Pastor vs. Preacher

[Binaca Chugger]

Most men who are leaders of a church prefer one title or the other: Preacher or Pastor.

It seems to me, judging from the small group that I have been privy to know, that those who prefer the term Preacher, really don't do much counseling or even visiting.  They prefer to simply do their duty during the service and expect people to get the goods when they are served.  On the other hand, those who prefer the title Pastor are much more involved in the actual life of church members.

Is there anything to this?  What has been your experience?

Oh, and the 5 minute appointment after a church service doesn't count.  That's not real counseling.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I consider it a spot on response!  This is exactly what I am referring to.

To me, this sounds like: "I am willing to tell you what to do, but I don't want to invest the time to listen to your personal struggles and help you discover the truth in the Bible that will enlighten your mind and open your heart to faith that you may receive victory and truly walk in newness of life."

A little surprising, since he likes the term Pastor, and has such a welcoming personality when you visit: "BRO-THER!!!"

Someone help me out here.  What does so much of the IFB have against counseling?  Is it ignorance of solutions to people's problems, a belief that there is no such thing as struggle with sin, business that consumes the duty to pastor, pride that their preaching is good enough, or the idea that since some humanists try to help people, the church won't.  I just don't get it.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]It seems to me, judging from the small group that I have been privy to know, that those who prefer the term Preacher, really don't do much counseling or even visiting.  They prefer to simply do their duty during the service and expect people to get the goods when they are served.  On the other hand, those who prefer the title Pastor are much more involved in the actual life of church members.[/quote]

That's actually pretty reflective of the difference in the two roles. I've found that most people don't even differentiate in the roles and/or think they are the same thing.

 

[Sherryh]

I've known my pastor for over 30 years and I've never called him my his first name.......I call him Pastor Blalock
He is a great example of Christ's love to his people......

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I've known my pastor for over 30 years and I've never called him my his first name.......I call him Pastor Blalock
He is a great example of Christ's love to his people......

Wonderful for you and your church!  Interestingly, Pastor.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I actually did LOL.

Meddler - pretty good - way to add comedy to the mix!

 

[myeyesareopen]

And then there's....."Dr"

No announcement has been made, and of course I am not privy to inside information of any sort. But mark my words. The night they 'swear in' the new pastor of FBC, they will confer upon him an honorary doctorate. I can smell it coming...FBC cannot have a pastor who is not a 'doctor'. HAC cannot have a chancellor who is not a 'doctor'. And the associate pastor simply cannot outrank the senior pastor. So amidst the festivities of that day, I am expecting a common brother to be elevated to the rank of 'doctor'.

 

[Boomer]

And then there's....."Dr"

No announcement has been made, and of course I am not privy to inside information of any sort. But mark my words. The night they 'swear in' the new pastor of FBC, they will confer upon him an honorary doctorate. I can smell it coming...FBC cannot have a pastor who is not a 'doctor'. HAC cannot have a chancellor who is not a 'doctor'. And the associate pastor simply cannot outrank the senior pastor. So amidst the festivities of that day, I am expecting a common brother to be elevated to the rank of 'doctor'.

No doubt about it (unless he already has an honorary doctorate from somewhere). Perhaps Bro. Wilkerson will change that aspect of FBCH's culture over time.

 

[nthanh61]

And then there's....."Dr"

No announcement has been made, and of course I am not privy to inside information of any sort. But mark my words. The night they 'swear in' the new pastor of FBC, they will confer upon him an honorary doctorate. I can smell it coming...FBC cannot have a pastor who is not a 'doctor'. HAC cannot have a chancellor who is not a 'doctor'. And the associate pastor simply cannot outrank the senior pastor. So amidst the festivities of that day, I am expecting a common brother to be elevated to the rank of 'doctor'.

And they encourage us to go to HAC which is not accredited while they like these titles attached to names. Something is not right here.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

And then there's....."Dr"

No announcement has been made, and of course I am not privy to inside information of any sort. But mark my words. The night they 'swear in' the new pastor of FBC, they will confer upon him an honorary doctorate. I can smell it coming...FBC cannot have a pastor who is not a 'doctor'. HAC cannot have a chancellor who is not a 'doctor'. And the associate pastor simply cannot outrank the senior pastor. So amidst the festivities of that day, I am expecting a common brother to be elevated to the rank of 'doctor'.

If I was a betting man, I would place money on your assumption.  But I'm not a betting man.  Would you like to wager on it? 

 

[myeyesareopen]

If I was a betting man, I would place money on your assumption.  But I'm not a betting man.  Would you like to wager on it?

My turn to LOL.     

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Getting back to the OP - Is it just me, or do many in the IFB (especially those who call themselves Preacher), seem to have no desire for counseling?

 

[lnf]

Getting back to the OP - Is it just me, or do many in the IFB (especially those who call themselves Preacher), seem to have no desire for counseling?

I really can't speak to what a Pastor/Preacher believes about counseling, but I do have an opinion on faith-based counseling.  Not long after my husband died, our son got himself into some serious legal trouble.  I asked the court to place him in a certain faith-based home for troubled youth.  He was there for almost a year and a half.  During that time, both he and I received counseling from their staff of professional Christian counselors.  We each received an hour of counseling each week.  That's a lot of counseling! (This program changed our lives, BTW.  God is still using what we learned during our time there to continue to grow us, up to and including this very day!)

Anyway, the point of telling you all that is this:  I can't imagine my Pastor being able to devote that level of counseling to my family, let alone to other families in the congregation.  I don't think my family is unique, in that we required an extraordinary level of support that others wouldn't.  Sure, there's likely plenty of folks who just need a friendly ear to hash out a particular issue, but, to me, that is not counseling.  That's "Pastoral Advice". 

Perhaps it's not a bad thing if Pastors don't generally provide counseling services, considering all the other responsibilities in leading a church congregation.  In my opinion, pastoral counseling really is a specialized skill, a ministry within the ministry, if you will.   

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Getting back to the OP - Is it just me, or do many in the IFB (especially those who call themselves Preacher), seem to have no desire for counseling?

I really can't speak to what a Pastor/Preacher believes about counseling, but I do have an opinion on faith-based counseling.  Not long after my husband died, our son got himself into some serious legal trouble.  I asked the court to place him in a certain faith-based home for troubled youth.  He was there for almost a year and a half.  During that time, both he and I received counseling from their staff of professional Christian counselors.  We each received an hour of counseling each week.  That's a lot of counseling! (This program changed our lives, BTW.  God is still using what we learned during our time there to continue to grow us, up to and including this very day!)

Anyway, the point of telling you all that is this:  I can't imagine my Pastor being able to devote that level of counseling to my family, let alone to other families in the congregation.  I don't think my family is unique, in that we required an extraordinary level of support that others wouldn't.  Sure, there's likely plenty of folks who just need a friendly ear to hash out a particular issue, but, to me, that is not counseling.  That's "Pastoral Advice". 

Perhaps it's not a bad thing if Pastors don't generally provide counseling services, considering all the other responsibilities in leading a church congregation.  In my opinion, pastoral counseling really is a specialized skill, a ministry within the ministry, if you will. 

Thank you for sharing. 

Personally, I believe the type of counseling you described is very needed in America.  Our society is so messed up and our thought processes are so confused, it is good for someone to be willing to take the time to listen to another, help them find the root of problems in their life and guide them to Scripture to increase their faith that they may overcome the difficulty and better glorify God.

I have known some pastors who are willing to invest several hours each week to help a single person or couple.  I have had a pastor drop whatever to meet me and help me sort through things.  I once had a pastor who would actually take phone calls from his members to help them through a difficult time or even sort out some emotions to keep them from making bad decisions. 

I have never known a person who calls himself Preacher to do these things.  Interesting, isn't it?

Maybe it is a time constraint, but I know some that do it very well.  Sadly, most of these are not IFB.  If a pastor is a shepherd and the shepherd is to guide people to God, shouldn't this be a big part of what pastor's do? 

It seems many rank and file IFB are only worried about proclaiming their ideology and then abandoning the sheep until they show up for feeding time again. 

Anyway, the point of telling you all that is this:  I can't imagine my Pastor being able to devote that level of counseling to my family, let alone to other families in the congregation.

But the professional counselor does, right?

Perhaps it's not a bad thing if Pastors don't generally provide counseling services, considering all the other responsibilities in leading a church congregation.

Perhaps you are right.  I do think your story is one that proves the need for this ministry.  I wish people could find it at church.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]...I have never known a person who calls himself Preacher to do these things.  Interesting, isn't it?

Maybe it is a time constraint, but I know some that do it very well.  Sadly, most of these are not IFB.  If a pastor is a shepherd and the shepherd is to guide people to God, shouldn't this be a big part of what pastor's do...[/quote]

pastor ≠ preacher / teacher

 

[Binaca Chugger]

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]...I have never known a person who calls himself Preacher to do these things.  Interesting, isn't it?

Maybe it is a time constraint, but I know some that do it very well.  Sadly, most of these are not IFB.  If a pastor is a shepherd and the shepherd is to guide people to God, shouldn't this be a big part of what pastor's do...

pastor ≠ preacher / teacher
[/quote]

So you are saying that they are different gifts and positions?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]...I have never known a person who calls himself Preacher to do these things.  Interesting, isn't it?

Maybe it is a time constraint, but I know some that do it very well.  Sadly, most of these are not IFB.  If a pastor is a shepherd and the shepherd is to guide people to God, shouldn't this be a big part of what pastor's do...

pastor ≠ preacher / teacher

So you are saying that they are different gifts and positions?[/quote]

Yes.

 

[nthanh61]

Getting back to the OP - Is it just me, or do many in the IFB (especially those who call themselves Preacher), seem to have no desire for counseling?

I really can't speak to what a Pastor/Preacher believes about counseling, but I do have an opinion on faith-based counseling.  Not long after my husband died, our son got himself into some serious legal trouble.  I asked the court to place him in a certain faith-based home for troubled youth.  He was there for almost a year and a half.  During that time, both he and I received counseling from their staff of professional Christian counselors.  We each received an hour of counseling each week.  That's a lot of counseling! (This program changed our lives, BTW.  God is still using what we learned during our time there to continue to grow us, up to and including this very day!)

Anyway, the point of telling you all that is this:  I can't imagine my Pastor being able to devote that level of counseling to my family, let alone to other families in the congregation.  I don't think my family is unique, in that we required an extraordinary level of support that others wouldn't.  Sure, there's likely plenty of folks who just need a friendly ear to hash out a particular issue, but, to me, that is not counseling.  That's "Pastoral Advice". 

Perhaps it's not a bad thing if Pastors don't generally provide counseling services, considering all the other responsibilities in leading a church congregation.  In my opinion, pastoral counseling really is a specialized skill, a ministry within the ministry, if you will. 

Thank you for sharing. 

Personally, I believe the type of counseling you described is very needed in America.  Our society is so messed up and our thought processes are so confused, it is good for someone to be willing to take the time to listen to another, help them find the root of problems in their life and guide them to Scripture to increase their faith that they may overcome the difficulty and better glorify God.

I have known some pastors who are willing to invest several hours each week to help a single person or couple.  I have had a pastor drop whatever to meet me and help me sort through things.  I once had a pastor who would actually take phone calls from his members to help them through a difficult time or even sort out some emotions to keep them from making bad decisions. 

I have never known a person who calls himself Preacher to do these things.  Interesting, isn't it?

Maybe it is a time constraint, but I know some that do it very well.  Sadly, most of these are not IFB.  If a pastor is a shepherd and the shepherd is to guide people to God, shouldn't this be a big part of what pastor's do? 

It seems many rank and file IFB are only worried about proclaiming their ideology and then abandoning the sheep until they show up for feeding time again. 

Anyway, the point of telling you all that is this:  I can't imagine my Pastor being able to devote that level of counseling to my family, let alone to other families in the congregation.

But the professional counselor does, right?

Perhaps it's not a bad thing if Pastors don't generally provide counseling services, considering all the other responsibilities in leading a church congregation.

Perhaps you are right.  I do think your story is one that proves the need for this ministry.  I wish people could find it at church.

I agree with you Binaca Chugger. I always thought that a pastor is what he is a pastor, a sheperd, a minister. So isn't that his main job, ministering and sheperding to his sheep. According to Jesus, isn't a true sheperd give his life for his sheep, anything other than that isn't he just an hireling?
So, I would say if a pastor does not make his congregation his priority (counseling, misitering to God and his people), he is not really doing his job. Now a preacher, he may have started out as a pastor, preaches good, build a big church, people heard about him, then he started to travel and preach at other churches (kind of like Jack Hyles). And slowly he spends just as much time travelling and preaching at other churches as much as his own. So at that point, has he slowly turning into a preacher and not a pastor? Has he slowly not doing God's will without realizing it?

 

[Binaca Chugger]

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]...I have never known a person who calls himself Preacher to do these things.  Interesting, isn't it?

Maybe it is a time constraint, but I know some that do it very well.  Sadly, most of these are not IFB.  If a pastor is a shepherd and the shepherd is to guide people to God, shouldn't this be a big part of what pastor's do...

pastor ≠ preacher / teacher

So you are saying that they are different gifts and positions?

Yes.
[/quote]

Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
1Ti 3:2  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

I don't have a problem with differentiating between pastor and teacher.  Or, even calling a teacher a preacher.  Personally, I believe preaching is simply proclaiming the Gospel (Mar 16:15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. ). Thus, we should all be preaching.  Teaching is definitely a gift.

However, when speaking of the leader of the church.  I would like to think that shepherding the flock is more than just public speaking to a mixed group and business management.  The bishop must be given to hospitality and apt to teach.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

So, I would say if a pastor does not make his congregation his priority (counseling, misitering to God and his people), he is not really doing his job. Now a preacher, he may have started out as a pastor, preaches good, build a big church, people heard about him, then he started to travel and preach at other churches (kind of like Jack Hyles). And slowly he spends just as much time travelling and preaching at other churches as much as his own. So at that point, has he slowly turning into a preacher and not a pastor? Has he slowly not doing God's will without realizing it?

I believe so.
I think many in our IFB realm believe that public recognition (traveling to preach at various and sundry places) is the ultimate goal.  Empire building.  It is the third temptation of Satan to Jesus - I will give you an empire - self-vindication, promotion, pride fulfilled.