Patriotism

[Tarheel Baptist]

Actually, we aren't talking about patriotism per se...but again bashing the fundys for having a patriotic theme to some of their services, right?

Because there is NOTHING wrong with a love for one's country, even if the fundy's love it too!

Just want to hold to the theme of the thread....

Let me open the door a  little more then.

Is there any biblical position to be taken regarding the display of the American flag in the church. Specifically the auditorium/sanctuary where worship services are held?

This issue is being debated within my church right now.

Personally, I don't think so.
You have people in your congregation with too much time on their hands, IMO.

We're debating whether to start a third service....displaying the flag has never been mentioned in the past 35+ years. 

Worse, we have someone so convinced of the impropriety of flags (idols) that they mysteriously "disappeared" on purpose. Not looking for ward to that part of the elder's meeting tonight.

It is sad that we sometimes have to deal with dumb issues instead of what Christ called us to do.

Sounds like (non) Recovering IFB could be a member of your congregation. 

Funny thing is that this person would easily be considered a freebird here (big Lecrae fan) and "hates" legalism. I have been praying for an opening to note the disconnect there in a gracious way.

As we've seen on the FFF, so called freebirds often exhibit the same attitude and use the same tactics as the Xers they claim to hate. <shrug>

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Are you a pacifist?

Depends, to what degree?

Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

 

[Recovering IFB]

Actually, we aren't talking about patriotism per se...but again bashing the fundys for having a patriotic theme to some of their services, right?

Because there is NOTHING wrong with a love for one's country, even if the fundy's love it too!

Just want to hold to the theme of the thread....

Let me open the door a  little more then.

Is there any biblical position to be taken regarding the display of the American flag in the church. Specifically the auditorium/sanctuary where worship services are held?

This issue is being debated within my church right now.

Personally, I don't think so.
You have people in your congregation with too much time on their hands, IMO.

We're debating whether to start a third service....displaying the flag has never been mentioned in the past 35+ years. 

Worse, we have someone so convinced of the impropriety of flags (idols) that they mysteriously "disappeared" on purpose. Not looking for ward to that part of the elder's meeting tonight.

It is sad that we sometimes have to deal with dumb issues instead of what Christ called us to do.

Sounds like (non) Recovering IFB could be a member of your congregation. 

Wow TB! I'm glad your sharing your pastoral heart and not condescending to name calling

 

[Recovering IFB]

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Are you a pacifist?

Depends, to what degree?

Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

I believe if a believer wants to serve because that is where he feels God has called him, who am I to judge another mans servant? I wouldn't encourage my boys to go that direction.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Actually, we aren't talking about patriotism per se...but again bashing the fundys for having a patriotic theme to some of their services, right?

Because there is NOTHING wrong with a love for one's country, even if the fundy's love it too!

Just want to hold to the theme of the thread....

Let me open the door a  little more then.

Is there any biblical position to be taken regarding the display of the American flag in the church. Specifically the auditorium/sanctuary where worship services are held?

This issue is being debated within my church right now.

Personally, I don't think so.
You have people in your congregation with too much time on their hands, IMO.

We're debating whether to start a third service....displaying the flag has never been mentioned in the past 35+ years. 

Worse, we have someone so convinced of the impropriety of flags (idols) that they mysteriously "disappeared" on purpose. Not looking for ward to that part of the elder's meeting tonight.

It is sad that we sometimes have to deal with dumb issues instead of what Christ called us to do.

Sounds like (non) Recovering IFB could be a member of your congregation. 

Wow TB! I'm glad your sharing your pastoral heart and not condescending to name calling

No problem!
Glad I could help you feel better about yourself...thank god you're not like other men and all that!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Are you a pacifist?

Depends, to what degree?

Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

I believe if a believer wants to serve because that is where he feels God has called him, who am I to judge another mans servant? I wouldn't encourage my boys to go that direction.

Not an answer to my question(s)?
Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Are you a pacifist?

Depends, to what degree?

Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

I believe if a believer wants to serve because that is where he feels God has called him, who am I to judge another mans servant? I wouldn't encourage my boys to go that direction.

It would be worthwhile to fight to defend our country's founding principles.  But the USA no longer abides by these principles.  Not even close. 

While I respect anyone in the military who has joined and served in good faith, I think it's a total waste of lives, time, and money.  For every one person who dies fighting Islamic terrorism, there are thousands of weapons (and millions of dollars) our government gives to the terrorists who killed that person. 

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is some land of Islam.

 

[Recovering IFB]

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Are you a pacifist?

Depends, to what degree?

Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

I believe if a believer wants to serve because that is where he feels God has called him, who am I to judge another mans servant? I wouldn't encourage my boys to go that direction.

Not an answer to my question(s)?
Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

Are they believers? Then yes. I don't see where Jesus tells us to take a sword to our enemies. Do you?

Btw, you really should get over yourself and your smart-aleck comments, you are really showing who is angry.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Are you a pacifist?

Depends, to what degree?

Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

I believe if a believer wants to serve because that is where he feels God has called him, who am I to judge another mans servant? I wouldn't encourage my boys to go that direction.

Not an answer to my question(s)?
Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

Are they believers? Then yes. I don't see where Jesus tells us to take a sword to our enemies. Do you?

Btw, you really should get over yourself and your smart-aleck comments, you are really showing who is angry.

So, the answers to my questions, asked in anger :, is yes and yes.
Those serving in the military are foolish and into idolatry....at 'some level'.
My wife was pregnant twice, at some level!

 

[Recovering IFB]

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Are you a pacifist?

Depends, to what degree?

Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

I believe if a believer wants to serve because that is where he feels God has called him, who am I to judge another mans servant? I wouldn't encourage my boys to go that direction.

Not an answer to my question(s)?
Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

Are they believers? Then yes. I don't see where Jesus tells us to take a sword to our enemies. Do you?

Btw, you really should get over yourself and your smart-aleck comments, you are really showing who is angry.

So, the answers to my questions, asked in anger :, is yes and yes.
Those serving in the military are foolish and into idolatry....at 'some level'.
My wife was pregnant twice, at some level!

So to answer my question, please, can you show me as ambassadors are we to take the sword to our enemies?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Are you a pacifist?

Depends, to what degree?

Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

I believe if a believer wants to serve because that is where he feels God has called him, who am I to judge another mans servant? I wouldn't encourage my boys to go that direction.

Not an answer to my question(s)?
Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

Are they believers? Then yes. I don't see where Jesus tells us to take a sword to our enemies. Do you?

Btw, you really should get over yourself and your smart-aleck comments, you are really showing who is angry.

So, the answers to my questions, asked in anger :, is yes and yes.
Those serving in the military are foolish and into idolatry....at 'some level'.
My wife was pregnant twice, at some level!

So to answer my question, please, can you show me as ambassadors are we to take the sword to our enemies?

Ever read Romans 13?
It offers insight as to a Christians responsibility toward his civil government.
I guess it encourages idiocy and idolatry....

 

[Recovering IFB]

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Are you a pacifist?

Depends, to what degree?

Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

I believe if a believer wants to serve because that is where he feels God has called him, who am I to judge another mans servant? I wouldn't encourage my boys to go that direction.

Not an answer to my question(s)?
Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

Are they believers? Then yes. I don't see where Jesus tells us to take a sword to our enemies. Do you?

Btw, you really should get over yourself and your smart-aleck comments, you are really showing who is angry.

So, the answers to my questions, asked in anger :, is yes and yes.
Those serving in the military are foolish and into idolatry....at 'some level'.
My wife was pregnant twice, at some level!

So to answer my question, please, can you show me as ambassadors are we to take the sword to our enemies?

Ever read Romans 13?
It offers insight as to a Christians responsibility toward his civil government.
I guess it encourages idiocy and idolatry....

What does Romans 13 have to do with Military service?

 

[Recovering IFB]

So, please, answer my question. Where does Scripture command us, as ambassadors, to take the sword for our country?

 

[Bobby Ross]

So, please, answer my question. Where does Scripture command us, as ambassadors, to take the sword for our country?

As ambassadors for Christ we are not commanded to take the sword, but as CITIZENS we are to be in subjection to the powers that are ordained of God, ie. civil government. 
Also, in our Republic we are given the freedom to conscientiously object/refrain from military service.  This is yet another freedom granted by God at the hands of those who hazarded their lives in service to this nation's freedom.

 

[Liberty1]

Actually, we aren't talking about patriotism per se...but again bashing the fundys for having a patriotic theme to some of their services, right?

Because there is NOTHING wrong with a love for one's country, even if the fundy's love it too!

Just want to hold to the theme of the thread....

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Then go to the pagan nations where the Gospel is non existent and spread the Word - since it doesn't matter to you anyway.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Liberty1]Then go to the pagan nations where the Gospel is non existent and spread the Word...[/quote]

Which large chunks of 'murica were you referring to?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Are you a pacifist?

Depends, to what degree?

Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

I believe if a believer wants to serve because that is where he feels God has called him, who am I to judge another mans servant? I wouldn't encourage my boys to go that direction.

Not an answer to my question(s)?
Do you believe those who volunteer, fight and sometimes die in the military are foolish at some level?
Serving idols at some level?

Are they believers? Then yes. I don't see where Jesus tells us to take a sword to our enemies. Do you?

Btw, you really should get over yourself and your smart-aleck comments, you are really showing who is angry.

So, the answers to my questions, asked in anger :, is yes and yes.
Those serving in the military are foolish and into idolatry....at 'some level'.
My wife was pregnant twice, at some level!

So to answer my question, please, can you show me as ambassadors are we to take the sword to our enemies?

Ever read Romans 13?
It offers insight as to a Christians responsibility toward his civil government.
I guess it encourages idiocy and idolatry....

What does Romans 13 have to do with Military service?

Romans 13 has everything to do with our relationship to civil authorities, the gubmit!

Government is ordained by God...'no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God'.

We should obey our authorities (civil) in this case...'whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment'.

Government is authorized to use necessary force...'if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer'.

Government is people.
There are no 'little governments' bearing the sword, but people representing the authority of government. police officers, court officials and the military all bear the sword for government.

Now, in our personal relationships, you have a point...but we are NOT forbidden from military service or law enforcement by the teaching of Scripture, which you surely already know!

 

[Darkwing Duck]

What part of "I like living here" did you not understand?

Actually, we aren't talking about patriotism per se...but again bashing the fundys for having a patriotic theme to some of their services, right?

Because there is NOTHING wrong with a love for one's country, even if the fundy's love it too!

Just want to hold to the theme of the thread....

I like living here, but that's about it. I wouldn't give my life for it. If that's what you would do, fine. But I think as believers, are only allegiance is to Christ, alone. Everything else is idolatry.

Then go to the pagan nations where the Gospel is non existent and spread the Word - since it doesn't matter to you anyway.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Recovering IFB:
What does Romans 13 have to do with Military service?


Tarheel Baptist:
Romans 13 has everything to do with our relationship to civil authorities, the gubmit!

Government is ordained by God...'no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God'.

We should obey our authorities (civil) in this case...'whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment'.

Government is authorized to use necessary force...'if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer'.

Government is people.
There are no 'little governments' bearing the sword, but people representing the authority of government. police officers, court officials and the military all bear the sword for government.

Now, in our personal relationships, you have a point...but we are NOT forbidden from military service or law enforcement by the teaching of Scripture, which you surely already know!

Those who serve in the military or law enforcement are not foolish and certainly aren't Idolaters!
You aren't that er...ah...uninformed!

 

[Recovering IFB]

Then go to the pagan nations where the Gospel is non existent and spread the Word - since it doesn't matter to you anyway.

Why, I have little pagans in my own home
Besides you bring up a point: you must believe, by your statement, that America is the "Godliness" nation in the world. The standard bearer for all that is righteousness.
Do you?