Serving Gays

[subllibrm]

So the ongoing kerfuffle about whether or not a baker can refuse to make a cake for a same sex "wedding" has me thinking.

We own a small t-shirt embroidery business. I want to advertise and have been told that once you leave "word of mouth" and into the public realm you become an "accommodation" and must serve all potential clients equally. The ad idea I am kicking around mentions wedding gifts. Bridal party gifts. Honeymoon hoodies. That sort of thing.

So if Tim and Tom show up and want a matching set of his and his jackets, it would seem that I am required to provide the request. On the different forums and comment pages I have heard way too many suggestions on how to "show them a thing or two". My thought went instead to giving them the best service possible. At cost. Then they can't call me a bigot and no one else can accuse me of profiting off of their sin.

Chewing. Chewing. Chewing.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

If you provide service, you might make a business relationship that may develop into an opportunity to eventually tell them about Christ. If you push them away, you lose all opportunity.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

And if refusing to make cakes for people who are gay, why not refuse for other sins in which the wedding and/or reception might do such as gluttony? Drunkenness? Receptions that will have provocative dancing? Non-Christians? Couples of mixed faiths?

And how about where the bride wears a gaudy, expensive wedding dress in clear violation of I Timothy 2:9?

 

[Recovering IFB]

Or a Muslim? How about a couple wanting to celebrate the birth of a child they had out of wedlock? Or what if you are Armenian and a customer is a Calvinist?....

 

[Ransom]

And if refusing to make cakes for people who are gay, why not refuse for other sins in which the wedding and/or reception might do such as gluttony? Drunkenness? Receptions that will have provocative dancing? Non-Christians? Couples of mixed faiths?

And how about where the bride wears a gaudy, expensive wedding dress in clear violation of I Timothy 2:9?

Yes indeed, there are many sins one could list that are distractions from the matter at hand!

 

[Ransom]

If I were in a business that primarily serviced weddings, I probably woudn't refuse same-sex business. On the other hand. my stationery and promotional literature would prominently feature such Bible verses as Gen. 2:21-22 or Eph. 5:25-27, and also lots of pictures of heterosexuals in public displays of affection.

It would be a matter of professional pride that I would do as excellent work as I was capable.

On the other hand, not one of the same-sex jobs would ever appear in my professonal portfolio, or my Web site, and so forth. I would do the work, but I would not promote it in any way that might be construed as approval.

 

[Bruh]

And if refusing to make cakes for people who are gay, why not refuse for other sins in which the wedding and/or reception might do such as gluttony? Drunkenness? Receptions that will have provocative dancing? Non-Christians? Couples of mixed faiths?

And how about where the bride wears a gaudy, expensive wedding dress in clear violation of I Timothy 2:9?

Yes indeed, there are many sins one could list that are distractions from the matter at hand!

And I'm sure he would be as disappointed with his daughter whether she brought home a girlfriend or over ate way to much at a wedding reception. 

 

[Izdaari]

I'm totally fine with serving people whose convictions are different than my own. IFB's for example. 

 

[Biker]

So the ongoing kerfuffle about whether or not a baker can refuse to make a cake for a same sex "wedding" has me thinking.

We own a small t-shirt embroidery business. I want to advertise and have been told that once you leave "word of mouth" and into the public realm you become an "accommodation" and must serve all potential clients equally. The ad idea I am kicking around mentions wedding gifts. Bridal party gifts. Honeymoon hoodies. That sort of thing.

So if Tim and Tom show up and want a matching set of his and his jackets, it would seem that I am required to provide the request. On the different forums and comment pages I have heard way too many suggestions on how to "show them a thing or two". My thought went instead to giving them the best service possible. At cost. Then they can't call me a bigot and no one else can accuse me of profiting off of their sin.

Chewing. Chewing. Chewing.

Some thoughts here. Your advertising method CAN determine whether you fall under public accommodation laws.
http://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/public-accommodations.html

If you advertise to the public, then I believe you must then...serve the public. Maybe you could discreetly get your own clients instead. That's what I did. I do not even have a "public" website. You can charge much more so they couldn't afford your services. Just be careful imho, just because someone seems gay doesn't mean they are. If you do solicit clients, and they surprise you with an ongoing contract for shirts then you suddenly need to hire employees. Good people whose life doesn't revolve around their own abominations due to laws that may allow them to push them in the workplace. If set up right, ahead of time, you can avoid it. Shows respect of your other or future employees. We have no federal laws which come into play yet so it would depend upon your State laws or County ordinances. I wouldn't refuse but just say I am too busy to accept new customers. Just Some thoughts. Good luck with your business

 

[Biker]

If I were in a business that primarily serviced weddings, I probably woudn't refuse same-sex business. On the other hand. my stationery and promotional literature would prominently feature such Bible verses as Gen. 2:21-22 or Eph. 5:25-27, and also lots of pictures of heterosexuals in public displays of affection.

I think that might instigate them into a lawsuit or harassing you at the very least. They seem to enjoy that

 

[Biker]

And if refusing to make cakes for people who are gay, why not refuse for other sins in which the wedding and/or reception might do such as gluttony? Drunkenness? Receptions that will have provocative dancing? Non-Christians? Couples of mixed faiths?

And how about where the bride wears a gaudy, expensive wedding dress in clear violation of I Timothy 2:9?

huh???
If a business owner invents specific sins his possible clients/customers *might do*, as you purport here...
then assume his imagination is fact and refuse to do business with them
I'd assume he is grappling with a mental illness

Cause what you purport here makes no sense. Is this suppose to be some kind of rebuttal?

 

[Reformed Guy]

So the ongoing kerfuffle about whether or not a baker can refuse to make a cake for a same sex "wedding" has me thinking.

We own a small t-shirt embroidery business. I want to advertise and have been told that once you leave "word of mouth" and into the public realm you become an "accommodation" and must serve all potential clients equally. The ad idea I am kicking around mentions wedding gifts. Bridal party gifts. Honeymoon hoodies. That sort of thing.

So if Tim and Tom show up and want a matching set of his and his jackets, it would seem that I am required to provide the request. On the different forums and comment pages I have heard way too many suggestions on how to "show them a thing or two". My thought went instead to giving them the best service possible. At cost. Then they can't call me a bigot and no one else can accuse me of profiting off of their sin.

Chewing. Chewing. Chewing.

That's almost what I would do.  I wouldn't sell "at cost" but rather sell at regular price and donate the profits to a Christian organization that works to uphold "traditional" marriage. 

And I would let Tim and Tom know where the proceeds were going...

 

[HeDied4U]

If you provide service, you might make a business relationship that may develop into an opportunity to eventually tell them about Christ. If you push them away, you lose all opportunity.

If I were in a business that primarily serviced weddings, I probably wouldn't refuse same-sex business. On the other hand. my stationery and promotional literature would prominently feature such Bible verses as Gen. 2:21-22 or Eph. 5:25-27, and also lots of pictures of heterosexuals in public displays of affection.

It would be a matter of professional pride that I would do as excellent work as I was capable.

On the other hand, not one of the same-sex jobs would ever appear in my professional portfolio, or my Web site, and so forth. I would do the work, but I would not promote it in any way that might be construed as approval.

Two of the best answers I've seen on the subject. Both are level-headed answers and devoid of hatred. Hatred seems to be a common theme on a lot of the other forums I've visited.

 

[subllibrm]

So the ongoing kerfuffle about whether or not a baker can refuse to make a cake for a same sex "wedding" has me thinking.

We own a small t-shirt embroidery business. I want to advertise and have been told that once you leave "word of mouth" and into the public realm you become an "accommodation" and must serve all potential clients equally. The ad idea I am kicking around mentions wedding gifts. Bridal party gifts. Honeymoon hoodies. That sort of thing.

So if Tim and Tom show up and want a matching set of his and his jackets, it would seem that I am required to provide the request. On the different forums and comment pages I have heard way too many suggestions on how to "show them a thing or two". My thought went instead to giving them the best service possible. At cost. Then they can't call me a bigot and no one else can accuse me of profiting off of their sin.

Chewing. Chewing. Chewing.

That's almost what I would do.  I wouldn't sell "at cost" but rather sell at regular price and donate the profits to a Christian organization that works to uphold "traditional" marriage. 

And I would let Tim and Tom know where the proceeds were going...

I like it ! 

 

[subllibrm]

If you provide service, you might make a business relationship that may develop into an opportunity to eventually tell them about Christ. If you push them away, you lose all opportunity.

If I were in a business that primarily serviced weddings, I probably wouldn't refuse same-sex business. On the other hand. my stationery and promotional literature would prominently feature such Bible verses as Gen. 2:21-22 or Eph. 5:25-27, and also lots of pictures of heterosexuals in public displays of affection.

It would be a matter of professional pride that I would do as excellent work as I was capable.

On the other hand, not one of the same-sex jobs would ever appear in my professional portfolio, or my Web site, and so forth. I would do the work, but I would not promote it in any way that might be construed as approval.

Two of the best answers I've seen on the subject. Both are level-headed answers and devoid of hatred. Hatred seems to be a common theme on a lot of the other forums I've visited.

I never meant to imply any hatred. I honestly want to be prepared if I were ever put in such a situation. At this point I would say that Ransom and Reformed Guy have given the best ideas. And Smellin' is correct, there is no need to make it a point of alienation toward another person bearing the image of God.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I'm still waiting for a gay couple to ask a Muslim catering outfit to cater bacon hors-d'oeuvres at their wedding and be refused that service.  Liberal heads would explode trying to figure out who to defend.

 

[HeDied4U]

If you provide service, you might make a business relationship that may develop into an opportunity to eventually tell them about Christ. If you push them away, you lose all opportunity.

If I were in a business that primarily serviced weddings, I probably wouldn't refuse same-sex business. On the other hand. my stationery and promotional literature would prominently feature such Bible verses as Gen. 2:21-22 or Eph. 5:25-27, and also lots of pictures of heterosexuals in public displays of affection.

It would be a matter of professional pride that I would do as excellent work as I was capable.

On the other hand, not one of the same-sex jobs would ever appear in my professional portfolio, or my Web site, and so forth. I would do the work, but I would not promote it in any way that might be construed as approval.

Two of the best answers I've seen on the subject. Both are level-headed answers and devoid of hatred. Hatred seems to be a common theme on a lot of the other forums I've visited.

I never meant to imply any hatred. I honestly want to be prepared if I were ever put in such a situation. At this point I would say that Ransom and Reformed Guy have given the best ideas. And Smellin' is correct, there is no need to make it a point of alienation toward another person bearing the image of God.

You didn't. Yours is a good response as well. I was referring to threats, vicious name calling and the like. People, on both sides of the argument, acting like rapid dogs.

 

[Ransom]

I think that might instigate them into a lawsuit or harassing you at the very least. They seem to enjoy that

I didn't refuse them service. On what grounds would they sue?

 

[Ransom]

I'm still waiting for a gay couple to ask a Muslim catering outfit to cater bacon hors-d'oeuvres at their wedding and be refused that service.  Liberal heads would explode trying to figure out who to defend.

A few years ago in Toronto, a lesbian went into a Muslim-owned barber shop for a haircut. He refused on religious grounds, as he was not allowed to touch a woman outside of his close family. So of course she complained to the Human Rights Commission.

It was a textbook case of competing rights, and possibly would have resolved the age-old question of whether Muslims or gays rank higher on the grievance totem pole. However, they settled and the details are private, so we may never know.

It would seem to me, however, that the religious person wins by default. I mean, would you really want to get a haircut or eat a cake from someone whom you sued, and was doing so under compulsion?

 

[subllibrm]

I'm still waiting for a gay couple to ask a Muslim catering outfit to cater bacon hors-d'oeuvres at their wedding and be refused that service.  Liberal heads would explode trying to figure out who to defend.

A few years ago in Toronto, a lesbian went into a Muslim-owned barber shop for a haircut. He refused on religious grounds, as he was not allowed to touch a woman outside of his close family. So of course she complained to the Human Rights Commission.

It was a textbook case of competing rights, and possibly would have resolved the age-old question of whether Muslims or gays rank higher on the grievance totem pole. However, they settled and the details are private, so we may never know.

It would seem to me, however, that the religious person wins by default. I mean, would you really want to get a haircut or eat a cake from someone whom you sued, and was doing so under compulsion?

People have spit in food at the diner for less reason!