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BandGuy

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https://ncfic.org/blog/posts/worship-of-god-qa-what-about-holy-hip-hop
 
Excellent post....it was great to hear how each person explained what music really is...
 
"There's more solid theology in one Reformed hip-hop track than ____________"

would seem to apply equally in this case.
 
aleshanee said:
in my opinion.... most music today ... even ccm... maybe especially ccm.... has very little to do with worshiping or glorifying God.... and in fact... it doesn;t even have much to do with music..... it;s all about glorifying the musician or whichever performer is jumping around on the stage with their hands in the air and the microphone stuck in their face.....

any time you have to see the performer in action ... or be entertained by their antics, movements and facial expressions in order to get the most out of the music.....  then the music has already fallen short of what would glorify God and even what would stand as an example of good music....

the finest music in the world is best enjoyed without all that and without even seeing the musician at all...... in fact seeing the musician in action or watching them contorting on a stage actually takes away from the experience of really good music.... and the best musicians and composers know this......  ...... the rest are like artists who paint images of themselves in all their work.... or photographers who are always shooting self portraits..... it;s all about them.... and very little else.......
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excellent post!
 
But you have to admit that Eminem partnering with Rihanna was an act of marketing genius.

Anishinaabe

 
At what point does a cultural expression of praise result in becoming "bad"?

IMO, when it ceases to be from the heart.

Would we consider it wrong of a Native American tribe to dance around a campfire in celebratory expression to God after being reached by a missionary?

Does God prefer classic piano over polka? Can both be used as glorifying to Him and can both be misused to defame Him?
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Does God prefer classic piano over polka?
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Yes.  I can definitely say yes.  Especially if there's an accordion.  ;)
 
aleshanee said:
in my opinion.... most music today ... even ccm... maybe especially ccm.... has very little to do with worshiping or glorifying God.... and in fact... it doesn;t even have much to do with music..... it;s all about glorifying the musician or whichever performer is jumping around on the stage with their hands in the air and the microphone stuck in their face.....
Click to expand...

You are entitled to your opinion. You do realize that ANY musician is capable of glorifying themselves when they perform.

My daughter bought a tobyMac CD. We listened to it for months before I even saw him in concert. I had no clue he was until he was introduced. I must say, the music he writes has very profound truths in it.

This is where the anti-CCM crowd has lost their senses. THEIR paradigm continually shifts. They claim "be not conformed," YET, their arguments keep contorting!

It used to be that Steve Green was criticized because he did not have good content.
Now, the anti-CCM crowd has acknowledged that there really is good content.

In the northern churches, any twang or voice modulation is treated with contempt.
Down south, twangs and slides are common.

The IFB churches are dead-set against the SouthernBaptist Churches.
Now, an IFB is promoting this antiCCM as a prof in a Southern Baptist seminary

With the anti-CCM crowd, musical preference has replaced biblical support.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
At what point does a cultural expression of praise result in becoming "bad"?

IMO, when it ceases to be from the heart.

Would we consider it wrong of a Native American tribe to dance around a campfire in celebratory expression to God after being reached by a missionary?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that is often the reaction, by White American Christians.  They dont speak the Native Tongue, and so are afraid of the Worship. 

Anishinaabe

 
i believe it would depend on the dance....  different dances have different purposes and were choreographed for different reasons...... not all of them are suitable as expressions of worship to God and in fact... most were created to honor pagan deity or celebrate other things that shouldn;t be linked to public worship...

Actually, I would agree with you as there is some dance that is sensual in nature which would be inappropriate in a worship setting. However, even the liturgical methods of Christian expression of worship are rooted in paganism also, whether that be a church choir, organ, robes, stained glass, offerings for clergy, etc. So it is either all wrong or none of it is wrong in and of itself.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
i believe it would depend on the dance....  different dances have different purposes and were choreographed for different reasons...... not all of them are suitable as expressions of worship to God and in fact... most were created to honor pagan deity or celebrate other things that shouldn;t be linked to public worship...

Actually, I would agree with you as there is some dance that is sensual in nature which would be inappropriate in a worship setting. However, even the liturgical methods of Christian expression of worship are rooted in paganism also, whether that be a church choir, organ, robes, stained glass, offerings for clergy, etc. So it is either all wrong or none of it is wrong in and of itself.
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It is all wrong.

Anishinaabe

 
as i made reference in my answer to smellin coffee... if God would not allow king david to build the temple because david was a man of war.... can you really believe He would be pleased to see music such as rap brought into the church?... which had it;s origins as an expression of anger and defiance?

Yet God allowed Levi to perform the butchering in the temple?

Genesis 49:

Simeon and Levi are brethren; Weapons of violence are their swords. O my soul, come not thou into their council; Unto their assembly, my glory, be not thou united; For in their anger they slew a man, And in their self-will they hocked an ox. Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; And their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, And scatter them in Israel.
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What redeemed Levi but not David?

More to the point, if Levi was redeemed enough to be able to perform the sacrificial rituals, why couldn't a genre form of music?
 
prophet said:
Smellin Coffee said:
i believe it would depend on the dance....  different dances have different purposes and were choreographed for different reasons...... not all of them are suitable as expressions of worship to God and in fact... most were created to honor pagan deity or celebrate other things that shouldn;t be linked to public worship...

Actually, I would agree with you as there is some dance that is sensual in nature which would be inappropriate in a worship setting. However, even the liturgical methods of Christian expression of worship are rooted in paganism also, whether that be a church choir, organ, robes, stained glass, offerings for clergy, etc. So it is either all wrong or none of it is wrong in and of itself.
Click to expand...
It is all wrong.

Anishinaabe
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Thank you. :)
 
aleshanee said:
...rock music was not created for worship.....
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That is right... I would not support bringing rock music into a church.

I would add... not all rock music is bad. But it is not designed for worship. It is designed to entertain.
Likewise, there is some CCM music that is designed for reflective entertainment.
Why not support the idea that one can be entertained with an awesome message at the same time?
 
I listen to Gregorian Chant.  It's the only untainted form of music.  And I only listen to it live.  None of that evil vinyl platter or electronic gizmo music for me. 

 
FSSL said:
aleshanee said:
...rock music was not created for worship.....
Click to expand...

That is right... I would not support bringing rock music into a church.

I would add... not all rock music is bad. But it is not designed for worship. It is designed to entertain.
Likewise, there is some CCM music that is designed for reflective entertainment.
Why not support the idea that one can be entertained with an awesome message at the same time?
Click to expand...

The Lutherans in Finland have Metal Mass. I'd probably like that... at least once. But they fit the rock into their liturgical style rather than the other way 'round.

I'm still waiting for a good metal version of "A Mighty Fortess is Our God". Rammstein would be the perfect band for that... if they could be convinced to do it.
 
I should have added that women should not be allowed to sing.  If you want female-sounding voices, then you need to castrate boys so their voices won't change.  Then you can have adult "female" voices sung by men.  It's the only righteous way to get that sound. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
I should have added that women should not be allowed to sing.  If you want female-sounding voices, then you need to castrate boys so their voices won't change.  Then you can have adult "female" voices sung by men.  It's the only righteous way to get that sound. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato
Click to expand...

Hmm. I don't hate men enough to sign on to that idea.  :P
 
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