Pastor's salaries/lifestyle.

[ALAYMAN]

Matt Slick has a radio show and you don’t have to care. You can either take it or leave it.

Maybe I phrase that more terse than I meant to. What I was getting at was, scripture should determine our principles, not typically what gurus say. For instance, I've already positively applauded John Piper and Rick Warren (who I'm generally not a big fan of) for not taking their salaries and using them ostentatiously. But I would add to that, their example should not be used as some some confession of faith or Creed elevated to the level of scriptural mandates.

I never intended to make the implication that we should keep pastors poor. They have a right to make a living just like everyone else. At the same time, they don’t have the right to teach false things.

Yeah, I don't know you from Adam so I wasn't really implying that you believe that, but thanks for clarifying. And in the very first post that I made as the op, I clarified that we're not talking about justifying the prosperity gospel Word- Faith junk. Is that the "false teachings" you're making reference to?

 

[BrianH]

And in the very first post that I made as the op, I clarified that we're not talking about justifying the prosperity gospel Word- Faith junk. Is that the "false teachings" you're making reference to?

Well, certainly the prosperity gospel is a false teaching and should be rejected. I am more specifically referring to the teaching that Christians are obligated to give 10% of their weekly gross income to a local church.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

Your Catholic wannabeism is showing again.

All kidding aside, would you not find it commendable to have a man so dedicated to the ministry and serving his church that he’d put aside all temporal considerations for just his service to God? We think about this only existing within Catholicism, but in the recent past, there were Protestants schisms with such beliefs.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Well, certainly the prosperity gospel is a false teaching and should be rejected. I am more specifically referring to the teaching that Christians are obligated to give 10% of their weekly gross income to a local church.

How are you connecting the doctrine of tithing to the subject of the appropriate pay and lifestyle choices of pastors?

 

[ALAYMAN]

All kidding aside, would you not find it commendable to have a man so dedicated to the ministry and serving his church that he’d put aside all temporal considerations for just his service to God?

Never really thought about it before. I think I see what you're alluding to, and acknowledge that it's potentially a unique "gift" to a select few. But Scripture speaks in an explicitly affirming way of marriage in the pastoral Epistles qualifications, so I'm good with what God delineates as the usual model.

We think about this only existing within Catholicism, but in the recent past, there were Protestants schisms with such beliefs.

Elaborate please.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

Elaborate please.

The Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches still have the rule for bishops who aren’t already married. I was specifically thinking more of the famous American historical example of the Shakers.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I wouldn’t be at all opposed to sitting under a Protestant pastor who has taken a vow of poverty and celibacy. In fact, I would very much.

Why?

 

[Ransom]

I was specifically thinking more of the famous American historical example of the Shakers.

All Shakers were required to be celibate. Adam's original sin was wrongly believed to be sex, and so marriage, sex, and procreation were forbidden. There are only two Shakers left as as a result, for obvious reasons. Not a particularly healthy example of godly living.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

Why?

Because his life would be completely dedicated to God and his local church. No worries about divorcing his wife, or his teenage children going through rebellion, or many other issues that a married minister deals with.

 

[JesusFan]

Because his life would be completely dedicated to God and his local church. No worries about divorcing his wife, or his teenage children going through rebellion, or many other issues that a married minister deals with.

God never gave to the minister pastor the requirement must be celibate, as He staed that was not the norm as he expects most pastors to marry and have children

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

God never gave to the minister pastor the requirement must be celibate

No one has said God requires this. I was asked what I would find appealing about having a pastor that does choose this. It seems most people here would have a problem sitting under the leadership of a pastor who chooses to fully commit his life to God and his church family and forsake also raising a family and being married. Why the hate for the ultimate act of sacrifice to God?

 

[voicecrying]

Because his life would be completely dedicated to God and his local church. No worries about divorcing his wife, or his teenage children going through rebellion, or many other issues that a married minister deals with.

Which is similar to what Paul stated in Corinthians.

 

[Ransom]

Which is similar to what Paul stated in Corinthians.

And yet when he laid out the requirements for ministry in 1 Timothy, Paul also assumed marriage was the normal state of affairs.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

Would any of you be uncomfortable or unwilling to have a pastor who was never married and was only interested in serving God? It’s obviously not a sin for a pastor to be married and have children, but it seems most of you are chafing at the idea of an unmarried man leading the congregation. I don’t understand the issue here.

 

[Ransom]

seems most of you are chafing at the idea of an unmarried man leading the congregation. I don’t understand the issue here.

Things that seem like good ideas have this nasty habit of becoming rules.

Paul said singleness was preferable to marriage for the sake of Christian service, but he also said an elder's character should be that of a one-woman man who leads his family well.

So why should I agree that one state is superior to the other for an elder? The Bible says both ways are fine.

No worries about divorcing his wife, or his teenage children going through rebellion, or many other issues that a married minister deals with.

Also, there's a certain stereotype about Catholic priests that would tend to disagree with you.

 

[BrianH]

How are you connecting the doctrine of tithing to the subject of the appropriate pay and lifestyle choices of pastors?

One reason why I no longer go to church buildings is that I haven't found a pastor who doesn’t justify using the teaching of tithing to support not just himself, but also the significant expenses of maintaining a structure that is merely brick and mortar. I recall once seeing a report indicating that less than 20% of the revenue is actually allocated to missionary work. If that's the case, I can bypass the middleman and contribute directly to charitable organizations of my choosing.

I’m now involved in an online only ministry and my pastor supports himself by driving a truck for a living. He encourages us to follow the actual biblical example of giving to those who are less fortunate.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Because his life would be completely dedicated to God and his local church. No worries about divorcing his wife, or his teenage children going through rebellion, or many other issues that a married minister deals with.

Tell that to the molested victims of the Catholic priests

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

Things that seem like good ideas have this nasty habit of becoming rules.

Paul said singleness was preferable to marriage for the sake of Christian service, but he also said an elder's character should be that of a one-woman man who leads his family well.

So why should I agree that one state is superior to the other for an elder? The Bible says both ways are fine.



Also, there's a certain stereotype about Catholic priests that would tend to disagree with you.

Both options are fine. I don’t posit one being more biblical than the other. However, I wouldn’t consider it a deal breaker if a single man showed up as a candidate for the pastoral position at my church. If I were on the search committee and he reported that he dedicated his life for service to God and was satisfied and fulfilled with his mission, I’d find no reason to interrogate him over the matter or begin a whisper campaign about him being like a Catholic priest you alluded to by stereotype.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

Tell that to the molested victims of the Catholic priests

I’ve got news for you, there are plenty of kids who have been molested by married Baptist preachers as well. A couple of names get tossed around on this very forum from time to time.

 

[abcaines]

One reason why I no longer go to church buildings is that I haven't found a pastor who doesn’t justify using the teaching of tithing to support not just himself, but also the significant expenses of maintaining a structure that is merely brick and mortar. I recall once seeing a report indicating that less than 20% of the revenue is actually allocated to missionary work. If that's the case, I can bypass the middleman and contribute directly to charitable organizations of my choosing.

I’m now involved in an online only ministry and my pastor supports himself by driving a truck for a living. He encourages us to follow the actual biblical example of giving to those who are less fortunate.

You've been going to the wrong churches. All of the Calvary Chapels I have attended over the past 25 years have made it a point of never taking an offering; only placing an offering box at the back of the auditorium. The only teaching about giving has come up when the passage being taught mentions giving. (2 Corinthians 9 for example.)