Should a Deacon Be Doctrinally Secure with Church Doctrinal Statement?

[praise_yeshua]

No one is adding to the Scriptures. If that is the case, next time you teach a Bible lesson... You had better not give any explanations of the text.

Paul spoke of and even quoted from "faithful and trustworthy sayings."

Sure you are. Post your statement and I'll prove it.

Paul quoted from the Scriptures.

Certain ?faithful sayings? were inscripturated.
The apostles did not criticize or rebuke people for saying and writing things that were true about Scripture. Instead, they encouraged the use of confessions.

The apostles called them ?sound words? and most usually ?trustworthy sayings.? Paul incorporated certain ?faithful sayings? into his writings.3

Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. . . . (1Ti 1.15)

Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. (1Ti 3.1)

This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. (1Ti 4.9?10)

Beautiful... Beautiful....

Now show me a doctrinal statement that mimics Paul's words. I've never seen one that included "Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners."

All you're doing is abusing the use of the Scriptures for your own profit. Nothing more.

 

[praise_yeshua]

But, it also seems important to have a document highlighting the beliefs of that congregation to refute false teaching. To make a clear statement that the Church believes in salvation only through Jesus Christ, the virgin birth, trinity ... but quickly that can build into opinion when it comes to Christian conduct and such.

So your Church doesn't preach this? If they preach it, then why do you need the doctrinal statement?

I just looked at our Churches belief statement on our website, and the first paragraph states "We further believe the Authorized King James Version as being God?s word preserved for the English Language, and as the only Bible by which we study and preach" ... I know quite a few who don't believe this at the Church. So. It seems rather a lie published.

Even more reason to reject a doctrinal statement. They included superficial statements that are not being practiced within the congregation. In other words.... the statement is full of hypocrisy.

 

[praise_yeshua]

... why do you need the doctrinal statement?

Accountability?

Accountability to the local assembly?

 

[prophet]

The subject of appointing a new deacon has come up at our Church. While it isn't confirmed, it might be that yours truly could be considered for the role of deacon.

I thought this could be a springboard for a thread regarding Deacons, their role, and specifically what the Bible says in 1 Timothy 3:1-7. How closely are Churches matching men to 1 Timothy? Should that man be 100% in agreement with the Churches printed doctrinal statement?

How would you respond to such a nomination?

Absolutely. "They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience...Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus."

Of course this assumes that the Doctrinal statement is sound.

In other words..... forget adhering to the principles of the Scriptures. You must focus on the churches "doctrinal statement"!

I don't understand why churches create such things. Just hold up your bible and say I believe the Scriptures.

After reading many threads on this forum over the last several months...that would not work either.  There are those who have created their own canon. 8)

Lol

Sent from my C6730 using Tapatalk

 

[FSSL]

Beautiful... Beautiful....

Now show me a doctrinal statement that mimics Paul's words. I've never seen one that included "Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners."

All you're doing is abusing the use of the Scriptures for your own profit. Nothing more.

Paul said it was a "faithful and trustworthy SAYING." What is so hard and difficult to understand that? He quoted poets and others and inscripturated the words.

I am taking him at his word. Why do you reject that?

 

[FSSL]

Since heresies include (twist) Scripture, doctrinal statements/creeds/confessions were used to combat those heresies.

No one ever elevates these to the level of Scripture. They just expound on what Scripture proclaims.

Those who say "No creed but Christ" and that "Doctrinal Statements add to Scripture" are quite mistaken and naive.

Look at our brother, Tim! Good thing his church produced a statement of their beliefs! It is right there in "black & white." THIS is a church with unsound doctrines. That church has gone beyond Scripture. Good thing they published their real belief system!

Tim now has a choice... continue in fellowship with erring brethren or look for a church that has a sound doctrinal statement, attend that church and find out if they really believe sound doctrine.

 

[FSSL]

If only that option were easier on the Children and the dear older saints that come to love on your family.

I get that...

 

[praise_yeshua]

Beautiful... Beautiful....

Now show me a doctrinal statement that mimics Paul's words. I've never seen one that included "Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners."

All you're doing is abusing the use of the Scriptures for your own profit. Nothing more.

Paul said it was a "faithful and trustworthy SAYING." What is so hard and difficult to understand that? He quoted poets and others and inscripturated the words.

I am taking him at his word. Why do you reject that?

I'm not going to let you take what Paul said and twist to your own carnal advantage. I trust what Paul used. What you use.... well.... that a different story.

I asked a simple question. Have you ever seen a doctrinal statement that incorporated the "faithful saying" Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners."

I haven't. If you had, there might be something to talk about. However, you can't just quote the fact that Paul said this and add ANYTHING... you consider to be a faithful saying.

What so difficult for you to understand about this?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Since heresies include (twist) Scripture, doctrinal statements/creeds/confessions were used to combat those heresies.

No one ever elevates these to the level of Scripture. They just expound on what Scripture proclaims.

Those who say "No creed but Christ" and that "Doctrinal Statements add to Scripture" are quite mistaken and naive.

Look at our brother, Tim! Good thing his church produced a statement of their beliefs! It is right there in "black & white." THIS is a church with unsound doctrines. That church has gone beyond Scripture. Good thing they published their real belief system!

Tim now has a choice... continue in fellowship with erring brethren or look for a church that has a sound doctrinal statement, attend that church and find out if they really believe sound doctrine.

He's known what they preach for a long time. If he can't get what they believe from what they preach then he doesn't need to be much of anything. You're being downright silly.

The "expounded" Scripture isn't the "Scripture". That is why we call it "commentary".

Its absolutely hilarious how you reject the faithful saying..... "No Creed but Christ".

You're such a comic.

 

[praise_yeshua]

... why do you need the doctrinal statement?

Accountability?

Accountability to the local assembly?

This is a new subject for me. But, couldn't the Church doctrinal statement be compared to the Declaration of Independence? A selection of agreed upon declarations written down and presented on behalf of a people? The fundamental ideas that form the American nation could be compared to the fundamentals of the faith set forth in a document; A document that refutes other common assumptions of the same passages of Biblical scriptures, protecting against the wolves out to hurt the flock, and further grounds to hold anyone set in the line of leadership accountable. But, also, those who join the Church accountable to a set forth declaration of beliefs for the simple sake of declaring oneself a Christian in a certain manner. Example: It could take months to glean from Sunday messages that a Church believes baptism is essential for salvation - but the doctrinal statement mentions this error in Biblical thinking allowing leaders and members the comfort that this is set forth, declared, and available to anyone interested in joining the family. But, if a person joins the body, starts to wiper in ears that baptism is essential, the document will make sure the Church doesn't change its standard set by the founders, and sometimes wiser. It allows one to point and say, "we are not such and such a Church" .... and yes, such a document should contain scripture to back up belief presented.

Tim.....

It doesn't take months to know a person is preaching baptismal regeneration. Its ridiculous to say that it does.

You have admitted that people.... within your own church.... don't actively practice the belief system detailed in the doctrinal statement of the church. Your church doctrinal statement is useless in such a case.

If you want to take the Declaration of Independence and transform it into a doctrinal statement... go for it. Its really not that detailed.

 

[FSSL]

Its absolutely hilarious how you reject the faithful saying..... "No Creed but Christ".
You're such a comic.

You obviously do not know your history. Harry E. Fosdick used the phrase to cover the fact that he denied the Infallibility of Scripture, Virgin Birth of Christ and so on and so forth.

It is a phrase that appeals to the ears and denies Christianity. It has become popular among the pious types who deny doctrine.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Its absolutely hilarious how you reject the faithful saying..... "No Creed but Christ".
You're such a comic.

You obviously do not know your history. Harry E. Fosdick used the phrase to cover the fact that he denied the Infallibility of Scripture, Virgin Birth of Christ and so on and so forth.

It is a phrase that appeals to the ears and denies Christianity. It has become popular among the pious types who deny doctrine.

Sure... I get you. Some people used the phrase incorrectly. Thus, we need to reject the phrase....

You're about as smart as they come. I should just give up now and admit my defeat. You have SO MANY "faithful sayings" that have never been abused by anyone....

You have got to stop and realize just how dumb you're being.

 

[Walt]

The subject of appointing a new deacon has come up at our Church. While it isn't confirmed, it might be that yours truly could be considered for the role of deacon.

I thought this could be a springboard for a thread regarding Deacons, their role, and specifically what the Bible says in 1 Timothy 3:1-7. How closely are Churches matching men to 1 Timothy? Should that man be 100% in agreement with the Churches printed doctrinal statement?

How would you respond to such a nomination?

Congratulations.

If a deacon is to be a servant of the church, one would expect him to agree with the doctrinal statement of the church.

 

[Walt]

How would you respond to such a nomination?

At my church, deacons must first be members. As such, they are in agreement with the doctrinal statement already.

I suppose that's technically true, but I don't know how many members are even aware of the doctrinal statement at some of the churches I've been in.

 

[Walt]

The subject of appointing a new deacon has come up at our Church. While it isn't confirmed, it might be that yours truly could be considered for the role of deacon.

I thought this could be a springboard for a thread regarding Deacons, their role, and specifically what the Bible says in 1 Timothy 3:1-7. How closely are Churches matching men to 1 Timothy? Should that man be 100% in agreement with the Churches printed doctrinal statement?

How would you respond to such a nomination?

Absolutely. "They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience...Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus."

Of course this assumes that the Doctrinal statement is sound.

In other words..... forget adhering to the principles of the Scriptures. You must focus on the churches "doctrinal statement"!

I don't understand why churches create such things. Just hold up your bible and say I believe the Scriptures.

C'mon -- churches do not all follow the Scriptures as you or I may think they should, so a doctrinal statement lets everyone know where they stand.

 

[Ransom]

Just hold up your bible and say I believe the Scriptures.

Sure! Just like the Campbellites!

"No creed but Christ" is of course itself a creed, making it self-stultifying.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Since heresies include (twist) Scripture, doctrinal statements/creeds/confessions were used to combat those heresies.

No one ever elevates these to the level of Scripture. They just expound on what Scripture proclaims.

Those who say "No creed but Christ" and that "Doctrinal Statements add to Scripture" are quite mistaken and naive.

Look at our brother, Tim! Good thing his church produced a statement of their beliefs! It is right there in "black & white." THIS is a church with unsound doctrines. That church has gone beyond Scripture. Good thing they published their real belief system!

Tim now has a choice... continue in fellowship with erring brethren or look for a church that has a sound doctrinal statement, attend that church and find out if they really believe sound doctrine.

He's known what they preach for a long time. If he can't get what they believe from what they preach then he doesn't need to be much of anything. You're being downright silly.

The "expounded" Scripture isn't the "Scripture". That is why we call it "commentary".

Its absolutely hilarious how you reject the faithful saying..... "No Creed but Christ".

You're such a comic.

Let me get this straight. You promote blindly attend a Church and waiting for the pastor to preach what they believe over a period of time? Then, after three or four months, when you learn they believe different you pick up and move to the next Church?

I reject the idea that it takes 3 or 4 months to find out what a pastor is preaching. Are you really saying this?

You have admitted that your church doctrinal statement isn't accurate. Why are you pretend your lying doctrinal statement tells the truth about what you congregation believes?

 

[praise_yeshua]

The subject of appointing a new deacon has come up at our Church. While it isn't confirmed, it might be that yours truly could be considered for the role of deacon.

I thought this could be a springboard for a thread regarding Deacons, their role, and specifically what the Bible says in 1 Timothy 3:1-7. How closely are Churches matching men to 1 Timothy? Should that man be 100% in agreement with the Churches printed doctrinal statement?

How would you respond to such a nomination?

Absolutely. "They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience...Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus."

Of course this assumes that the Doctrinal statement is sound.

In other words..... forget adhering to the principles of the Scriptures. You must focus on the churches "doctrinal statement"!

I don't understand why churches create such things. Just hold up your bible and say I believe the Scriptures.

C'mon -- churches do not all follow the Scriptures as you or I may think they should, so a doctrinal statement lets everyone know where they stand.

Funny Walt....

You said.... "but I don't know how many members are even aware of the doctrinal statement at some of the churches I've been in."


Do you even know how evidence works? You're being a double minded man. You pretend they matter and ignore the fact that you don't know many that care....

Geesh..........

 

[praise_yeshua]

The subject of appointing a new deacon has come up at our Church. While it isn't confirmed, it might be that yours truly could be considered for the role of deacon.

I thought this could be a springboard for a thread regarding Deacons, their role, and specifically what the Bible says in 1 Timothy 3:1-7. How closely are Churches matching men to 1 Timothy? Should that man be 100% in agreement with the Churches printed doctrinal statement?

How would you respond to such a nomination?

Congratulations.

If a deacon is to be a servant of the church, one would expect him to agree with the doctrinal statement of the church.

Thank you. Yes, I am becoming more and more aware of that fact. And also more self aware of how much I "turn my head" when it comes to some doctrinal details.

Your pastor doesn't agree with you doctrinal statement. By your own standard.....He should resign......

 

[praise_yeshua]

Just hold up your bible and say I believe the Scriptures.

Sure! Just like the Campbellites!

"No creed but Christ" is of course itself a creed, making it self-stultifying.

Funny. A creed that rejects creeds is still a creed.....

You can't win with you people!

I imagine if I were to say.... "I hate sin"...... I'm really committing sin because I mentioned "sin"