"Luciferase"?

UGC

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Sometimes yes, but not always. No translation could do that.
I meant as a rule of principle, in reference to formal vs dynamic equivalence.
 

Ransom

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Maybe he can teach you how to read?
I'll bet that sounded funny in your pointy little head, didn't it, hurr durr hurr durr hurr.

Please, by all means, continue to convince me that the two of you collectively don't have the IQ of a single moron.
 

tmjbog

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OHHHHH snap. Greek Scholar James has arrived. (I'm joking. Partially.)

Look how the New Versions changed Hebrews 4:6 to a blatant works-only salvation!

"Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience," -NASB
"Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:" -KJV

Here's what Scrivener's TR Interlinear says the word translated as "unbelief" in the KJV means:
View attachment 998

I ran this through a concordance and guess what? It's the same Greek word used in Romans 11:32:

"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." -KJV

"unpersuadableness" is more closely "unbelief" in the English language, as "disobedience" carries natural connotation of "obedience" to rules or laws in our language.

You "obey" the laws of the government. Which is works.
You are "unpersuaded" by beliefs you don't agree with.

The New Versions will confuse the average reader into works salvation.
And below you can see the 3 instances where the KJV translated this same word as disobedience. See it's not an Alexandrian conspiracy (this time) the KJV translators did it too.

Rom 11:30
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: G543
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Rom 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, G543 that he might have mercy upon all.
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Eph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: G543
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Eph 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. G543
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Col 3:6
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: G543
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Heb 4:6
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: G543
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Heb 4:11
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. G543
 

UGC

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And below you can see the 3 instances where the KJV translated this same word as disobedience. See it's not an Alexandrian conspiracy (this time) the KJV translators did it too.
Well, this makes sense because Greek is not that simple to where the same word means the same thing in every sentence context (though as a general rule of principle, it is true that with formal equivalence, especially with the KJV, they translated the same word consistently each time unless the surrounding sentence changed its meaning significantly enough to use a different word in English, contrasted with thought-for-thought dynamic equivalence).

That's why they say "a semester of Greek is more harmful than helpful" because you get a bunch of amateurs who think they can translate better than the translators, who correct the Bible. There is wisdom in trusting the KJV translators, many of whom were fluent not only in Greek (and the Koine use of it), but multiple other languages, over Westcott and Hort's circus crew with mildly high IQ's but far further removed from the fluent use of Koine Greek in everyday language.

It's also one of the reasons I don't mess with the Greek unless it's just for fun, in addition to the fact that the Greek Texts today have been compromised with the four horsemen (Aleph, B, Bezae, P75).
 

Ransom

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Well, this makes sense because Greek is not that simple to where the same word means the same thing in every sentence context
LOL. Now do "lucifer."

BTW, which of the Wonder Twins am I writing to now? Tweedledum, or Tweedledumber?
 

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LOL. Now do "lucifer."
...That's nowhere near the same concept. Everything I said on that still holds true.
 

Ransom

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...That's nowhere near the same concept. Everything I said on that still holds true.
So, Tweedledumber, then. Thanks!
 

tmjbog

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Well, this makes sense because Greek is not that simple to where the same word means the same thing in every sentence context (though as a general rule of principle, it is true that with formal equivalence, especially with the KJV, they translated the same word consistently each time unless the surrounding sentence changed its meaning significantly enough to use a different word in English, contrasted with thought-for-thought dynamic equivalence).

That's why they say "a semester of Greek is more harmful than helpful" because you get a bunch of amateurs who think they can translate better than the translators, who correct the Bible. There is wisdom in trusting the KJV translators, many of whom were fluent not only in Greek (and the Koine use of it), but multiple other languages, over Westcott and Hort's circus crew with mildly high IQ's but far further removed from the fluent use of Koine Greek in everyday language.

It's also one of the reasons I don't mess with the Greek unless it's just for fun, in addition to the fact that the Greek Texts today have been compromised with the four horsemen (Aleph, B, Bezae, P75).
Which is the absolute best word to be used-I'm certainly not the one to ask. But is using "disobedient" a wild Alexandrian plot to uphold some Catholic or Calvinistic doctrine? Doubtful since the KJV translators also saw it as a valid interpretation of the Greek word.
 

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But is using "disobedient" a wild Alexandrian plot to uphold some Catholic or Calvinistic doctrine?
No one said anything about the means, but the ends are clear. Results are all that matter, I could care less how you get there.

"If you're REALLY saved, you WILL have works." -the average New Version reader

Notice how the KJV translators were careful not to use the word in any instance where English speakers could confuse obedient works as a requirement for salvation.
 

tmjbog

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No one said anything about the means, but the ends are clear. Results are all that matter, I could care less how you get there.

"If you're REALLY saved, you WILL have works." -the average New Version reader

Notice how the KJV translators were careful not to use the word in any instance where English speakers could confuse obedient works as a requirement for salvation.
If that's the case then I may need to rethink my views on the KJV. I assumed like the serious minded modern version they attempted to get as close to the original Greek as possible. If they truly translated with an intention to prevent or promote a particular doctrine it may not be as pure of a translation as I originally thought.
 
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