Nicolaitan

[Tarheel Baptist]

What I have learned from this thread.

Any man who holds the title pastor is by default seeking to lord it over other believers. As bad as that is it gets worse. Most of them get paid to do it and feel justified in taking a paycheck in return for abusing the flock. The sheep should all have a say in where they are going to graze and have no need for a leader outside of Jesus. Since they are all believers filled with the Holy Spirit there is never disagreement or dissension unless there is a pastor there to muck things up. The flock should be no bigger that what will fit in a medium sized house.

Some, not all of that drivel comes from those who wish they could but can't, so they don't want anyone else to.
Which is why I'm against College or NFL football.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

What I have learned from this thread.

Any man who holds the title pastor is by default seeking to lord it over other believers. As bad as that is it gets worse. Most of them get paid to do it and feel justified in taking a paycheck in return for abusing the flock. The sheep should all have a say in where they are going to graze and have no need for a leader outside of Jesus. Since they are all believers filled with the Holy Spirit there is never disagreement or dissension unless there is a pastor there to muck things up. The flock should be no bigger that what will fit in a medium sized house.

Some, not all of that drivel comes from those who wish they could but can't, so they don't want anyone else to.
Which is why I'm against College or NFL football.

Just curious about something: why do you assume that people who hold to the home church ideal own their beliefs simply out of jealousy? You keep hitting the same point as if being a pastor is a position that is to be envied. I certainly WOULDN'T WANT such. Just not my cup of tea. But neither would I want to be a police officer, or a roofer either. I think it would be cool to be an NFL quarterback, however.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

What I have learned from this thread.

Any man who holds the title pastor is by default seeking to lord it over other believers. As bad as that is it gets worse. Most of them get paid to do it and feel justified in taking a paycheck in return for abusing the flock. The sheep should all have a say in where they are going to graze and have no need for a leader outside of Jesus. Since they are all believers filled with the Holy Spirit there is never disagreement or dissension unless there is a pastor there to muck things up. The flock should be no bigger that what will fit in a medium sized house.

Some, not all of that drivel comes from those who wish they could but can't, so they don't want anyone else to.
Which is why I'm against College or NFL football.

Just curious about something: why do you assume that people who hold to the home church ideal own their beliefs simply out of jealousy? You keep hitting the same point as if being a pastor is a position that is to be envied. I certainly WOULDN'T WANT such. Just not my cup of tea. But neither would I want to be a police officer, or a roofer either. I think it would be cool to be an NFL quarterback, however.

Same here.  I've stated several times that I have no desire to be a pastor or leader. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

What I have learned from this thread.

Any man who holds the title pastor is by default seeking to lord it over other believers. As bad as that is it gets worse. Most of them get paid to do it and feel justified in taking a paycheck in return for abusing the flock. The sheep should all have a say in where they are going to graze and have no need for a leader outside of Jesus. Since they are all believers filled with the Holy Spirit there is never disagreement or dissension unless there is a pastor there to muck things up. The flock should be no bigger that what will fit in a medium sized house.

Some, not all of that drivel comes from those who wish they could but can't, so they don't want anyone else to.
Which is why I'm against College or NFL football.

Just curious about something: why do you assume that people who hold to the home church ideal own their beliefs simply out of jealousy? You keep hitting the same point as if being a pastor is a position that is to be envied. I certainly WOULDN'T WANT such. Just not my cup of tea. But neither would I want to be a police officer, or a roofer either. I think it would be cool to be an NFL quarterback, however.

Do you, Mater and the other kitchen table advocates believe that traditional church Pastors are power hungry, money grubbing, lazy and shiftless? You keep hitting the same point as if a position of Pastor is to be belittled.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

What I have learned from this thread.

Any man who holds the title pastor is by default seeking to lord it over other believers. As bad as that is it gets worse. Most of them get paid to do it and feel justified in taking a paycheck in return for abusing the flock. The sheep should all have a say in where they are going to graze and have no need for a leader outside of Jesus. Since they are all believers filled with the Holy Spirit there is never disagreement or dissension unless there is a pastor there to muck things up. The flock should be no bigger that what will fit in a medium sized house.

Some, not all of that drivel comes from those who wish they could but can't, so they don't want anyone else to.
Which is why I'm against College or NFL football.

Just curious about something: why do you assume that people who hold to the home church ideal own their beliefs simply out of jealousy? You keep hitting the same point as if being a pastor is a position that is to be envied. I certainly WOULDN'T WANT such. Just not my cup of tea. But neither would I want to be a police officer, or a roofer either. I think it would be cool to be an NFL quarterback, however.

Do you, Mater and the other kitchen table advocates believe that traditional church Pastors are power hungry, money grubbing, lazy and shiftless? You keep hitting the same point as if a position of Pastor is to be belittled.

Can't speak for anyone else on this forum, but no, I don't hold to that idea. I currently attend a "regular" church and not a home-based assembly. The pastor is one of the most humble, sincere guys I know. I had another former pastor who was truly a servant to people.

I do believe that there are many clergy (of ALL religious stripes) that are like what you described above but I certainly don't believe all clergy attain their positions with greed in mind.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

...Pastors are power hungry, money grubbing, lazy and shiftless...

Great job summarizing the IFB!  Not all, mind you, but the summarized most!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

What I have learned from this thread.

Any man who holds the title pastor is by default seeking to lord it over other believers. As bad as that is it gets worse. Most of them get paid to do it and feel justified in taking a paycheck in return for abusing the flock. The sheep should all have a say in where they are going to graze and have no need for a leader outside of Jesus. Since they are all believers filled with the Holy Spirit there is never disagreement or dissension unless there is a pastor there to muck things up. The flock should be no bigger that what will fit in a medium sized house.

Some, not all of that drivel comes from those who wish they could but can't, so they don't want anyone else to.
Which is why I'm against College or NFL football.

Just curious about something: why do you assume that people who hold to the home church ideal own their beliefs simply out of jealousy? You keep hitting the same point as if being a pastor is a position that is to be envied. I certainly WOULDN'T WANT such. Just not my cup of tea. But neither would I want to be a police officer, or a roofer either. I think it would be cool to be an NFL quarterback, however.

Do you, Mater and the other kitchen table advocates believe that traditional church Pastors are power hungry, money grubbing, lazy and shiftless? You keep hitting the same point as if a position of Pastor is to be belittled.

Well, I wouldn't say shiftless. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

What I have learned from this thread.

Any man who holds the title pastor is by default seeking to lord it over other believers. As bad as that is it gets worse. Most of them get paid to do it and feel justified in taking a paycheck in return for abusing the flock. The sheep should all have a say in where they are going to graze and have no need for a leader outside of Jesus. Since they are all believers filled with the Holy Spirit there is never disagreement or dissension unless there is a pastor there to muck things up. The flock should be no bigger that what will fit in a medium sized house.

Some, not all of that drivel comes from those who wish they could but can't, so they don't want anyone else to.
Which is why I'm against College or NFL football.

Just curious about something: why do you assume that people who hold to the home church ideal own their beliefs simply out of jealousy? You keep hitting the same point as if being a pastor is a position that is to be envied. I certainly WOULDN'T WANT such. Just not my cup of tea. But neither would I want to be a police officer, or a roofer either. I think it would be cool to be an NFL quarterback, however.

Do you, Mater and the other kitchen table advocates believe that traditional church Pastors are power hungry, money grubbing, lazy and shiftless? You keep hitting the same point as if a position of Pastor is to be belittled.

Well, I wouldn't say shiftless.

I'd say more like envy.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

What I have learned from this thread.

Any man who holds the title pastor is by default seeking to lord it over other believers. As bad as that is it gets worse. Most of them get paid to do it and feel justified in taking a paycheck in return for abusing the flock. The sheep should all have a say in where they are going to graze and have no need for a leader outside of Jesus. Since they are all believers filled with the Holy Spirit there is never disagreement or dissension unless there is a pastor there to muck things up. The flock should be no bigger that what will fit in a medium sized house.

Some, not all of that drivel comes from those who wish they could but can't, so they don't want anyone else to.
Which is why I'm against College or NFL football.

Just curious about something: why do you assume that people who hold to the home church ideal own their beliefs simply out of jealousy? You keep hitting the same point as if being a pastor is a position that is to be envied. I certainly WOULDN'T WANT such. Just not my cup of tea. But neither would I want to be a police officer, or a roofer either. I think it would be cool to be an NFL quarterback, however.

Do you, Mater and the other kitchen table advocates believe that traditional church Pastors are power hungry, money grubbing, lazy and shiftless? You keep hitting the same point as if a position of Pastor is to be belittled.

Well, I wouldn't say shiftless.

I'd say more like envy.

(As Ronald Reagan): "There you go again."

 

[subllibrm]

What I have learned from this thread (and others):

Since there is no scriptural support for an assembly consisting of a single pastor/preacher/orator giving a sermon to a silent, passive laity, the only way to defend this model is to mock the alternatives, despite the fact that the alternatives more closely resemble the New Testament assembly.

And since I am on record as being opposed to the MOG model and am a proponent of a plurality of elders; and since I have asked serious questions on significant issues regarding church polity outside of the traditional congregation model; and since those questions have been answered with snark and ridicule, I have come to believe that you would rather be mad than expend any effort to edify anyone on the subject. You tell us what is wrong with everything and everyone else but refuse to answer even the simplest question regarding how you are doing it correctly and what that looks like at a practical level.

You have found the answer and would rather condemn those who haven't than share the blessing of what you have discovered.