Modesty, immodesty, men and women....

[Tarheel Baptist]

Again, on the FFF, we go to extreme.
By reading some here, I might get the impression that it is not possible for a woman to dress immodestly or 'be wrong' in the way she dresses. The fault is always that of the man who simply cannot or will not control his lust....and seeks to place the blame on the female.
Surely, I'm wrong in my assumption.....

And behold, the woman meets him, dressed as a prostitute, wily of heart. She is loud and wayward;her feet do not stay at home;now in the street, now in the market, and at every corner she lies in wait. (Proverbs 7:10-12)

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

And you are just as extreme.  Everyone woman who doesn't meet your standard of modesty is a prostitute?

WHERE have I EVER said that?
Got hysteria?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The point of proverbs 7 is "don't succumb". 

24 Now therefore, listen to me, my children;
Pay attention to the words of my mouth:
25 Do not let your heart turn aside to her ways,
Do not stray into her paths;
26 For she has cast down many wounded,
And all who were slain by her were strong men.
27 Her house is the way to hell,
Descending to the chambers of death.

A prostitute is a prostitute.  It's the man's fault if he lets his heart turn to her ways.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

And you are just as extreme.  Everyone woman who doesn't meet your standard of modesty is a prostitute?

WHERE have I EVER said that?
Got hysteria?

Read Post #1 of this thread.  Unless I misunderstood why you chose that particular verse...  Please advise.

And, no, no hysteria here.  Had that removed last summer.

I think they missed some....

You illustrate my point.
I quote those verses to illustrate that Scripture does reference Immodest dress and the allure of illicit sex.

Do you think it possible for a woman to ever dress immodestly?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The point of proverbs 7 is "don't succumb". 

24 Now therefore, listen to me, my children;
Pay attention to the words of my mouth:
25 Do not let your heart turn aside to her ways,
Do not stray into her paths;
26 For she has cast down many wounded,
And all who were slain by her were strong men.
27 Her house is the way to hell,
Descending to the chambers of death.

A prostitute is a prostitute.  It's the man's fault if he lets his heart turn to her ways.

I agree! Totally!

But, my point remains....does the woman bear ANY responsibility to dress modestly?

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

The point of proverbs 7 is "don't succumb". 

24 Now therefore, listen to me, my children;
Pay attention to the words of my mouth:
25 Do not let your heart turn aside to her ways,
Do not stray into her paths;
26 For she has cast down many wounded,
And all who were slain by her were strong men.
27 Her house is the way to hell,
Descending to the chambers of death.

A prostitute is a prostitute.  It's the man's fault if he lets his heart turn to her ways.

See you make the point with your post. The Bible doesn't say she was a prostitute, you assumed that because she was dressed like a prostitute, she is one. You made a judgement based upon appearance.

It is only logical to conclude some simple things from this.

1. Prostitutes dress so people understand what they are about
2. Christian ladies should not dress like prostitutes
3. How we dress is important.

When we talk about "standards of dress", we all have them. Even TRT admits that by his very post. The question is how do we conclude what is acceptable and what is not.

 

[.tim]

Again, on the FFF, we go to extreme.
By reading some here, I might get the impression that it is not possible for a woman to dress immodestly or 'be wrong' in the way she dresses. The fault is always that of the man who simply cannot or will not control his lust....and seeks to place the blame on the female.
Surely, I'm wrong in my assumption.....

And behold, the woman meets him, dressed as a prostitute, wily of heart. She is loud and wayward;her feet do not stay at home;now in the street, now in the market, and at every corner she lies in wait. (Proverbs 7:10-12)

If a man can not control his lust .... how would this be the female's fault? A man can lust just from the sound of a woman's voice.

And as a side note ... a MAN teaching ladies how to dress is creepy.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Yes, I do believe that there is modesty and immodesty in attire. But where is the line of demarcation? I believe that is subjective.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Again, on the FFF, we go to extreme.
By reading some here, I might get the impression that it is not possible for a woman to dress immodestly or 'be wrong' in the way she dresses. The fault is always that of the man who simply cannot or will not control his lust....and seeks to place the blame on the female.
Surely, I'm wrong in my assumption.....

And behold, the woman meets him, dressed as a prostitute, wily of heart. She is loud and wayward;her feet do not stay at home;now in the street, now in the market, and at every corner she lies in wait. (Proverbs 7:10-12)

Defining immodest dress may be somewhat subjective, but to say that a woman or man never can be guilty of such is naivete to the extreme.  And as usual, your point was right, but the FFF love to measure such statements in the light of the abuses many of them faced as former IFBxers.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Again, on the FFF, we go to extreme.
By reading some here, I might get the impression that it is not possible for a woman to dress immodestly or 'be wrong' in the way she dresses. The fault is always that of the man who simply cannot or will not control his lust....and seeks to place the blame on the female.
Surely, I'm wrong in my assumption.....

And behold, the woman meets him, dressed as a prostitute, wily of heart. She is loud and wayward;her feet do not stay at home;now in the street, now in the market, and at every corner she lies in wait. (Proverbs 7:10-12)

If a man can not control his lust .... how would this be the female's fault? A man can lust just from the sound of a woman's voice.

And as a side note ... a MAN teaching ladies how to dress is creepy.

Whoosh!
The sound of my point evidently going over your head.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Yes, I do believe that there is modesty and immodesty in attire. But where is the line of demarcation? I believe that is subjective.

Thanks for the answer....
And the very nature of the subject requires the standard would be subjective.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Again, on the FFF, we go to extreme.
By reading some here, I might get the impression that it is not possible for a woman to dress immodestly or 'be wrong' in the way she dresses. The fault is always that of the man who simply cannot or will not control his lust....and seeks to place the blame on the female.
Surely, I'm wrong in my assumption.....

And behold, the woman meets him, dressed as a prostitute, wily of heart. She is loud and wayward;her feet do not stay at home;now in the street, now in the market, and at every corner she lies in wait. (Proverbs 7:10-12)

Not proposing a standard or saying the standard is objective, asking:
Is it possible for a woman to be wrong/immodest in the way she dresses?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Alayman:
Defining immodest dress may be somewhat subjective, but to say that a woman or man never can be guilty of such is naivete to the extreme.  And as usual, your point was right, but the FFF love to measure such statements in the light of the abuses many of them faced as former IFBxers.


My point, exactly! 

 

[MrsRow]

Many women dress to purposefully draw the lustful gaze of men.  Many women dress in revealing clothing because it pleases themselves and could careless about lustful gazes one way or the other.  but both are wrong, because both neglect the type of dress & clothing oneself in the way that pleases the Lord.

 

[prophet]

Modest isn't the issue.

Modest means "not costly", and the modest apparel of a godly woman is "good works".

I find the phrase "all that do so ARE an abomination" to be unique to cross-dressing, and not to involve appeal.

So that leaves the whole subject to be even more subjective.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Modest isn't the issue.

Modest means "not costly", and the modest apparel of a godly woman is "good works".

I find the phrase "all that do so ARE an abomination" to be unique to cross-dressing, and not to involve appeal.

So that leaves the whole subject to be even more subjective.

Modest is used here in the context of lust/attire of a harlot and the culture of the FFF.
Your point is true and taken....which is why I quoted Proverbs and not Timothy.

 

[prophet]

Modest isn't the issue.

Modest means "not costly", and the modest apparel of a godly woman is "good works".

I find the phrase "all that do so ARE an abomination" to be unique to cross-dressing, and not to involve appeal.

So that leaves the whole subject to be even more subjective.

Modest is used here in the context of lust/attire of a harlot and the culture of the FFF.
Your point is true and taken....which is why I quoted Proverbs and not Timothy.

In the middle east, harlotry is advertised using only the eyes, or a hand gesture.

 

[subllibrm]

Do you think it possible for a woman to ever dress immodestly?

Absolutely!

 

[prophet]

My ancestors walked around in only a breachclout, and the women were bare-breasted, but they always had a skirt to the ankles.

Try acting on your lust towards a Chickasaw woman, and you wouldn't live to explain yourself.

To me, a society's attitude towards, and prosecution of adultery is the number one determining factor in how dress affects that society.

 

[subllibrm]

The point of proverbs 7 is "don't succumb". 

24 Now therefore, listen to me, my children;
Pay attention to the words of my mouth:
25 Do not let your heart turn aside to her ways,
Do not stray into her paths;
26 For she has cast down many wounded,
And all who were slain by her were strong men.
27 Her house is the way to hell,
Descending to the chambers of death.

A prostitute is a prostitute.  It's the man's fault if he lets his heart turn to her ways.

See you make the point with your post. The Bible doesn't say she was a prostitute, you assumed that because she was dressed like a prostitute, she is one. You made a judgement based upon appearance.

It is only logical to conclude some simple things from this.

1. Prostitutes dress so people understand what they are about
2. Christian ladies should not dress like prostitutes
3. How we dress is important.

When we talk about "standards of dress", we all have them. Even TRT admits that by his very post. The question is how do we conclude what is acceptable and what is not.

Well it would appear that if the flesh "rises" so to speak then she is dressed wrong.  :