Music - moral, immoral, or amoral?

[ItinerantPreacher]

Riiight. So I say that King's X was never a Christian band and Doug Pinnick does not call himself a Christian, and you, by way of refutation, post interviews that say King's X was not a Christian band and Doug Pinnick does not call himself a Christian.

I'll just pretend I was refuted. No, on second thought, I won't.

http://www.classicrockrevisited.com/show_interview.php?id=972

King’s X made a big splash as a Christian rock band in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s. While they like to downplay their Christian status today, even claiming that the early records were not necessarily religious, they were, nonetheless, considered a Christian rock group by the record buying public back in the day. 

http://www.fromoutofnowhere.com/dug0606.html

People just didn’t get it…. I mean, we were Christians when we first started.  And that was our faith and that’s what we believed in.  We tried to go by the rules.  And we believed the whole bit about Jesus.

Gotta do your reading for you?

 

[Patebald]

I think music is amoral...but the people who perform it aren't.....I wouldn't buy fifty cent's CD of hymns.

This actually a very cognitive point.


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[rsc2a]

Clearly a song that has theology exclusive to Rome....

Lord, I come, I confess
Bowing here I find my rest
Without You I fall apart
You're the One that guides my heart

Lord, I need You, oh, I need You
Every hour I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You

Where sin runs deep Your grace is more
Where grace is found is where You are
And where You are, Lord, I am free
Holiness is Christ in me

Lord, I need You, oh, I need You
Every hour I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You

Teach my song to rise to You
When temptation comes my way
And when I cannot stand I'll fall on You
Jesus, You're my hope and stay

Lord, I need You, oh, I need You
Every hour I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You

You're my one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You

....or something like that.

 

[Ransom]

King’s X made a big splash as a Christian rock band . . . they were, nonetheless, considered a Christian rock group by the record buying public back in the day.

You'll note that this is the Web site and the "record buying public" saying this, not the members of King's X themselves. Once again, another FAIL (0/5) for failure to comprehend.

    I mean, we were Christians when we first started.  And that was our faith and that’s what we believed in.  We tried to go by the rules.  And we believed the whole bit about Jesus.

Gotta do your reading for you?

Perhaps your attention span is a little too short to recall that I said Doug Pinnock no longer considers himself a Christian, so it's probably quite understandable that you think you are disagreeing with me, when in fact you are proving my point for me. That's entirely OK! I realize I only mentioned it twice. Don't worry; when you actually grasp the meaning of the words, I'll give you a nice Milk-Bone.

For oblivious lack of comprehension: your pass/fail ratio  has now reached 0/6.

 

[rsc2a]

How Rome-ish...

Let no one caught in sin remain
Inside the lie of inward shame
We fix our eyes upon the cross
And run to him who showed great love
And bled for us
Freely you bled, for us

Christ is risen from the dead
Trampling over death by death
Come awake, come awake!
Come and rise up from the grave!

Christ is risen from the dead
We are one with him again
Come awake, come awake!
Come and rise up from the grave!

Beneath the weight of all our sin
You bow to none but heavens will
No scheme of hell, no scoffer's crown
No burden great can hold you down
In strength you reign
Forever let your church proclaim

Christ is risen from the dead
Trampling over death by death
Come awake, come awake!
Come and rise up from the grave

Christ is risen from the dead
We are one with him again
Come awake, come awake!
Come and rise up from the grave

Oh death! Where is your sting?
Oh hell! Where is your victory?
Oh Church! Come stand in the light!
The glory of God has defeated the night!

Oh death! Where is your sting?
Oh hell! Where is your victory?
Oh Church! Come stand in the light!
Our God is not dead, he's alive! he's alive!

Christ is risen from the dead
Trampling over death by death
Come awake, come awake!
Come and rise up from the grave
Christ is risen from the dead
We are one with him again
Come awake, come awake!
Come and rise up from the grave

Rise up from the grave...

 

[rsc2a]

It looks like someone needs to take a closer look at their own hymnal/sources before they go down the road of "The composer is Catholic...."

Harry Emerson Fosdick was a liberal unbeliever
D. R. Van Sickle was an unbeliever

Should Bob Jones University never use music written by Mozart?

All Creature of Our God and King - Catholic
A Mighty Fortress is our God - Lutheran
Amazing Grace - Anglican
Doxology - Anglican
Just as I am - (another) Anglican
It is well with my soul - Presbyterian
How Great thou Art - Mission Covenant (quasi-Lutheran)
O for a thousand tongues to sing - Methodist
Hark! The herald.... - Methodist
Be thou my vision - Catholic

There are ten off the top of my head. There are lots and lots more.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

*snip (Original Post)

First of all let me say that this is the most well-written summation of the "anti-CCM" argument that I've ever seen. Thank you for being a gentleman and a scholar.

I disagree with a few things though and I have questions about a few more.
You said:

I believe one of the most significant questions to ask is "what emotion or sensation do the notes produce?" Consider the music in any movie. It is there to set emotional context to the scene. Whether upbeat, dark, joyous, moody, suspenseful, angry or whatever mood or emotion you wish to portray, this is achieved through the notes and their arrangement. To suggest the music plays no part in the movies dramatization is to ignore the obvious.

I agree with this. But you never stated what emotions are bad and which are good. (You named some specific songs but alas, I am not familiar with any of them). It seems maybe you think music that incites one to dance is bad? (forgive me if I am mis-representing your argument) What scripture would give you that indication? I find several scriptures in which dancing is mentioned right along with those praising God in song.

Also,

Thirdly the performer. Does this matter? If it doesn't then Iron Maiden or Pantera or Judas Priest or Justin Bieber or MC Hammer makes no difference. Doesn't wash with me.

I don't understand? Are you saying that if MC Hammer sings Amazing Grace then the song is bad?
I really don't get what relationship the performer has to the morality of the music.
Maybe you mean that it's wrong to listen to certain performers perform good songs?

I don't let unbelievers or grossly sinful people minister to me, at least not knowingly.

How do you define "grossly sinful"? Is it arbitrary or Biblical?
Apparently unknowingly is ok though right?

Let's use Chris Tomlin as an example. I know absolutely nothing about Chris Tomlin's life. I don't know his marriage situation, his church situation, his beliefs, etc. However, I rather enjoy much of his music. Are you suggesting that in order for me to be blessed by his ministry that I should research more into his life and if not then I have sinned by listening to his music?
Is that Biblical?

Lastly, and this may not be your position but I've heard people use it and it's always seemed absurd so I'm wondering if you could give your thoughts: If the only 1 of the three elements immoral about a song is the performer and I change the performer to a moral performer then is the music now moral?
I don't see how you could say "no". (For example I take a CCM song with "moral" lyrics and "moral" music sung by a homosexual and I sing it in my church - certainly that's ok right?)

Could you address these points IP?

 

[Ransom]

All Creature of Our God and King - Catholic
Be thou my vision - Catholic

Antichrist!

A Mighty Fortress is our God - Lutheran
How Great thou Art - Mission Covenant (quasi-Lutheran)

Lutheran = Catholic lite.

Amazing Grace - Anglican
Doxology - Anglican
Just as I am - (another) Anglican

Anglican = Catholic-not-as-lite-as-Lutheran.

It is well with my soul - Presbyterian
O for a thousand tongues to sing - Methodist
Hark! The herald.... - Methodist

Presbyterian & Methodist = Protestant daughters of the Great Whore.

Guess I gots me some hymnal-burnin to do.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

So if Itinerant Preacher won't answer me (or Ransom) does that mean I win?

Has he abandoned his position?

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

So if Itinerant Preacher won't answer me (or Ransom) does that mean I win?

Has he abandoned his position?

Nope. My wifes water broke. your only getting short answers for a bit here. Otherwise occupied.

 

[lnf]

Prayers for you and your wife, as she labors to bring a blessed addition into your family. 

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Prayers for you and your wife, as she labors to bring a blessed addition into your family. 

Thanks. Healthy baby boy born yesterday afternoon. Mom and baby doing well, Lord willing they are coming home today.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Prayers for you and your wife, as she labors to bring a blessed addition into your family. 

Thanks. Healthy baby boy born yesterday afternoon. Mom and baby doing well, Lord willing they are coming home today.

Good to hear!