rap

Recovering IFB said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
As I've said here before, most/many in this contemporary generation would whitewash the Sistine Chapel's ceiling and replace it with gang graffiti!
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So, are you saying this because rap most often is art from the AA communities? Would you say this if the artist was playing a banjo and singing the words in a southern twang rather than rapping? Would that then be "wholesome"?
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What?
 
admin said:
We can disagree.

When you claim that Christian rap is somehow injurious, then give us specifics. You use an article talking about something entirely different. You make claims then cannot back them up with examples.

This is traditionalism. Like KJVOism, it takes a preference and elevates it to a false demand on other believers. It fails to understand how a STYLE of music, in a segment of our culture, is actually being used to promote the teachings of Scripture.

This issue is unnecessarily dividing the brethren. I could easily worship in a church that uses a KJV or NIV. I could easily worship in a church with hymns or rap. Why does there need to be a reaction over a preference?

I am thankful these Christian rap artists are able to work within their own culture to spread biblical truth.
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I agree with every word you typed here.
 
I understand that you do not like the style of rap. No problem. I take issue with you using generalities, accusing those like tobyMac with promoting a worldly culture.  You continue to give your opinion, but no substance. In fact, you took an article against a particular brand of rap -- gangsta rap.

Where is the mayhem, denigration of women or any such perversions in tobyMac's music?

Please, give us ONE... that is all you need, ONE instance in tobyMac's music that promotes anything CLOSE to this.

...explained to you what the rap culture was born of.....  and the rap music style was specifically designed to perpetuate those things... even the inventors of it admit that....
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Not all forms of rap were pernicious. Rap has been used for decades, among many black communities, as an effective way to communicate truth. It came from Africans who used the rap-style for advancing their own oral histories.

You misapplied the article and try to broad brush every form of rap. The article specifically addresses gangsta rap that has been on the rise for the last decade, NOT all of rap.

Rap is just a STYLE of music that can be used for good or bad purposes.

Only of ....  a few months ago a friend of yours here began attacking the church and listing everything he didn;t like about the way church is conducted in the modern age.. and tried to link everything... even the manner of dress and design of the buildings... to paganism......  i don;t remember you saying much in reply to him or making much of an effort to contradict him...
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Well... I did. But this just distracts from the point on this thread.

I will not convince you. I am happy to leave it at that.

However, you are making some false accusations and this needs to be cleared up. So, again, I ask... "Where is the mayhem, denigration of women or any such perversions in tobyMac's music? Please, give us ONE... that is all you need, ONE instance in tobyMac's music that promotes anything CLOSE to this."
 
Recovering IFB said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
As I've said here before, most/many in this contemporary generation would whitewash the Sistine Chapel's ceiling and replace it with gang graffiti!
Click to expand...

So, are you saying this because rap most often is art from the AA communities? Would you say this if the artist was playing a banjo and singing the words in a southern twang rather than rapping? Would that then be "wholesome"?
Click to expand...

Mah medium is rap so ahm not a normal singer
ah tell y'all why a lemon pie is just like mah finger
and ah'll do it rappin style not all fancy like a sonnet
the pie is like my finger 'cuz ... muh rang's on it

word up, y'all
 
aleshanee said:
admin said:
We can disagree.

When you claim that Christian rap is somehow injurious, then give us specifics. You use an article talking about something entirely different. You make claims then cannot back them up with examples.

This is traditionalism. Like KJVOism, it takes a preference and elevates it to a false demand on other believers. It fails to understand how a STYLE of music, in a segment of our culture, is actually being used to promote the teachings of Scripture.

This issue is unnecessarily dividing the brethren. I could easily worship in a church that uses a KJV or NIV. I could easily worship in a church with hymns or rap. Why does there need to be a reaction over a preference?

I am thankful these Christian rap artists are able to work within their own culture to spread biblical truth.
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i gave you specifics..... and i gave you examples..... i told you what kind of atmospheres certain types of ccm music reminds me of..... rap included.... and that includes artists like toby mac.... it has that effect on a lot of us who grew up in those cultures.... and it;s not an atmosphere conducive to worship....and for some of us it even brings up memories and mental images of times when we were immersed in those cultures ...... it changes the whole atmosphere of the church service into one of a night club or rap jam session...... and that is injurious.... if you can;t accept or understand those specifics and examples.. or disagree....  then simply say so... but don;t make the false accusation that i didn;t or couldn;t give such examples to you..... 
.
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Is there a misunderstanding here, perhaps?  Aleshanee, do you believe that rap music is inherently evil for all people or is it just a stumbling block for you and others because of the memories it brings up?
 
aleshanee said:
FSSL said:
I understand that you do not like the style of rap. No problem. I take issue with you using generalities, accusing those like tobyMac with promoting a worldly culture.  You continue to give your opinion, but no substance. In fact, you took an article against a particular brand of rap -- gangsta rap.

Where is the mayhem, denigration of women or any such perversions in tobyMac's music?

Please, give us ONE... that is all you need, ONE instance in tobyMac's music that promotes anything CLOSE to this.

...explained to you what the rap culture was born of.....  and the rap music style was specifically designed to perpetuate those things... even the inventors of it admit that....
Click to expand...

Not all forms of rap were pernicious. Rap has been used for decades, among many black communities, as an effective way to communicate truth. It came from Africans who used the rap-style for advancing their own oral histories.

You misapplied the article and try to broad brush every form of rap. The article specifically addresses gangsta rap that has been on the rise for the last decade, NOT all of rap.

Rap is just a STYLE of music that can be used for good or bad purposes.

Only of ....  a few months ago a friend of yours here began attacking the church and listing everything he didn;t like about the way church is conducted in the modern age.. and tried to link everything... even the manner of dress and design of the buildings... to paganism......  i don;t remember you saying much in reply to him or making much of an effort to contradict him...
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Well... I did. But this just distracts from the point on this thread.

I will not convince you. I am happy to leave it at that.

However, you are making some false accusations and this needs to be cleared up. So, again, I ask... "Where is the mayhem, denigration of women or any such perversions in tobyMac's music? Please, give us ONE... that is all you need, ONE instance in tobyMac's music that promotes anything CLOSE to this."
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i;ll do better than that..... i;ll show one of his videos....

tobyMac - Feelin' So Fly

now turn off the sound and just watch it...... the action... intimidating poses..... the hands in the crotch...sexually suggestive movements in the dancing....(which should be denigrating to anybody when passed off as worship... not just women)....  the intrusive hands in your face antics... faces thrust into camera.... and dozens of other aspects of this are no different than movements and choreography that characterize what you call gangsta rap.....anyone watching that without the sound on....who grew up with rap... would not only instantly be reminded of the gangsta rap they remember but would in fact believe it;s exactly what was being performed...... 

but even with the sound on it;s not much different.... and in fact no different at all for those who were once immersed in rap and hip hop culture.....turn the sound up and close your eyes and you could almost be in a night club that features exotic dancers........ you can;t understand most of what is being said....  and what you can understand comes at you with an attitude that is hardly condusive to worship or bringing glory to God.... in fact i don;t see or hear anything about that performance as even attempting to bring glory to God .... it;s all about showing off the performers and glamorizing them...

this idea of rap coming from african oral traditions is a modern myth put forth by modern rappers trying to defend their creation from critics who have pointed out the damage it has done.... ... when it first came on the scene in late 1970s african american elders hated it and couldn;t stand it....  but you can believe what ever you want.....  and as far as the dancing in toby macs videos?....... i came from a family of exotic dancers and spent the first 10 years of my life immersed in all aspects of the culture.....  if you really believe that what they are doing on stage or in that video  has anything to do with glorifying God... or if you can;t see the connections between that and the "gangsta" style and still think it;s not promoting a worldly culture.....  then you have the wool pulled over your eyes.......
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Watched it with both the sound on and off and did not see anything that was intimidating, violent or sexually enticing to me.  I'm also old enough to have seen how rap has changed since the early 80's and I have to tell you, it didn't put any memories of gangsta rap to mind for me.  But, if it is a stumbling block for you, then by all means, stay away from it.  Just don't condemn what God is using to draw others to Him as unclean and unworthy.
 
BandGuy said:
Watched it with both the sound on and off and did not see anything that was intimidating, violent or sexually enticing to me.  I'm also old enough to have seen how rap has changed since the early 80's and I have to tell you, it didn't put any memories of gangsta rap to mind for me.  But, if it is a stumbling block for you, then by all means, stay away from it.  Just don't condemn what God is using to draw others to Him as unclean and unworthy.
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It looked like a parody to me.
 
Thanks for the Toby Mac video. It's a weird genre (CCM/rap fusion?), but I liked it!  ;D

The body language is (my guess) Toby Mac copying rap artists he's seen in order to try to fit into the rap genre a little and appeal to those who listen to it. It probably won't work, but I can't blame him for trying.

It's worship music in that it's in praise of God, and I think it comes from the heart.

It's not worship music in that I really couldn't see a way of using it in a church service. Kirk Franklin's style of rap/gospel fusion works a lot better in that context, though it's used mainly in black churches.


http://youtu.be/DSMrRcKklQY

(When Kirk says "GP", he's talking to God's Property, the troupe he's performing with)


P.S.:

I just gotta add the Happy Feet version because:

1) the other one is too short, truncated, maybe they ran out of film

2) this one has the lyrics; better sound too

3) dancing penguins make me smile  :)


http://youtu.be/AB9e7qCzMY0
 
aleshanee said:
admin said:
I didn't see anyone with a hand in their crotch. You are overeaching.

The dancing was hardly suggestive. It was very tame and WAAAAY different than the rap being denounced in the article you posted.

Like Bandguy said above, I believe your young age has given you a limited perspective. Rap does have origins that go much farther back than you are willing to allow. This article is speaking out against the extreme.
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ok.... before you cross the line here and start calling me a liar.... why don;t you explain just exactly what it was the guy did with his hand at the 21 to 23 second mark in the video...and again at the 2:17 to 2:19 mark.... ... or better yet.... how about inviting the rest of the forum to look at it and tell us what they think they see.........
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I didn't see anyone grabbing their crotch. You didn't either which is why you started talking about "slippin one in on the sly"

[quote author=aleshanee]you seem to have taken this whole controversy over "christian" rap very personally..... is there a reason why?......... [/font][/size]
[/quote]

I think our admin is looking for a new career and just considering his options.
 
aleshanee said:
rsc2a said:
aleshanee said:
admin said:
I didn't see anyone with a hand in their crotch. You are overeaching.

The dancing was hardly suggestive. It was very tame and WAAAAY different than the rap being denounced in the article you posted.

Like Bandguy said above, I believe your young age has given you a limited perspective. Rap does have origins that go much farther back than you are willing to allow. This article is speaking out against the extreme.
Click to expand...

ok.... before you cross the line here and start calling me a liar.... why don;t you explain just exactly what it was the guy did with his hand at the 21 to 23 second mark in the video...and again at the 2:17 to 2:19 mark.... ... or better yet.... how about inviting the rest of the forum to look at it and tell us what they think they see.........
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I didn't see anyone grabbing their crotch. You didn't either which is why you started talking about "slippin one in on the sly"

[quote author=aleshanee]you seem to have taken this whole controversy over "christian" rap very personally..... is there a reason why?......... [/font][/size]
Click to expand...

I think our admin is looking for a new career and just considering his options.
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i never said "grabbing".... i said he had his hand in his crotch..... do you understand the difference?....... and do you read the posts you reply to before frantically typing on your keyboard?[/quote]

Wow...I'll have to tell all those little old ladies how sexually suggestive they are being by sitting with their hands in their crotches.
 
rsc2a said:
aleshanee said:
rsc2a said:
aleshanee said:
admin said:
I didn't see anyone with a hand in their crotch. You are overeaching.

The dancing was hardly suggestive. It was very tame and WAAAAY different than the rap being denounced in the article you posted.

Like Bandguy said above, I believe your young age has given you a limited perspective. Rap does have origins that go much farther back than you are willing to allow. This article is speaking out against the extreme.
Click to expand...

ok.... before you cross the line here and start calling me a liar.... why don;t you explain just exactly what it was the guy did with his hand at the 21 to 23 second mark in the video...and again at the 2:17 to 2:19 mark.... ... or better yet.... how about inviting the rest of the forum to look at it and tell us what they think they see.........
Click to expand...

I didn't see anyone grabbing their crotch. You didn't either which is why you started talking about "slippin one in on the sly"

[quote author=aleshanee]you seem to have taken this whole controversy over "christian" rap very personally..... is there a reason why?......... [/font][/size]
Click to expand...

I think our admin is looking for a new career and just considering his options.
Click to expand...

i never said "grabbing".... i said he had his hand in his crotch..... do you understand the difference?....... and do you read the posts you reply to before frantically typing on your keyboard?
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Wow...I'll have to tell all those little old ladies how sexually suggestive they are being by sitting with their hands in their crotches.
[/quote]

Hands in the lap? Really? Are you really making such a comparison. Again. You're an moron. A idiot.

I didn't see any crotch grabbing but I did see some rather silly dancing with a few people humping the air. Didn't look innocent to me. I do see what aleshanee was saying. That boy couldn't help but go that direction. He just cut it off before going through with the move.
If my daughter or son was in such a video, I'd tell them I was ashamed of them.

I'll tell you what. If your guys had a daughter that was acting like those guys were in the video..... and you thought it was all cool and "fly"..... God help you.

My daughter or son aren't going thrust their hips back and forth in front of anyone.

 
rsc2a said:
aleshanee said:
rsc2a said:
aleshanee said:
admin said:
I didn't see anyone with a hand in their crotch. You are overeaching.

The dancing was hardly suggestive. It was very tame and WAAAAY different than the rap being denounced in the article you posted.

Like Bandguy said above, I believe your young age has given you a limited perspective. Rap does have origins that go much farther back than you are willing to allow. This article is speaking out against the extreme.
Click to expand...

ok.... before you cross the line here and start calling me a liar.... why don;t you explain just exactly what it was the guy did with his hand at the 21 to 23 second mark in the video...and again at the 2:17 to 2:19 mark.... ... or better yet.... how about inviting the rest of the forum to look at it and tell us what they think they see.........
Click to expand...

I didn't see anyone grabbing their crotch. You didn't either which is why you started talking about "slippin one in on the sly"

[quote author=aleshanee]you seem to have taken this whole controversy over "christian" rap very personally..... is there a reason why?......... [/font][/size]
Click to expand...

I think our admin is looking for a new career and just considering his options.
Click to expand...

i never said "grabbing".... i said he had his hand in his crotch..... do you understand the difference?....... and do you read the posts you reply to before frantically typing on your keyboard?
Click to expand...

Wow...I'll have to tell all those little old ladies how sexually suggestive they are being by sitting with their hands in their crotches.
[/quote]

Really?
I hope you get a clue for Christmas..... ;)
 
To me, music is a matter of taste, preference, style and not necessarily right or wrong.
However, if a 'Christian' video lends itself to a an argument over the definition of crotch grabbing....that makes a statement to me...but that's just me, I'm sure!  ;)

The CCM culture, by and large, seeks to imitate various other music genres and make 'christian' an adjective.
Not that there's anything sinful about that in itself...a little pathetic or 'lame' maybe, but not sinful!
 
[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]However, if a 'Christian' video lends itself to a an argument over the definition of crotch grabbing....that makes a statement to me...[/quote]

Actually people seeing delusions lends itself to an argument over the definition of crotch grabbing. Because you'll notice that we've had five people weigh in, per the original challenge, and no one has seen the alleged behavior.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]The CCM culture, by and large, seeks to imitate various other music genres and make 'christian' an adjective.

Not that there's anything sinful about that in itself...a little pathetic or 'lame' maybe, but not sinful!
[/quote]

One could argue that all of culture is just a recycling of other past ideas. Traditionalists are just as much for imitating others; they just prefer to imitate cultural ideas from an earlier time period.

And I'm not necessarily opposed to making Christian an adjective since we should be redeeming and reconciling all of creation. I'm opposed to making "Christian" a brand which, yes, a lot of CCM is guilty of.
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]However, if a 'Christian' video lends itself to a an argument over the definition of crotch grabbing....that makes a statement to me...
Click to expand...

Actually people seeing delusions lends itself to an argument over the definition of crotch grabbing. Because you'll notice that we've had five people weigh in, per the original challenge, and no one has seen the alleged behavior.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]The CCM culture, by and large, seeks to imitate various other music genres and make 'christian' an adjective.

Not that there's anything sinful about that in itself...a little pathetic or 'lame' maybe, but not sinful!
[/quote]

One could argue that all of culture is just a recycling of other past ideas. Traditionalists are just as much for imitating others; they just prefer to imitate cultural ideas from an earlier time period.

And I'm not necessarily opposed to making Christian an adjective since we should be redeeming and reconciling all of creation. I'm opposed to making "Christian" a brand which, yes, a lot of CCM is guilty of.
[/quote]

Delusion? Hardly.
I'd say he is just trying to add his version of 'christian' to the incessant crotch grabbing found in secular rap!
Sinful? in the eyes of the beholder.
Lame...definitely!

Christian is an adjective to many in this culture....I'd hardly be surprised if someone came up with Christian porn or Christian prostitution.


Can I get an 'Amen"....Glory!  8)

I'd add that I'm not necessarily against CCM/Christian Rap.
Like some of Toby Mac's music...but it is what it is....
 
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