REALLY Bizarre Question?

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Vince Massi

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Brethren, this just came up, and we could be on to something.

Why did Jack Hyles succeed?

Please leave out the idealism (Anything good about Jack Hyles is evil, even if true. Anything bad about Jack Hyles is good, even if false) and answer the question.

Why did Jack Hyles succeed?
 
Vince Massi said:
Brethren, this just came up, and we could be on to something.

Why did Jack Hyles succeed?

Please leave out the idealism (Anything good about Jack Hyles is evil, even if true. Anything bad about Jack Hyles is good, even if false) and answer the question.

Why did Jack Hyles succeed?
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The reason Jack Hyles succeeded is the same for Trump. They both connected with their base and that connection attracted those on the fringes of the bases.
 
Vince Massi said:
Brethren, this just came up, and we could be on to something.

Why did Jack Hyles succeed?

Please leave out the idealism (Anything good about Jack Hyles is evil, even if true. Anything bad about Jack Hyles is good, even if false) and answer the question.

Why did Jack Hyles succeed?
Click to expand...

No, it didn't just come up and no we are not on to something.
 
Vince Massi said:
Brethren, this just came up, and we could be on to something.

Why did Jack Hyles succeed?

Please leave out the idealism (Anything good about Jack Hyles is evil, even if true. Anything bad about Jack Hyles is good, even if false) and answer the question.

Why did Jack Hyles succeed?
Click to expand...
That is bizarre..........for you to think that JH was a success. Did that come about because of a secular or biblical viewpoint?
 
[/quote]That is bizarre..........for you to think that JH was a success. Did that come about because of a secular of biblical viewpoint?
[/quote]

Valid question. He built one of the largest churches in history. His overall ministry (including people he influenced) brought in hundreds of thousands of PROFESSIONS. His ministry provided areas of service for large numbers of Christians, and he helped large numbers of Christians grow.

Yes, I know about the bad stuff, including the fact that he personally destroyed much of his own good.  But I want to get ideas and information of the good stuff because I'm trying to figure something out.
 
Jack was often asked how he explained his success, and he always gave the same answer: a strong stand for God's Word.

And as a strong fundamentalist, he was used by God to build a church with over 40,000 attendance. But when the Dave Hyles scandal broke, he publicly rejected God's Word in favor of the KJV. He then led one of the biggest failures in Church history, taking the church down to less than 6,000 before he died.

There are other reasons, good and bad. But it appears that this is one of the good ones.
 
Vince Massi said:
Jack was often asked how he explained his success, and he always gave the same answer: a strong stand for God's Word.

And as a strong fundamentalist, he was used by God to build a church with over 40,000 attendance. But when the Dave Hyles scandal broke, he publicly rejected God's Word in favor of the KJV. He then led one of the biggest failures in Church history, taking the church down to less than 6,000 before he died.

There are other reasons, good and bad. But it appears that this is one of the good ones.
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Regardless of where you stand on other versions this statement makes it sound as if the KJV is not the Word of God.  You may have misstated this or it could be Freudian.  I would hope that this is not your true belief.
 
"Regardless of where you stand on other versions this statement makes it sound as if the KJV is not the Word of God.  You may have misstated this or it could be Freudian.  I would hope that this is not your true belief."

Which KJV do you believe is the Word of God?
 
I would seriously question the 40,000 in attendance. I went to FBCH for 25 years and in that time I heard more attendance numbers than you can imagine. I don't know how you count that many people but when it comes to numbers, I question everything from the Hyles era at FBCH.
 
BALAAM said:
I would seriously question the 40,000 in attendance. I went to FBCH for 25 years and in that time I heard more attendance numbers than you can imagine. I don't know how you count that many people but when it comes to numbers, I question everything from the Hyles era at FBCH.
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What he said. Maybe 20,000 on a big day when off campus numbers are used, but they never averaged close to 10,000.
 
Vince Massi said:
"Regardless of where you stand on other versions this statement makes it sound as if the KJV is not the Word of God.  You may have misstated this or it could be Freudian.  I would hope that this is not your true belief."

Which KJV do you believe is the Word of God?
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Your question is quite telling.  This is the problem I have with those who have embraced modern versions so voraciously mostly done without any real textual criticism whatsoever.  (Present company excluded)  Its not the simple embracing the modern version but it is the derision and as I am questioning the complete dismissal and many times disdain of the KJV.

As for your question, I personally believe all KJ versions to be the Word of God, not because of the infallibility of the translator or transcriber but because the Preserver, Perfector and Proctor lives in my heart.
 
Baptist City Holdout said:
BALAAM said:
I would seriously question the 40,000 in attendance. I went to FBCH for 25 years and in that time I heard more attendance numbers than you can imagine. I don't know how you count that many people but when it comes to numbers, I question everything from the Hyles era at FBCH.
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What he said. Maybe 20,000 on a big day when off campus numbers are used, but they never averaged close to 10,000.
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Unless it is counted the way the Mega churches count their numbers.  All attendance of all services combined.
 
When I was at HAC, we had a spring and fall program every year. Every program was bigger than the previous one, and every program met its goal.  In the 1977 spring program, the goal was to average 40,000, and we achieved that goal. I graduated shortly afterwards.

Over the next few years, I heard consistently that FBCH continued to gain with every spring and fall program, but I cannot remember the numbers. The collapse of FBCH began after the Dave Hyles scandal broke, when Jack repudiated the Word of God in favor of the KJV.

With a lot of input from a lot of people on an older FFF, the consensus was that FBCH was running under 6,000 when Jack died.
 
Vince Massi said:
When I was at HAC, we had a spring and fall program every year. Every program was bigger than the previous one, and every program met its goal.  In the 1977 spring program, the goal was to average 40,000, and we achieved that goal. I graduated shortly afterwards.

Over the next few years, I heard consistently that FBCH continued to gain with every spring and fall program, but I cannot remember the numbers. The collapse of FBCH began after the Dave Hyles scandal broke, when Jack repudiated the Word of God in favor of the KJV.

With a lot of input from a lot of people on an older FFF, the consensus was that FBCH was running under 6,000 when Jack died.
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Ever heard the term cooked the books?

 
Brethren, I have enjoyed the intelligent posts, and I am not offended at people who disagree with me in a Christian manner. But getting back to the original subject:

Jack often taught and preached that we are not to criticize other Christians. Although he occasionally did, overall he practiced what he preached. I was there at a time when Bob Jones Jr. and John R. Rice were busily ripping into each other, and Hyles stayed out of it.

I was present when he went on a rip-roaring rampage against Billy Graham for saying that drinking alcohol in moderation is not forbidden by Scripture, but other than that, I never heard him criticize Graham. While Rice and Jones were criticizing Graham for his ecumenism, Jack stayed out of it.

There is a Scriptural basis for saying that humility results from not attacking God's people. Could Jack's success, at least in part, have resulted from his usual obedience to that command?
 
James 4:10 commands us:

"Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up."

Okay, but HOW do you humble yourself in the sight of the Lord? There is more than one way, and the next two verses give one of them:

"11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another? "

Did Jack humble himself in the sight of God to the point that God blessed him for it? Seeing his churches growing successfully while most others did not do as well, did Jack humbly avoid criticizing others (most of the time), and God lifted him up as a result?
 
Bro. Hyles was amazingly "humble" and "overtly proud" at the same time....quite strange.

He humbled himself before God and his people.  However, he overinflated the importance of his ministry and the successes of it.  I always felt his self promotion was primarily to motivate us and not to magnify himself.  However, there were plenty of times I turned off by his braggadocios statements.

To answer your primary question, What made Dr. Hyles so successful?  I would say it was his heart.  Many other preachers have been great orators and took even stronger stands on standards and the Bible who have never scratched surface of his success.  Dr. Hyles truly loved people.  The few interactions I had with him as a college student in the late 90's up to his death were life changing.  When he would shake my hand in the alley after service, it was obvious that he loved me and cared for me.  The love of Dr. Hyles is the most overlooked facet of his ministry.  Others choose to focus on the outward Dr. Hyles but forget his love for others.
 
Vince,

IMHO, I think you are asking the wrong questions.  Did Jack Hyles really succeed? 

What if he gained the whole world and lost his own soul?  That would not be successful.

What if he had the largest church in the world but lost the relationships with his wife and children?  Is that success?

Define success for me.....not Webster's definition but yours.

I tend to think more about a veteran who lost his legs during the war and gets up each day to try to get his strength back.  That is a daily challenge, and if they can get prosthetics and walk again - THAT is success.

Is that idealism or just truth?

I don't know you, but from your posts you seem to be obsessed with success.
 
I think these are the wrong questions.

Was Jesus Glorified?

Did anyone have their live changed for eternity by what God did through him?

Therefore was Jesus glorified?

It matters not whether Jack Hyles was a success because that is very subjective.  And as far as what Jesus says to him at the Bema; that is not a matter for any man to decide.

I think we are better off trying to make sure what we want said by Jesus of ourselves at the Bema the more important question because that is all the control and concern any of us should have.
 
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