Pete Rose - Vote Him In!!!

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I hope the Rock N Roll HOF never takes off-stage behavior into consideration. We’ll be able to count the members on one hand! LOL
The conditions for consideration to the baseball Hall of Fame specifically invoke the integrity clause (“voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.”), whereas for the rock ‘n’ roll Hall of Fame (unwritten) rules for induction require lurid details of bad behavior, lol
 
Headfirst into first base and home base, but feet first into second and third. Believe it or not, that is what the data shows
I suppose sliding into first is one good way to rack up unnecessary injuries!
 
I get it, but my point is the HOF is meant to be a showcase of the players who performed the best on the field…not off the field. Tiger Woods has certainly not lived an exemplary life off the course, but no one argues he shouldn’t be in the Golf HOF. Same with OJ Simpson for football.
Simpson's criminal career began after he retired from pro football. Woods' DUI arrest and marital troubles were scandalous, but have nothing to do with golf.

Rose bet on games that he managed--allegedly voting against his own team sometimes--and which he was in a position to influence. His actions could have discredited the game.
 
Simpson's criminal career began after he retired from pro football. Woods' DUI arrest and marital troubles were scandalous, but have nothing to do with golf.

Rose bet on games that he managed--allegedly voting against his own team sometimes--and which he was in a position to influence. His actions could have discredited the game.
A person can be voted in for success as a player, manager, executive or even an umpire. Obviously Rose would go in solely for his playing history.
 
OK, I’m going to admit that I am very old-school when it comes to certain things, especially sports in general and baseball in particular, so this topic is very germane to the story I’m about to tell.

When I coached baseball through ALAYBOY’s playing years I had one team that had a brother and sister who wanted to play together. I had no problem with her being on the team, but she had to abide by the same rules as the rest of my players. In youth sports the formative years are very much all about fundamentals and development, much more than competitive highly technical stuff. At the very bottom of the ladder on the basics is how to slide into bases. In all of my time in coaching I’ve never seen a player who refused to learn to slide, until her. It was so frustrating. No matter what I did, and I tried numerous methods, from psychological to physical, she followed the instructions during practice, but when it came game time, she locked up and refused to slide. She would regularly be in situations where if only she slid into the base, feet first, she would have been safe. But because she had to slow her momentum down in order to stay on the base and not overrun it, that process caused her to slow down enough to be put out. From a competitive standpoint, it drove me absolutely crazy, but from a confidence perspective for her I knew that it was a bridge that she had to cross if she wanted to continue in sports at a more competitive level in later years. Towards the end of the season, out of exasperation told her that if she did not slide that I would not be able to consider her for the postseason tournaments but even that was not enough to get her to slide. By happenstance, I ran into her mom at the grocery store the other day, and asked how her kids were doing, as I knew that the brother of the non-sliding girl would be playing baseball on the high school team this year. The mom immediately launched into a story related to the daughter, and let me know that she was still competing in sports so I just assume that she eventually learned the necessity of that fundamental skill of sliding into bases.
i was badly effected and still recovering from the surgeries i had as a preteen when all the other kids were developing the skills and coordination to play competetition sports... .. so i never got involved in things like softball or volleyball as a teenager... or even the traditional and individual sports common to hawaii...( like surfing - freediving - archery etc)... until i was almost grown... in fact around the same time i was joining the old fff under the name of chupacabra i was also just getting started in those solo endeavors.... but not without some caution to make certain i didn;t re-destroy what surgery had repaired years before....

i don;t know the personal history of the girl you mentioned but there could be any number of reasons she was hesitant about sliding into base.... even if there was no medical reason for it... and especially if she grew up in a part of the country where girls were shamed into standing back and watching sports like that rather than being a participant.... ...it can take longer sometimes to overcome a psychological or cultural reason for being unable to do something than it can to overcome a medical or physical one.... i grew up in a family of scuba and hard hat divers but can;t scuba dive... and the reason is entirely psychological...but it has nothing to do with being female.... i have tried for years every time i got the chance but could not overcome the panic i got overwhelmed with every time i tried to breathe through a regulator... ..

have you ever watched a womens division 1 college softball game?..... teams like UCLA.. oklahoma ... LSU.. clemson.. florida state... ASU...... it;s called softball but there is nothing soft about it... ...those girls are not afraid of anything.. ..and contrary to the common rumors they don;t all look like rosie odonell or as if they could go bear hunting with a stick.... ..they are not afraid to slide in head first - feet first - or any way they can... ...watching it always makes me wish i could have played it when i was younger... but then the sport i know i would have gone into had i been able at that age is womens rugby 7s....
 
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No wonder it took them 40 years to get Rush in there. I think Alex Lifeson got into a fight once. Obviously ineligible.
They promoted pot enough to have all the bona fides.
 
i was badly effected and still recovering from the surgeries i had as a preteen when all the other kids were developing the skills and coordination to play competetition sports... .. so i never got involved in things like softball or volleyball as a teenager... or even the traditional and individual sports common to hawaii...( like surfing - freediving - archery etc)... until i was almost grown... in fact around the same time i was joining the old fff under the name of chupacabra i was also just getting started in those solo endeavors.... but not without some caution to make certain i didn;t re-destroy what surgery had repaired years before....

i don;t know the personal history of the girl you mentioned but there could be any number of reasons she was hesitant about sliding into base.... even if there was no medical reason for it... and especially if she grew up in a part of the country where girls were shamed into standing back and watching sports like that rather than being a participant.... ...it can take longer sometimes to overcome a psychological or cultural reason for being unable to do something than it can to overcome a medical or physical one.... i grew up in a family of scuba and hard hat divers but can;t scuba dive... and the reason is entirely psychological...but it has nothing to do with being female.... i have tried for years every time i got the chance but could not overcome the panic i got overwhelmed with every time i tried to breathe through a regulator... ..

have you ever watched a womens division 1 college softball game?..... teams like UCLA.. oklahoma ... LSU.. clemson.. florida state... ASU...... it;s called softball but there is nothing soft about it... ...those girls are not afraid of anything.. ..and contrary to the common rumors they don;t all look like rosie odonell or as if they could go bear hunting with a stick.... ..they are not afraid to slide in head first - feet first - or any way they can... ...watching it always makes me wish i could have played it when i was younger... but then the sport i know i would have gone into had i been able at that age is womens rugby 7s....
The proximity of the fielders to the ball flying off the bat in softball sure means it ain’t for the faint of heart. One of my brothers coached very competitive girls softball travel team and though there were different challenges coaching girls. He said flat out that the girls had a higher pain tolerance than many other boys that he coached in other things. And there were plenty of boys that I coached that had a hard time figuring out how to slide, including ALAYBOY. Sliding into a baseball bag is an easy way to get fingers, ankles, and knees injured badly if not done with proper coordination.
 
I suppose sliding into first is one good way to rack up unnecessary injuries!
I came up in the baseball school of thought that said that sliding into first base was not competitively advantageous (didn’t really get you to the bag faster), and, it introduced a lot more risk of injury to the runner and fielder. Like many arguments in life, there are many opposing opinions, but more variables need to be analyzed to answer the question about sliding into first being in anyway advantageous. In this day and age of analytics we can be a bit more informed , here you go….


Those against sliding into first argue, reasonably, that when your feet stop pumping, you lose propulsion and then incur friction -- i.e., slow down -- upon the rest of your body scraping against the ground. Those in favor of the practice don't disagree with that, but they argue that the ability to get horizontal and reach out with your arms ahead of your center of mass make up for that fact. The correct answer is probably in between, in that diving or sliding may be as fast if you do it perfectly -- except it's rarely done perfectly. Link
 
They promoted pot enough to have all the bona fides.
Oh, I'm sure they all smoked their fair share of weed back in the 70s (Geddy Lee once remarked that they wrote Caress of Steel while high), but they didn't allow the habit to get out of control or affect their ability to do their jobs. Compared to their contemporaries, they were clean-living family men.
 
In this day and age of analytics we can be a bit more informed , here you go….
There would be a small speed advantage at the last moment from going horizontal. But as far as I know, the main purpose of sliding into any other base is to get past the baseman before he can tag you. Since the batter is allowed to run through first, and the first baseman doesn't need to physically touch the batter (only beat him to the base), the advantage seems negligible. I suppose on those uncommon occasions that a runner needs to go back, it might be useful.
 
There would be a small speed advantage at the last moment from going horizontal. But as far as I know, the main purpose of sliding into any other base is to get past the baseman before he can tag you. Since the batter is allowed to run through first, and the first baseman doesn't need to physically touch the batter (only beat him to the base), the advantage seems negligible. I suppose on those uncommon occasions that a runner needs to go back, it might be useful.
in softball they have actually started putting an expanded or extra bag at first base - just
to the right of the regular bag... it;s supposed to reduce first base collisions and injuries
by allowing the runner to go for that if the first baseman is occupying the main bag or
running towards it.... ...i haven;t heard any players say whether they thought it was
working or not.....

firstbaseexpansion.jpeg


even the fielders slide into bases head first sometimes in an effort to get a forced out on a runner...

can_you_slide_first_base.jpeg
 
in softball they have actually started putting an expanded or extra bag at first base - just
to the right of the regular bag... it;s supposed to reduce first base collisions and injuries
by allowing the runner to go for that if the first baseman is occupying the main bag or
running towards it.... ...i haven;t heard any players say whether they thought it was
working or not.....

View attachment 3831


even the fielders slide into bases head first sometimes in an effort to get a forced out on a runner...

View attachment 3832
That’s a great idea. My issue was always the leg tuck, but I was fast enough that coaches would let me run it out in baseball. Now, as an adult in softball leagues, no one is sliding except accidentally from bad knees and hips! 😆
 
…. But as far as I know, the main purpose of sliding into any other base is to get past the baseman before he can tag you.

Not exactly. The purpose for sliding into second or third base is so that you don’t travel past the bag while the defender is near you with the ball in his glove because if you don’t stop on the bag (best accomplished by sliding) he can tag you easily after you pass the bag.

Since the batter is allowed to run through first, and the first baseman doesn't need to physically touch the batter (only beat him to the base), the advantage seems negligible. I suppose on those uncommon occasions that a runner needs to go back, it might be useful.

By “go back” do you mean the runner returns to first base by sliding back in after he has over-ran it?
 
even the fielders slide into bases head first sometimes in an effort to get a forced out on a runner...

View attachment 3832

The fielder sliding back in to first base head first is done because they instinctively know that if they stayed on their feet and ran to the bag to make the force-out that they would not be able to instantly stop their momentum at the bag which would very likely result in a collision with the runner simultaneously as the runner crosses the bag.
 
The fielder sliding back in to first base head first is done because they instinctively know that if they stayed on their feet and ran to the bag to make the force-out that they would not be able to instantly stop their momentum at the bag
That’s almost the only time I ever did a slide, otherwise I was statistically better off not sliding. That’s me though, and I sucked at sliding. I wasn’t much of a hitter either. I was the guy who usually got put in right field. 🫤
 
That’s almost the only time I ever did a slide, otherwise I was statistically better off not sliding. That’s me though, and I sucked at sliding. I wasn’t much of a hitter either. I was the guy who usually got put in right field. 🫤
i would have probably been a disaster at softball/baseball even if i had been fit enough to play.... i was very prone to accidents... ..i didn;t even have to be in a game or even attending one to get hurt by it.... i got hit in the head once with a baseball when i was a teenager, and none of us in the group even saw it coming... it was batted by someone playing over 100 yards away on the other side of some trees... i can only imagine what would have happened if i had ever tried to slide into a base... ..but then i guess you would have to hit the ball before you get the opportunity to do that anyway...:unsure: ..so i probably would have been ok... as long as there was a strong net in front of the dugout....🤕
 
i would have probably been a disaster at softball/baseball even if i had been fit enough to play.... i was very prone to accidents... ..i didn;t even have to be in a game or even attending one to get hurt by it.... i got hit in the head once with a baseball when i was a teenager, and none of us in the group even saw it coming... it was batted by someone playing over 100 yards away on the other side of some trees... i can only imagine what would have happened if i had ever tried to slide into a base... ..but then i guess you would have to hit the ball before you get the opportunity to do that anyway...:unsure: ..so i probably would have been ok... as long as there was a strong net in front of the dugout....🤕
I was never accident prone, but my athleticism just never quite carried over to baseball. Compared to some of the other guys, I did get a late start though. Some of those guys started playing at 5 years old. I was very good at basketball and tennis, and halfway good at baseball and golf. I lacked the height in basketball to go anywhere with it, even at the point guard position. Tennis was probably my best bet, but we lacked the cash for me to truly get to the next level with that sport.
 
That’s almost the only time I ever did a slide, otherwise I was statistically better off not sliding. That’s me though, and I sucked at sliding. I wasn’t much of a hitter either. I was the guy who usually got put in right field. 🫤
haha, the “put ‘em in right field” thing became less of an option for coaches as a place to hide players the further up the chain of game strategy and development that you went. That usually only worked for a coach to hide the unskilled player through junior high.
 
I was never accident prone, but my athleticism just never quite carried over to baseball. Compared to some of the other guys, I did get a late start though. Some of those guys started playing at 5 years old. I was very good at basketball and tennis, and halfway good at baseball and golf. I lacked the height in basketball to go anywhere with it, even at the point guard position. Tennis was probably my best bet, but we lacked the cash for me to truly get to the next level with that sport.
I don’t know if you are aware of the state of youth sports now, or if it is like this in your area, but what we typically know in “rec league” lawsports, where every kid in the community is invited to come and play for the team(s) is a slightly dying breed these days, caused by specialized travel teams where the best players in a community are poached to field a team that is akin to the post-season rec league “all stars”. In turn, one of the side effects is that kids are forced to choose a sport to specialize in at a younger and younger age. There are several toxic results from this phenomenon. Parents who think that their kid is going to get a D1 college scholarship because they start at three years old taking Junior and Suzy to a special sports trainer, and other similar idiocy. Read more here…

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