Pastor-slick with the texts

[Still There]

I wasn't able to pull up the texts, but remember - what you put in a text or e-mail can always be brought up and bite you in the end.  People may think if I delete them that's it, but it's not.  Vineyard or whoever may think they're slick, but it will come back to haunt them in the end. 

 

[Walt]

That's why I would have shut the phone off, and then waited to turn it on when Thomas' wife was close by. "My, look at all these texts coming in! Wow, Mrs. Vineyard, they're all from Pastor...I hope everything is okay!" She would have been very interested I'd think. 

I don't see anywhere where he sent more than two unanswered texts (some look like one but they were possibly long enough to be two or three, I'm not counting characters to check.) So there is no evidence, at least here, that he sent a bunch of unanswered texts.

Also, I don't know any college student who considers 11PM late at night, especially not if you get off work at 10.

I'm not trying to imply anything or argue with anyone, only pointing out facts, except for the late night thing, that's an opinion, but I think a well educated one. You could say it's "late" for a pastor to be texting her, but I wouldn't say that she's "texing late at night." In college that's like 2-3AM.

Pastor had no business texting her or anyone as these text show. Whether or not the person responded.  He had no business saying the things he said in the text, period.  Has nothing to do with her responding or not responding.  Especially when we all know not responding goes against everything IFB teaches in terms of obeying authority.  The young lady was doing as she was programed to do by these IFB men who abuse their position with an unScriptural teaching on authority..

Agreed, and he confessed that he did wrong.

 

[Just me]

That's why I would have shut the phone off, and then waited to turn it on when Thomas' wife was close by. "My, look at all these texts coming in! Wow, Mrs. Vineyard, they're all from Pastor...I hope everything is okay!" She would have been very interested I'd think. 

I don't see anywhere where he sent more than two unanswered texts (some look like one but they were possibly long enough to be two or three, I'm not counting characters to check.) So there is no evidence, at least here, that he sent a bunch of unanswered texts.

Also, I don't know any college student who considers 11PM late at night, especially not if you get off work at 10.

I'm not trying to imply anything or argue with anyone, only pointing out facts, except for the late night thing, that's an opinion, but I think a well educated one. You could say it's "late" for a pastor to be texting her, but I wouldn't say that she's "texing late at night." In college that's like 2-3AM.

Pastor had no business texting her or anyone as these text show. Whether or not the person responded.  He had no business saying the things he said in the text, period.  Has nothing to do with her responding or not responding.  Especially when we all know not responding goes against everything IFB teaches in terms of obeying authority.  The young lady was doing as she was programed to do by these IFB men who abuse their position with an unScriptural teaching on authority..

Agreed, and he confessed that he did wrong.

Did he now?

Tom's confession:  "Last November, the Lord brought to light that I was doing wrong. I had crossed the line in my communications with a female student through text messaging. The communications started out in a professional capacity and then crossed the line in becoming too familiar. I complimented her appearance, her attire, and her perfume. There was no sexual content in my messages, nor any intent on my part. There was nothing that would disqualify me from being your pastor. I make no excuses for what I did, and I accepted responsibility for it. I immediately confessed it to my wife, and she was made aware of the content of the messages. I asked her to forgive me, and she forgave me. With my wife present, I apologized to the person that I had offended. She told me that she forgave me."

What did he confess to as doing wrong in his above confession?

 

[TruthBearer]

That's why I would have shut the phone off, and then waited to turn it on when Thomas' wife was close by. "My, look at all these texts coming in! Wow, Mrs. Vineyard, they're all from Pastor...I hope everything is okay!" She would have been very interested I'd think. 

I don't see anywhere where he sent more than two unanswered texts (some look like one but they were possibly long enough to be two or three, I'm not counting characters to check.) So there is no evidence, at least here, that he sent a bunch of unanswered texts.

Also, I don't know any college student who considers 11PM late at night, especially not if you get off work at 10.

I'm not trying to imply anything or argue with anyone, only pointing out facts, except for the late night thing, that's an opinion, but I think a well educated one. You could say it's "late" for a pastor to be texting her, but I wouldn't say that she's "texing late at night." In college that's like 2-3AM.

Pastor had no business texting her or anyone as these text show. Whether or not the person responded.  He had no business saying the things he said in the text, period.  Has nothing to do with her responding or not responding.  Especially when we all know not responding goes against everything IFB teaches in terms of obeying authority.  The young lady was doing as she was programed to do by these IFB men who abuse their position with an unScriptural teaching on authority..

Agreed, and he confessed that he did wrong.

Did he now?

Tom's confession:  "Last November, the Lord brought to light that I was doing wrong. I had crossed the line in my communications with a female student through text messaging. The communications started out in a professional capacity and then crossed the line in becoming too familiar. I complimented her appearance, her attire, and her perfume. There was no sexual content in my messages, nor any intent on my part. There was nothing that would disqualify me from being your pastor. I make no excuses for what I did, and I accepted responsibility for it. I immediately confessed it to my wife, and she was made aware of the content of the messages. I asked her to forgive me, and she forgave me. With my wife present, I apologized to the person that I had offended. She told me that she forgave me."

What did he confess to as doing wrong in his above confession?

The Dean of the College must have been promoted to Lord, "...the Lord brought to light that I was doing wrong..." or was it the girl that he was texting who brought it to light and she is now being referred to as the Lord?

I am confused on the part where he says "I had crossed the line in my communications with a female student through text messaging. The communications started out in a professional capacity and then crossed the line in becoming too familiar." and then goes on to say "There was nothing that would disqualify me from being your pastor."

Is flirting and crossing the line with a female student (his own words) not reason for disqualifying him?

His confession was becasue he was confronted not becasue the Lord brought it to light.

 

[Just me]

Or was it the girls dad who was promoted to "the Lord" after he called WHBC to address Tom's evil behavior?

 

[TruthBearer]

Or was it the girls dad who was promoted to "the Lord" after he called WHBC to address Tom's evil behavior?

With all the lords at WHBC it is confusing which one they teach to follow.

 

[Walt]

Did he now?

Tom's confession:  "Last November, the Lord brought to light that I was doing wrong. I had crossed the line in my communications with a female student through text messaging. The communications started out in a professional capacity and then crossed the line in becoming too familiar. I complimented her appearance, her attire, and her perfume. There was no sexual content in my messages, nor any intent on my part. There was nothing that would disqualify me from being your pastor. I make no excuses for what I did, and I accepted responsibility for it. I immediately confessed it to my wife, and she was made aware of the content of the messages. I asked her to forgive me, and she forgave me. With my wife present, I apologized to the person that I had offended. She told me that she forgave me."

What did he confess to as doing wrong in his above confession?

I consider I crossed the line as being a confession of doing wrong.

Yes, the statement the Lord brought to light... is a bit of a gloss.  It ignores that fact that the young lady went to the dean who confronted the pastor.  But it could be said that the Lord brought it to light.

 

[Just me]

Well there it is then.  He white washed it all as WHBC leadership has been doing for years.

No wonder people are constantly leaving that place and getting in God honoring churches across Okc.

 

[Cicero]

Did he now?

Tom's confession:  "Last November, the Lord brought to light that I was doing wrong. I had crossed the line in my communications with a female student through text messaging. The communications started out in a professional capacity and then crossed the line in becoming too familiar. I complimented her appearance, her attire, and her perfume. There was no sexual content in my messages, nor any intent on my part. There was nothing that would disqualify me from being your pastor. I make no excuses for what I did, and I accepted responsibility for it. I immediately confessed it to my wife, and she was made aware of the content of the messages. I asked her to forgive me, and she forgave me. With my wife present, I apologized to the person that I had offended. She told me that she forgave me."

What did he confess to as doing wrong in his above confession?

I consider I crossed the line as being a confession of doing wrong.

Yes, the statement the Lord brought to light... is a bit of a gloss.  It ignores that fact that the young lady went to the dean who confronted the pastor.  But it could be said that the Lord brought it to light.

"There was nothing that would disqualify me from being your pastor"
Cutting to the chase for Walt.
Walt, I assure you that I mean no ill intent or disrespect in the following statements towards you or anyone else that might feel the same way as you.

The above statement from Tom might be true that "There was nothing to disqualify me from being your pastor" actually written or typed in the text messages itself. I myself see plenty of information with-in the texts to disqualify Tom as pastor. There are plenty of phrases that have the "appearance of evil" such as wanting to be alone with this young lady, "wait for everyone to clear out" type suggestions. Plus, I know exactly how a man grooms a lady to eventually get her to do as he pleases. Tom was on the expressway to that destination but thankfully it was only in his mind.

BUT! Lying from the pulpit (or anywhere at all) is a disqualification for pastor.
Tom stood in the pulpit on that Sunday night and lied to the people of WHBC during his (lack of) confession and they knew it as soon as he said it. At least a number of them did. He said, and don't quote me word for word, "There was never a second lady that I was texting" That was a flat out lie. Myself along with many others know for a fact there was a second young lady he was texting. HE LIED.

Also, as stated in previous post when he said "The Lord brought to light" That was a flat out lie as well. Tom got BUSTED and THAT is the ONLY reason he came forward.

I also know for a fact there was several other young ladies that Tom had spoken inappropriately to and on many occasions. ALL of them, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM quit there job at WHBC specifically due to his inappropriate comments. I have a great deal of respect for each of these ladies ( and I know at least 8 of them ) I'm pretty sure they want this matter as far behind them as possible. By the way, These were good young ladies, innocent in nature that loved working at the church. I'm sure they knew if they said anything at all to bring awareness to this situation it would be handled in the very same manner as this very issue at hand. SWEEP THIS UNDER THE RUG and PLAY THE BLAME GAME.

There is a strong specific pattern of behavior that Tom has portrayed and that is of a womanizer with a lust filled mind.

Walt, I hope you know I'm not trying to put up an arguement with you, I'm only trying to show that the pulpit at WHBC has been stained with a disqualifing sin.

 

[TruthBearer]

WHBC pulpit was stained long before all this happened. I believe it was stained when Tommy Boy asked Paul to come up and pray from the pulpit at a youth conference (Paul was peddling WF chocolate that year, paid on commission so he could lie about how much he actually made).

The pulpit was stained then because Paul was a practicing adulterer according to the Bible and according to the teachings of WHBC for anyone other than a Vineyard and Tommy Boy knew it. This would be no difference than have Jim Roth (former homosexual City Council member of OKC) be asked to pray behind WHBC pulpit.

I am sure there are probably other situations people can think of that stained the pulpit.

Tommy Boy has lied many times from the pulpit in the past that I know of and personally I don't think he was every qualified to be behind the pulpit but that is a discussion for another topic.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

It kinda makes me wonder if these men actually believe in the Judgment Seat of Christ that they preach to us about. Or, maybe that's not the judgment that they'll be standing at...

 

[Excelsior]

I wonder that, too. :/

 

[Walt]

It kinda makes me wonder if these men actually believe in the Judgment Seat of Christ that they preach to us about. Or, maybe that's not the judgment that they'll be standing at...

A very good observation.  It seems that men like Jack Schaap had no fear of God.

A few weeks ago, my wife and I were talking about the recent "MOG" scandals, and she was wondering how they could manage to do such a great sin.

 

[BALAAM]

It kinda makes me wonder if these men actually believe in the Judgment Seat of Christ that they preach to us about. Or, maybe that's not the judgment that they'll be standing at...

A very good observation.  It seems that men like Jack Schaap had no fear of God.

A few weeks ago, my wife and I were talking about the recent "MOG" scandals, and she was wondering how they could manage to do such a great sin.

Walt, a man who was a deacon and memeber of fbch for many years retired from his job and was going to take a part-time position in another church in the area as an assistant pastor. When you go for many years to a church like fbch you do not make a decision like this without getting permission from the mog. When this guy went to see schaap (small letters are on purpose) he said, "Do you think this is fun?  Many times I raise my fist up to heaven and say I don't even know if you are real you mf'er!"

True, but this man quietly left and took the position without a word to anyone about how unbelievably heathen the pastor actually was. No fear of God? We have not even plumbed the depths of js.

 

[prophet]

It kinda makes me wonder if these men actually believe in the Judgment Seat of Christ that they preach to us about. Or, maybe that's not the judgment that they'll be standing at...

A very good observation.  It seems that men like Jack Schaap had no fear of God.

A few weeks ago, my wife and I were talking about the recent "MOG" scandals, and she was wondering how they could manage to do such a great sin.

Walt, a man who was a deacon and memeber of fbch for many years retired from his job and was going to take a part-time position in another church in the area as an assistant pastor. When you go for many years to a church like fbch you do not make a decision like this without getting permission from the mog. When this guy went to see schaap (small letters are on purpose) he said, "Do you think this is fun?  Many times I raise my fist up to heaven and say I don't even know if you are real you mf'er!"

True, but this man quietly left and took the position without a word to anyone about how unbelievably heathen the pastor actually was. No fear of God? We have not even plumbed the depths of js.

Yet idiots will still call me and Binaca Chugger names for insisting that  he isn't saved, and that the Scripture tells us to treat him as such.

When he first told the story, of "the evil day", I realized that he wasn't a believer.  It took me a while to grasp what that meant, and then I waited 2 years for the deacons to act.
No one did, and I finally left.

But he told us publicly, in that sermon, that he didn't know if God was real, or if the Bible was true.
Then he shrugged and said "I guess I slowly walked out of that dark place."

No illuminating moment.
No rebirth
No relief of burden
Just...got used to the doubt being part of his life.

I talked to him once, about these things, and he acted as if he had no idea if God was there or not.
He seemed sad, lost, lonely.
I felt sorry for him, but thought that I would be out of place pressing him, or offering counsel,he was v.p. at the college at the time.

Crazy!

 

[Just me]

This conversation as to the question of these men's salvation has come up several times in the Just me house over the years.  There actually was a constant palpable evil presence around JAV for the last several years before we left that place.  I could tell you long before you saw him that JAV was about to come around the corner of the building or into a room.  It was freaky!!

 

[TruthBearer]

This conversaation as to the question of these men's salvation hs come up several times in the Just me house over the years.  There actually was a constant palpable evil presence around JAV for the last several years before we left that place.  I could tell you long before you saw him that JAV was about to come around the corner of the building or into a room.  It was freaky!!

I know and have read history of a lot of evil men that controlled people with fear.

I have never known, heard of or read of a godly man controlling people with fear.

All the godly men I know pray for people that leave the faith and are broken hearted.

ole Jimbo threatens them with evil coming to their door step.

Only God knows if he is actually saved or not but you can tell a person by his fruits according to the Bible.

What kind of fruit has ole Jimbo had fall from the tree?

 

[Hope]

Well said, TruthBearer.

 

[TruthBearer]

Well said, TruthBearer.

ole Jimbo always said let time go by and we will see where your kids are and where mine are (or something like that).

We see where his kids are now.

 

[Just me]

Well said, TruthBearer.

ole Jimbo always said let time go by and we will see where your kids are and where mine are (or something like that).

We see where his kids are now.

I will give Jimmy Boy credit for one thing: Ever since his son Paul had to leave the mission field years ago for doing the dirty with all those women over there JAV has never used that line.  Now, with Tommy Boy adding to his shame and making a mockery of his words, he probably will never say them again.