fenwick was surprised/shocked when she told him the things Paul was STILL doing. He said he was going to talk to Paul about that.

It is unfortunate that Ron Fenwick was used by JAV and Paul but he definitely was.

 

[TheAlvinChimpmunk]

Trimbles have joined another church. Mark will be attending a college in TX and Stephen will finish up at Heartland. Bro. Ross might be loyal but his own grandsons have left!

Ross' grandson Jesse left in 2008 when OBC was still on fire. Jesse is now a liberal and goes to a worldly church and studies under false teacher Keith Craft. Also Jesse is a worldly Christian and made Facebook Live videos defending Ross called "Don't Judge Others". On top of that Jesse worships BLM and he's a worshiper of Joe Biden as is former OBC preacher boy Joel McCarty who's now a seeker sensitive liberal megachurch pastor who also worships Biden and George Floyd.