Ohio church calls new pastor.

[no value]

Notice he said he went to bible college near Chicago without naming the school. He isn't the first HAC grad (actually I dont think he graduated) that doesn't want to mention the name of his alma mater.

I'm not saying that he has chosen an easy life or that he's not a "stand-up guy" (whatever that means).

I am saying that committing adultery disqualifies one for the pastorate.  He gave up the privilege of pastoring when he chose to commit adultery.

I'm happy for him if he has repented of his sin and made it right - but let him preach on the street, in nursing homes, in prison, but pastoring - no.

Says who? What makes adultery the scarlet letter? Yeah it's a grievous sin. And, depending on the circumstances (and the people involved) perhaps its of a degree that pastoring isn't the wisest of positions. That being said---what about the grace of God forgiving someone?

These blanket statements that "just because someone did this or that, then, they can never..." wearies me.

 

[FSSL]

Ask your local law enforcement agency. There is A very good reason they keep your criminal record.

But does God keep records? You quoted Mark Twain and now give an illustration of how a secular society keeps records, but ignore the possibility of progressive sanctification.

Believe me... I am VERY reluctant to see a person go back into vocational ministry. I share many of the same cautions. Yet, I have seen where it does work out. I don't have a scriptural basis  for preventing the reentry of a person into the pulpit, when...

1) Their reestablished character has shown them to be a "one woman kind of man."
2) A substantial length of time has intervened and perseverance is evident.
3) I see a difference between an adulterer and  one who committed the sin. Is there a continued habit of sexual problems or improprietories?

So, where I am at on this issue is: I firmly believe that God's grace is strong enough to reconcile this. I am not in the place to judge those who go back in. A lingering question (probably among most of us is) "Do these pastors go back into full-time vocational ministry because that is all they know to do?" That certainly gives me pause to wonder.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Notice he said he went to bible college near Chicago without naming the school. He isn't the first HAC grad (actually I dont think he graduated) that doesn't want to mention the name of his alma mater.

I'm not saying that he has chosen an easy life or that he's not a "stand-up guy" (whatever that means).

I am saying that committing adultery disqualifies one for the pastorate.  He gave up the privilege of pastoring when he chose to commit adultery.

I'm happy for him if he has repented of his sin and made it right - but let him preach on the street, in nursing homes, in prison, but pastoring - no.

Says who? What makes adultery the scarlet letter? Yeah it's a grievous sin. And, depending on the circumstances (and the people involved) perhaps its of a degree that pastoring isn't the wisest of positions. That being said---what about the grace of God forgiving someone?

These blanket statements that "just because someone did this or that, then, they can never..." wearies me.

Returning someone to Pastoring is not the same as forgiving him.
Adultery/sexual sin is spoken of specifically in 1 Cor. 6, (I think).

You're not marty, are you?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Ask your local law enforcement agency. There is A very good reason they keep your criminal record.

But does God keep records? You quoted Mark Twain and now give an illustration of how a secular society keeps records, but ignore the possibility of progressive sanctification.

Believe me... I am VERY reluctant to see a person go back into vocational ministry. I share many of the same cautions. Yet, I have seen where it does work out. I don't have a scriptural basis  for preventing the reentry of a person into the pulpit, when...

1) Their reestablished character has shown them to be a "one woman kind of man."
2) A substantial length of time has intervened and perseverance is evident.
3) I see a difference between an adulterer and  one who committed the sin. Is there a continued habit of sexual problems or improprietories?

So, where I am at on this issue is: I firmly believe that God's grace is strong enough to reconcile this. I am not in the place to judge those who go back in. A lingering question (probably among most of us is) "Do these pastors go back into full-time vocational ministry because that is all they know to do?" That certainly gives me pause to wonder.

I see and mostly agree with your post...in principle.
I would be very hesitant to be a part of placing someone who committed adultery while Pastoring back into the position of  Pastor. As opposed to your experience, my personal experience is that adultery re-occurred in every instance.

 

[FSSL]

I would be very hesitant to be a part of placing someone who committed adultery while Pastoring back into the position of  Pastor. As opposed to your experience, my personal experience is that adultery re-occurred in every instance.

Yeah... that is what usually happens. I agree. Practically speaking, I am far stricter than my theology.

I don't know why someone would seek that position again.

 

[no value]

Notice he said he went to bible college near Chicago without naming the school. He isn't the first HAC grad (actually I dont think he graduated) that doesn't want to mention the name of his alma mater.

You're not marty, are you?

What if I am? Would that matter?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

no value:
What if I am (Marty)? Would that matter?

Yes.

 

[no value]

no value:
What if I am (Marty)? Would that matter?

Yes.
Why would it matter? Doesn't a person have the right to defend their self?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

no value:
What if I am (Marty)? Would that matter?

Yes.
Why would it matter? Doesn't a person have the right to defend their self?

Of course they do.
But, when defending themselves, they tend to have tunnel vision.
My experience with Marty is that he not only has tunnel vision, he is narcissistic  and devious.

So, are you marty?

 

[Walt]

Notice he said he went to bible college near Chicago without naming the school. He isn't the first HAC grad (actually I dont think he graduated) that doesn't want to mention the name of his alma mater.

I'm not saying that he has chosen an easy life or that he's not a "stand-up guy" (whatever that means).

I am saying that committing adultery disqualifies one for the pastorate.  He gave up the privilege of pastoring when he chose to commit adultery.

I'm happy for him if he has repented of his sin and made it right - but let him preach on the street, in nursing homes, in prison, but pastoring - no.

Says who? What makes adultery the scarlet letter? Yeah it's a grievous sin. And, depending on the circumstances (and the people involved) perhaps its of a degree that pastoring isn't the wisest of positions. That being said---what about the grace of God forgiving someone?

These blanket statements that "just because someone did this or that, then, they can never..." wearies me.

God can certainly forgive the most heinous sinner, but that doesn't mean that the consequences go away.  God put away David's sin of adultery and murder, but he had to deal with consequences for the remainder of his life.

These ideas are being discussed on a separate thread.  One of the problems is that we are prone to be affected by the society we live in -- adultery and divorce used to be horrific scandals; it used to be that a young woman who found herself "in trouble" (as they used to say) would sometimes prefer to kill herself than live with the shame.  We've kind of swung way to the other end of that pendulum now; it's almost fashionable to have a child out of wedlock, and no one is ashamed of being divorced.  We are seeing the same casual attitude toward adultery.  (Just for the record, I am NOT advocating that it was better when young women killed themselves and their unborn children -- just pointing out that societal views have changed, and it is difficult to not be influenced by them)

Incidentally, are you also opposed to blanket statements like "No man cometh unto the Father except by me"?

 

[Walt]

Ask your local law enforcement agency. There is A very good reason they keep your criminal record.

But does God keep records? You quoted Mark Twain and now give an illustration of how a secular society keeps records, but ignore the possibility of progressive sanctification.

Believe me... I am VERY reluctant to see a person go back into vocational ministry. I share many of the same cautions. Yet, I have seen where it does work out. I don't have a scriptural basis  for preventing the reentry of a person into the pulpit, when...

1) Their reestablished character has shown them to be a "one woman kind of man."
2) A substantial length of time has intervened and perseverance is evident.
3) I see a difference between an adulterer and  one who committed the sin. Is there a continued habit of sexual problems or improprietories?

So, where I am at on this issue is: I firmly believe that God's grace is strong enough to reconcile this. I am not in the place to judge those who go back in. A lingering question (probably among most of us is) "Do these pastors go back into full-time vocational ministry because that is all they know to do?" That certainly gives me pause to wonder.

I see and mostly agree with your post...in principle.
I would be very hesitant to be a part of placing someone who committed adultery while Pastoring back into the position of  Pastor. As opposed to your experience, my personal experience is that adultery re-occurred in every instance.

I also understand both of the posts and like them.

 

[subllibrm]

I find it interesting that the church for generations "solved" these problems with black and white pronouncements of NO! No room for nuance so those who fell outside of the "perfect testimony" basically lied to follow the path into ministry.

The man who baptized my wife had a successful ministry in Mid-Michigan. He was a graduate of Grand Rapids Baptist College and Seminary. His children grew into fine young adults with ministries of their own including one son was a nationally known singer with a strong music ministry in the 1970s. After decades in the pastorate it became public that he had been married and divorced prior to his subsequent remarriage, schooling and ministry.

BAM out you go. For lying about his past? Nope. For having been divorced.

Now I will grant that the powers that be did what they knew to do at the time. And I will say that I feel no great remorse for him (due to the duplicity rather than the previous marriage). The worst part to me is that the church replaced him with a man who shortly after went full on "wack-a -doodle" doctrinally and destroyed the church beyond repair. I am thankful my wife's family moved away before getting caught up in that travesty.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

no value, are you still here?
Are you Marty?

 

[Twisted]

(due to the duplicity rather than the previous marriage).

Did he speak against others who were divorced being in ministry?

Did he lie when asked if he had been married before?

 

[subllibrm]

(due to the duplicity rather than the previous marriage).

Did he speak against others who were divorced being in ministry?

Did he lie when asked if he had been married before?

I don't know.

 

[Teri in NC]

Notice he said he went to bible college near Chicago without naming the school. He isn't the first HAC grad (actually I dont think he graduated) that doesn't want to mention the name of his alma mater.

As a proud HAC grad, I am glad he did not mention the name.

By the way, neither he nor G*y are graduates of HAC.

 

[Teri in NC]

If you think that is an acceptable sentence in the English language maybe you too are an IFBx.

For a school that is supposed to be graduating a type of professional communicator, it always amazes me that HAC students can so often be spotted by their poor use of English.

There may be other sentences like that, but that is the only one I looked at.

Their affirmation of the Trinity is particularly ham-handed, though at least it's not heretical.

What do ewe mean?

 

[Teri in NC]

Is 'media ministry' the same as 'library ministry'????

 

[prophet]

HAC grad?

HAC, yes. Grad, don't know.

When anyone says, "I attended college near Chicago" as the bio does, that's code for I  attended HAC.

Yes!!!

earnestly contend

 

[T-Bone]

Seems like "No Value" has disappeared when asked a direct question about whether he was Marty.