Modesty, yoga pants and myths.

[praise_yeshua]

How quickly the red herring is followed.

Lust is a sin.  Immodesty is a sin.

Why do we call evil good?  Calling lust, good, is wrong.  Calling immodesty, good, is wrong.

sorry....... but as web pointed out...... when did what you call modesty ever save a female from a mans lustful attentions in fundamentalist circles?..... ..... men in fundamentalism have been ignoring their own problem and chasing red herrings for decades....... and only now you object when you think women have pointed one out?...........

by the way...... check pauls description of modesty......check out what it meant in the time of king james......  it wasn;t anything at all like what men have made it out to be in this century........ and again... men misinterpreting modesty have focused on a wrong definition... (or a red herring)... to shift blame and responsibility away from themselves onto someone else............

I have a friend that went on to glory..... that use to say that some men would lust after a women if she was wearing a full length burlap sack.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Why is this so hard?  Why do you only want to acknowledge that one statement is true, but not the other?

If I dress immodestly, it is my sin.

If I lust, it is my sin.

Both are sin.

Your lust is not my sin.  Your immodesty is not my sin.

You are, of course, exactly right.
Every man and woman will give an account of themselves to God.
You forget, as someone else said, where you are....

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Why is this so hard?  Why do you only want to acknowledge that one statement is true, but not the other?

If I dress immodestly, it is my sin.

If I lust, it is my sin.

Both are sin.

Your lust is not my sin.  Your immodesty is not my sin.

and yet the whole thing is entirely your problem..... ...... it;s all about your lust.... and what is happening in your heart...... .. . .... why do you continue to try and focus the blame on someone else?......... ....

look at the way this thread was started and look at how many responses are from men blaming either women for dressing immodestly for the things they think of and do... or blaming what is happening in the culture for it all... .........how many men responding to this thread have admitted the problem lies in their own heart and that  they need to learn to control their own lust?........ .......

aleshanee,

I think you are reading my posts and responding with a pre-conceived notion of what my response will be, without actually reading my post.  I have already stated several times that lust is sin.  I agree with you that lust is sin.  Immodesty is also sin.

If I lust over a shapely young woman who is walking down the street stark naked, it is my sin.
However, immodesty is also sin.  If I walk down the street stark naked, it is my sin. 

We must admit that both are sin.  Allow me to present the same truth in a different scenario:  Suppose Person A is bearing false witness against his neighbor, Person B, and saying all manner of evil against him.  Person B responds by killing Person A.  Who has sinned?  The answer, of course, is both.  They are both sins against God.

Both lust and immodesty are sins against God.

 

[Fresh Air]

Aleshanee,

You are doing a wonderful example of illustrating the absurdity of taking a one-sided position. And it is as equally unbalanced of you as it would be of a man who took the position that it is the woman's fault for how she dresses. The proper response to an imbalance is not the opposite imbalance. It is balance.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Why is this so hard?  Why do you only want to acknowledge that one statement is true, but not the other?

If I dress immodestly, it is my sin.

If I lust, it is my sin.

Both are sin.

Your lust is not my sin.  Your immodesty is not my sin.

and yet the whole thing is entirely your problem..... ...... it;s all about your lust.... and what is happening in your heart...... .. . .... why do you continue to try and focus the blame on someone else?......... ....

look at the way this thread was started and look at how many responses are from men blaming either women for dressing immodestly for the things they think of and do... or blaming what is happening in the culture for it all... .........how many men responding to this thread have admitted the problem lies in their own heart and that  they need to learn to control their own lust?........ .......

aleshanee,

I think you are reading my posts and responding with a pre-conceived notion of what my response will be, without actually reading my post.  I have already stated several times that lust is sin.  I agree with you that lust is sin.  Immodesty is also sin.

If I lust over a shapely young woman who is walking down the street stark naked, it is my sin.
However, immodesty is also sin.  If I walk down the street stark naked, it is my sin. 

We must admit that both are sin.  Allow me to present the same truth in a different scenario:  Suppose Person A is bearing false witness against his neighbor, Person B, and saying all manner of evil against him.  Person B responds by killing Person A.  Who has sinned?  The answer, of course, is both.  They are both sins against God.

Both lust and immodesty are sins against God.

that is a false and unjust comparison .......worse even that comparing apples and oranges...... .

consider it this way......... if you walk into a bank and see an open bag of money... clearly marked with the banks logo.... but left open and unguarded.....  and you covet that money wishing you could take it....... who committed the sin?....... ... the person who let it out of their sight?.... or you for desiring something that does not belong to you?....

now take it a step further and lets say you actually pick up that bag of money and run out the door with it......... who is the law going to prosecute?......... you for stealing money?.......... or the person who it belonged to but didn;t guard it well enough?..............

and just how well does it have to be guarded to be considered guarded well enough?......... you know from the start it doesn;t belong you..... just like you know the women you see on the street who you think might not be dressed modestly don;t belong to you............ yet it makes no more sense to try and apply equal blame to those women for the lust you have in your heart than it would be to blame the owner of the money you felt you had to steal just because you saw it......

I think that modesty is defined in many ways.
Proverbs speaks of the dress of a harlot, which was much different then than it is now. Bottom line, a man is responsible for his thought life and his lust problem. A man's thought life and his lust can be exacerbated by the dress of a female. Sometimes, with no knowledge or intent on her part. Sometimes, women know exactly what they are doing. Lust is sin. Dressing in order to inspire lust in men is sin, IMO.

At the end of the day, we each give an account of OURSELVES to God.

 

[Bruh]

Why is this so hard?  Why do you only want to acknowledge that one statement is true, but not the other?

If I dress immodestly, it is my sin.

If I lust, it is my sin.

Both are sin.

Your lust is not my sin.  Your immodesty is not my sin.

and yet the whole thing is entirely your problem..... ...... it;s all about your lust.... and what is happening in your heart...... .. . .... why do you continue to try and focus the blame on someone else?......... ....

look at the way this thread was started and look at how many responses are from men blaming either women for dressing immodestly for the things they think of and do... or blaming what is happening in the culture for it all... .........how many men responding to this thread have admitted the problem lies in their own heart and that  they need to learn to control their own lust?........ .......

aleshanee,

I think you are reading my posts and responding with a pre-conceived notion of what my response will be, without actually reading my post.  I have already stated several times that lust is sin.  I agree with you that lust is sin.  Immodesty is also sin.

If I lust over a shapely young woman who is walking down the street stark naked, it is my sin.
However, immodesty is also sin.  If I walk down the street stark naked, it is my sin. 

We must admit that both are sin.  Allow me to present the same truth in a different scenario:  Suppose Person A is bearing false witness against his neighbor, Person B, and saying all manner of evil against him.  Person B responds by killing Person A.  Who has sinned?  The answer, of course, is both.  They are both sins against God.

Both lust and immodesty are sins against God.

that is a false and unjust comparison .......worse even that comparing apples and oranges...... .

consider it this way......... if you walk into a bank and see an open bag of money... clearly marked with the banks logo.... but left open and unguarded.....  and you covet that money wishing you could take it....... who committed the sin?....... ... the person who let it out of their sight?.... or you for desiring something that does not belong to you?....

now take it a step further and lets say you actually pick up that bag of money and run out the door with it......... who is the law going to prosecute?......... you for stealing money?.......... or the person who it belonged to but didn;t guard it well enough?..............

and just how well does it have to be guarded to be considered guarded well enough?......... you know from the start it doesn;t belong you..... just like you know the women you see on the street who you think might not be dressed modestly don;t belong to you............ yet it makes no more sense to try and apply equal blame to those women for the lust you have in your heart than it would be to blame the owner of the money you felt you had to steal just because you saw it......

If the person who put, the open bag of money, knew I was going to covet and sin.....why would that person put the money our like that?

 

[Billy]

Is it possible for men to have a discussion about immodest dress in certain females, while acknowledging it's our lustful nature that notices said immodest dress?


Thanks,


Billy 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Aleshanee,

You are doing a wonderful example of illustrating the absurdity of taking a one-sided position. And it is as equally unbalanced of you as it would be of a man who took the position that it is the woman's fault for how she dresses. The proper response to an imbalance is not the opposite imbalance. It is balance.

Ah, so YOU are the Sphinx.

(Cut to Furious balancing a hammer on his head.)

Furious: Why am I doing this again?

Sphinx: When you can balance a tack hammer on your head, you will head off your foes with a balanced attack.

Furious: And why am I wearing the watermelon on my feet?

Sphinx: I don't remember telling you to do that.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

consider it this way......... if you walk into a bank and see an open bag of money... clearly marked with the banks logo.... but left open and unguarded.....  and you covet that money wishing you could take it....... who committed the sin?....... ... the person who let it out of their sight?.... or you for desiring something that does not belong to you?....

now take it a step further and lets say you actually pick up that bag of money and run out the door with it......... who is the law going to prosecute?......... you for stealing money?.......... or the person who it belonged to but didn;t guard it well enough?..............

and just how well does it have to be guarded to be considered guarded well enough?......... you know from the start it doesn;t belong you..... just like you know the women you see on the street who you think might not be dressed modestly don;t belong to you............ yet it makes no more sense to try and apply equal blame to those women for the lust you have in your heart than it would be to blame the owner of the money you felt you had to steal just because you saw it......

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The one taking the money would be prosecuted.  The one who left it out would be fired.  Both did wrong.

Our sin is not unto men.  Our sin is unto God.  God hold you accountable for your lust and me accountable for my immodesty.

I know that many of us have grown up in a situation where people denied their ability to sin and blamed their sin on other people.  Such situations are wicked.  This does not mean that God now permits sin because someone once claimed they had no sin.

We each are accountable to God and God alone for our sin.

 

[Bruh]

Is it possible for men to have a discussion about immodest dress in certain females, while acknowledging it's our lustful nature that notices said immodest dress?


Thanks,


Billy

Yes, this has been acknowledged a few times already.

 

[Recovering IFB]

But yet, they blame the immodesty of the harlots

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I'm going to go pop some popcorn.  This debate has to reference camel toe sooner or later and I want to be prepared. 

 

[Bruh]

Why is this so hard?  Why do you only want to acknowledge that one statement is true, but not the other?

If I dress immodestly, it is my sin.

If I lust, it is my sin.

Both are sin.

Your lust is not my sin.  Your immodesty is not my sin.

and yet the whole thing is entirely your problem..... ...... it;s all about your lust.... and what is happening in your heart...... .. . .... why do you continue to try and focus the blame on someone else?......... ....

look at the way this thread was started and look at how many responses are from men blaming either women for dressing immodestly for the things they think of and do... or blaming what is happening in the culture for it all... .........how many men responding to this thread have admitted the problem lies in their own heart and that  they need to learn to control their own lust?........ .......

aleshanee,

I think you are reading my posts and responding with a pre-conceived notion of what my response will be, without actually reading my post.  I have already stated several times that lust is sin.  I agree with you that lust is sin.  Immodesty is also sin.

If I lust over a shapely young woman who is walking down the street stark naked, it is my sin.
However, immodesty is also sin.  If I walk down the street stark naked, it is my sin. 

We must admit that both are sin.  Allow me to present the same truth in a different scenario:  Suppose Person A is bearing false witness against his neighbor, Person B, and saying all manner of evil against him.  Person B responds by killing Person A.  Who has sinned?  The answer, of course, is both.  They are both sins against God.

Both lust and immodesty are sins against God.

that is a false and unjust comparison .......worse even that comparing apples and oranges...... .

consider it this way......... if you walk into a bank and see an open bag of money... clearly marked with the banks logo.... but left open and unguarded.....  and you covet that money wishing you could take it....... who committed the sin?....... ... the person who let it out of their sight?.... or you for desiring something that does not belong to you?....

now take it a step further and lets say you actually pick up that bag of money and run out the door with it......... who is the law going to prosecute?......... you for stealing money?.......... or the person who it belonged to but didn;t guard it well enough?..............

and just how well does it have to be guarded to be considered guarded well enough?......... you know from the start it doesn;t belong you..... just like you know the women you see on the street who you think might not be dressed modestly don;t belong to you............ yet it makes no more sense to try and apply equal blame to those women for the lust you have in your heart than it would be to blame the owner of the money you felt you had to steal just because you saw it......

If the person who put, the open bag of money, knew I was going to covet and sin.....why would that person put the money our like that?

so..... is that your way of saying ... the devil made me do it?...... funny how fundamentalists don;t accept that excuse on any other sin issue.... but they rush in with enthusiasm to use it on this one.........

do you walk into a bank with the assumption that any money you see out in the open or unattended is there to try and make you take it?............ then why do you assume every woman dressed in a way you find distracting to be intentionally trying to make you lust?.......... ...... that;s another fallacy that only takes root in the male mind.....  "if they are letting me see it... then it must be for sale...".....  .... i know guys who also think that any woman who makes eye contact with them and smiles wants to jump in bed with them.......  do you believe that is true?.......

I believe that there're many many women that do not intentionally try to make men lust. I've been married now for 13 short years and my wife doesn't for sure think like her husband when it comes to these things. But because she is married to me she now knows how men think she doesn't understand it, but she knows.

And no, I do not believe that just because a woman makes eye contact with me wants me.

 

[Bruh]

But yet, they blame the immodesty of the harlots

Nope it's the our own hearts that is to blame.

 

[Recovering IFB]

But yet, they blame the immodesty of the harlots

Nope it's the our own hearts that is to blame.

Then why is this thread continuing?

 

[Bruh]

But yet, they blame the immodesty of the harlots

Nope it's the our own hearts that is to blame.

Then why is this thread continuing?

Because I'm sitting in my recliner and bored.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Is there *ANY* standard at all for modesty and/or

immodesty?  Can a person walk down the street buck naked (male OR female) and be modest?


And for the record, I've said it before, TRT crosses the lines of appropriateness regularly, and it usually revolves around some crude sexual innuendo or double entendre.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Is there *ANY* standard at all for modesty and/or

immodesty?  Can a person walk down the street buck naked (male OR female) and be modest?

It depends on who that person is and who's watching.

Purposely wearing something revealing for the express intent of arousing desire is wrong. Whether it a man or a women...... everything else.... it depends.

And for the record, I've said it before, TRT crosses the lines of appropriateness regularly, and it usually revolves around some crude sexual innuendo or double entendre.

He is rather "bold" at times... 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Is there *ANY* standard at all for modesty and/or

immodesty?  Can a person walk down the street buck naked (male OR female) and be modest?

It depends on who that person is and who's watching.

Purposely wearing something revealing for the express intent of arousing desire is wrong. Whether it a man or a women...... everything else.... it depends.

And for the record, I've said it before, TRT crosses the lines of appropriateness regularly, and it usually revolves around some crude sexual innuendo or double entendre.

He is rather "bold" at times... 

It's my sense of humor.  It works for some audiences, not for others.  I'll have to adjust my material to the audience. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

But yet, they blame the immodesty of the harlots

How Freudian.