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[Binaca Chugger]

Exodus 32

LOL! Good one.

Is that an agreement?  Or do you think I am mocking?  Or are you unclear of the significance of the passage?

Sometimes we lose tone of speech in text communication

 

[Binaca Chugger]

UNLESS there is clear Scripture prohibiting such... which is still absent from this discussion.

Psalm 29

 

[Ransom]

Is that an agreement?  Or do you think I am mocking?  Or are you unclear of the significance of the passage?

I find the use of Exodus 32 to justify a prohibition of modern music to be a comedic masterpiece.

Intentional or not is beside the point. The fact that someone tries is hilarious.

Case in point.

 

[lnf]

It appears that we all have our comfort zones as to what is or is not acceptable.

I believe that the "meat offered to idols" teaching applies here. Some come from backgrounds that cause their consciences to see things that are not obvious to others.

I have viewed this video a number of times. I showed it to my wife who has a more sensitive conscience and she is not bothered in the least by it.

tobyMac's music has profoundly helped my daughters. My oldest, on her own, has all but given up secular music because of its oversexualization.

I don't get "worked up" about this. I simply do not let other Christians, due to their "sensitized consciences" foist rules of behavior on my family UNLESS there is clear Scripture prohibiting such... which is still absent from this discussion.

HaHa!  Comfort zones...well, that pegs it right there!  I watched the video without sound, and it was WAY outside of my comfort zone. 

What does your daughter consider to be oversexualization?  Lyrics only?  Based upon the posted video...the only one I can speak to,  I saw hip thrusts from several of the dancers...and I also saw what aleshanee talked about...not a full-on crotch-grab, but a gesture.  Granted, I'm probably 35 or so years older than your daughter, but from my point of view, the dancing is nasty.  Frankly, I'd advise my 20-year old son to avoid watching that particular video.  Aside from whatever "Christian" lyrics Mr. Mac is rapping, the dancing is still nasty.

Mr. Admin, I'm not purposefully giving you a hard time or criticizing how you raise your family, but you have been quite critical of others with a different "comfort zone". 

Perhaps you might consider being a little kinder in your disagreement.     

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Is that an agreement?  Or do you think I am mocking?  Or are you unclear of the significance of the passage?

I find the use of Exodus 32 to justify a prohibition of modern music to be a comedic masterpiece.

Intentional or not is beside the point. The fact that someone tries is hilarious.

Case in point.

Please allow me to simply and politely present my point of view:

Israel was worshiping Jehovah, according to Aaron.
They use the worship manner of Egypt (Golden calf - a representation of the son of the god of power)
They use the dress of Egypt (nakedness)
They use the music of Egypt (Rythmic beat designed to move the body to work or war - clashing sounds - undiscernable words - shouting and screaming - or: music associated with sin/Egypt)
God's response to this manner of worshiping Him: "Let me alone that my wrath may wax hot against them - consume them"

Apparently, some styles of worship to God makes God so angry, He would rather kill you than listen to it.  At least, that's what I read.  But, I use the KJV, you folks probably have a more modern god represented to you in your modern translation. ok - that was snarky.

Back to my point.  Apparently it is quite possible to sin in your attempt to worship God.  The pharisees (our modern IFB NADD  movement) were told this by Christ.  Amos told the king (Our modern Christians who worship in ceremony only) to "Come to Bethel and transgress." 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Let them praise his name with dancing. Ps 149

Adonai is the subject of the song to which they are dancing. It would be quite interesting to have been there, in David's day, with some on this forum who are against this.

hmmmmmmmmm..............

sexual gestures vs the Hebrew shuffle step and clap.  I would rather have been there in David's day.

 

[Ransom]

Apparently, some styles of worship to God makes God so angry, He would rather kill you than listen to it.  At least, that's what I read.

I don't know what you're reading. The issue wasn't the style of worship, it was the object of worship.

The noise in the camp (remarked upon only by Joshua and Moses, not God) was simply the reason they could tell from a distance something was amiss.

Don't read into the passage something that isn't there.

 

[prophet]

Apparently, some styles of worship to God makes God so angry, He would rather kill you than listen to it.  At least, that's what I read.

I don't know what you're reading. The issue wasn't the style of worship, it was the object of worship.

The noise in the camp (remarked upon only by Joshua and Moses, not God) was simply the reason they could tell from a distance something was amiss.

Don't read into the passage something that isn't there.

Egypt's worship had established ritual. 
I doubt the Hebrews, being slaves, did.
Later on, their culture took shape, but this calf dancing was prolly pre-packaged up in the Gyp, dig?

Anishinaabe

 

[christundivided]

Let them praise his name with dancing. Ps 149

Adonai is the subject of the song to which they are dancing. It would be quite interesting to have been there, in David's day, with some on this forum who are against this.

1Ch 15:27  And David was clothed with a robe of fine linen, and all the Levites that bare the ark, and the singers, and Chenaniah the master of the song with the singers: David also had upon him an ephod of linen.

If you study the LXX and the Syriac you will find David wore a robe and not just a "loin cloth". Even 1 Chronicles 15:27 teaches the same in the MT. The "dance" David did was nothing more than "leaping and skipping". So you have a King dressed just like the Priests.....leaping and skipping while playing an instrument. Certainly enough to make a Queen upset and not much of anyone else in attendance.  He certainly wasn't dressed like a King nor did he act like a "ROYAL" King.... but you'll never turn that into being just like a Toby Mac video about being "fly". 

Don't get me wrong. Not condemning most any music. Just saying it not what everyone is portraying.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBMxpDbp51A

You don't see Cookie Monster grabbing his crotch.  Then again, I don't think Cookie Monster has a crotch.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Apparently, some styles of worship to God makes God so angry, He would rather kill you than listen to it.  At least, that's what I read.

I don't know what you're reading. The issue wasn't the style of worship, it was the object of worship.

yet, aaron proclaimed that the feast would be to the LORD.  Hence, I believe it was the manner of worship, not the object of worship.  The Israelites would have well understood the symbolism coming out of Egypt.  This was not a new god.  This was a representation of the son of the god of power.  Aaron was trying to represent Jehovah to the people in a way that they understood.  God grew angry at this manner of worship.

Maybe the only reason we are told of their music is to know that they knew the people were singing.  However, I cannot disconnect the music to the manner of worship that made God angry. 

 

[MrsRow]

the passage states that they worshipped the calf. They were no longer worshipping the God which brought them out of bondage, they turned aside and asked for gods to be made for them to worship.  Also, they were dancing naked. So they turned from God and asked Aaron to make gods for them to worship instead because they didnt know what had become of Moses.  So .. it wasn't that God was displeased with their type of worship to Him, it seems God was angry that they had turned away from Him and made a golden calf god and worshipped it instead, also that they were naked.

 

[rsc2a]

the passage states that they worshipped the calf. They were no longer worshipping the God which brought them out of bondage, they turned aside and asked for gods to be made for them to worship.  Also, they were dancing naked. So they turned from God and asked Aaron to make gods for them to worship instead because they didnt know what had become of Moses.  So .. it wasn't that God was displeased with their type of worship to Him, it seems God was angry that they had turned away from Him and made a golden calf god and worshipped it instead, also that they were naked.

Actually, many to most of the translations (and commentators) think that "the people were naked" would better be understood as "the people were out of control".


Of course either rendering doesn't say anything about a particular musical genre being wrong, so it's kind of a rabbit trail. 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

the passage states that they worshipped the calf. They were no longer worshipping the God which brought them out of bondage, they turned aside and asked for gods to be made for them to worship.  Also, they were dancing naked. So they turned from God and asked Aaron to make gods for them to worship instead because they didnt know what had become of Moses.  So .. it wasn't that God was displeased with their type of worship to Him, it seems God was angry that they had turned away from Him and made a golden calf god and worshipped it instead, also that they were naked.

In verse 1, the people asked Aaron to make them gods because they do not know what happened to Moses.

Exo 32:4  And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Exo 32:5  And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
Exo 32:6  And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

They were worshiping God in the manner of Egypt.  Aaron tried teaching helping them understand God by presenting Him to them in the culture from which they came.

Like unto.......

A new Christian goes to church, but is unsure about their station in life.  The pastor, not believing the people understand sanctification, presents God in the manner of the world to help people understand.  The music, the dance, the........ (we have come a long way, baby) all is the culture of the world, but dedicated to the LORD.

I find great similarity in such manners of worship.  I believe that God has not changed His preferences, so I choose not to worship God in such a manner.

 

[rsc2a]

They were worshiping God in the manner of Egypt.  Aaron tried teaching helping them understand God by presenting Him to them in the culture from which they came.

Like unto.......

A new Christian goes to church, but is unsure about their station in life.  The pastor, not believing the people understand sanctification, presents God in the manner of the world to help people understand.  The music, the dance, the........ (we have come a long way, baby) all is the culture of the world, but dedicated to the LORD.

I find great similarity in such manners of worship.  I believe that God has not changed His preferences, so I choose not to worship God in such a manner.

I know! It's almost like an apostle quoting pagan poets to relay the gospel or something!

 

[christundivided]

They were worshiping God in the manner of Egypt.  Aaron tried teaching helping them understand God by presenting Him to them in the culture from which they came.

Like unto.......

A new Christian goes to church, but is unsure about their station in life.  The pastor, not believing the people understand sanctification, presents God in the manner of the world to help people understand.  The music, the dance, the........ (we have come a long way, baby) all is the culture of the world, but dedicated to the LORD.

I find great similarity in such manners of worship.  I believe that God has not changed His preferences, so I choose not to worship God in such a manner.

I know! It's almost like an apostle quoting pagan poets to relay the gospel or something!

That pagan wasn't talking about Jesus Christ. So don't say Paul was quoting a pagan poet who referenced Jesus Christ. Paul simply used his words to show those he spoke with... that they were surrounded by witnesses to some form of "deity". The battle has never been IF there is a God.... Its always been about WHO THAT GOD IS. Too many people believe atheist are the enemy when it actually more an issue with those who believe in an imaginary representation of the Only True God.

Hence the use to the words.... "Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you."

 

[Ransom]

Maybe the only reason we are told of their music is to know that they knew the people were singing.

Maybe. Certainly we're never told what kind of music it was, so it can hardly be legitimate to identify a particular 20th-century format as "the music of Egypt."

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Apparently, some styles of worship to God makes God so angry, He would rather kill you than listen to it.  At least, that's what I read.

I don't know what you're reading. The issue wasn't the style of worship, it was the object of worship.

The noise in the camp (remarked upon only by Joshua and Moses, not God) was simply the reason they could tell from a distance something was amiss.

Don't read into the passage something that isn't there.

I basically agree, but often the object of worship dictates the style of worship, so his point isn't totally moot.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Maybe the only reason we are told of their music is to know that they knew the people were singing.

Maybe. Certainly we're never told what kind of music it was, so it can hardly be legitimate to identify a particular 20th-century format as "the music of Egypt."

Correct.  Though I have studied some Egyptology, I have not heard a representation of the music of that day from that region.  We have discovered many of their instruments, but not the sounds of those instruments combined and sang in order, though a strong hypothesis may be formed.  We do know that Egypt represents sin and carnality.  So, the questions is then asked: "Is this genre normally associated with sin, vice, carnality?"  If so, I should not use that music to worship God.

 

[Ransom]

We do know that Egypt represents sin and carnality.  So, the questions is then asked: "Is this genre normally associated with sin, vice, carnality?"  If so, I should not use that music to worship God.

So the only way to make Exod. 32 apply to the contemporary Christian music debate is to abandon any serious exegesis of Exod. 32!