"Soul Winning" using the Hell vs Heaven tactic. What do you use to share faith?

[Tim]

So. Once again my pastor is changing his views on various subjects and brought in a "soul winning" expert to  teach our Church, or more appropriately, get the Church more burdened for souls. I appreciate the concern, but as I told my pastor last night, pointing to the sky, "HE WINS souls!"

Now. As I read more and more about my own salvation I see that it isn't just a ticket out of hell. It simply isn't. That is a part of my salvation, but to focus on that alone seems ...

Well. You tell me your thoughts?? Is it deceptive? False? Weak? The classic "if you were to die are you 100% certain you will go to heaven" seems to put a focus on something far removed from genuine salvation. Who wants to ho to hell?

I would rather share  that man is totally sinful and can't please God, and to please God and find peace with God you need Jesus. In a nutshell. But, the nutshell of "you are on your way to hell and if you want heaven please listen to this ..." seems to remove a proper focus on what God has done.

For one, this approach seems to remove any "repentance" from sin and a genuine look at who you are and who you will become in Christ. It seems to lack the motivation to at least show up at Church once you "accept Christ" ....

Am I right? Wrong?

 

[Twisted]

Not one example in the NT (Acts and beyond) where we see someone believe in Christ do we see them "repent of sins".

Not one example in the NT (Acts and beyond) where we see someone believe in Christ to "escape Hell".

Note:  "escaping Hell" is a by-product of salvation.  A pretty good by-product.  While no one "repents of sin", all repented.

 

[Tim]

Not one example in the NT (Acts and beyond) where we see someone believe in Christ do we see them "repent of sins".

Not one example in the NT (Acts and beyond) where we see someone believe in Christ to "escape Hell".

Note:  "escaping Hell" is a by-product of salvation.  A pretty good by-product.  While no one "repents of sin", all repented.

We cannot separate turning from sin in repentance and coming to Christ in faith. I should have been careful to not give the impression that saving repentance is that where we repent from individual sins ... but, that we turn from our sin nature and turn to Christ. Again. It isn't that we come to Christ as the savior from Hell, but the savior from sin. How could anyone stay pointed the wrong way when Jesus says come unto me unless they never came or are turning?

 

[subllibrm]

How about telling them that God wants to have a personal relationship with them. 

 

[Tim]

How about telling them that God wants to have a personal relationship with them. 

I like that too.

 

[cpizzle]

Peter's sermon and invitation at Pentecost was certainly about the penalty the people were under for crucifying Christ.  They cried out asking what must they do to avoid God's wrath.  Peter said to "Repent and be Baptized." 

Desiring a relationship with Christ is a Spiritual need.  The lost man doesn't desire to know God.  He is unmotivated to seek that which is above.  However, he knows that he wants to avoid Hell.  The Holy Spirit convicts of sin and reveals the truth of Salvation.  Christ died to save us from Hell.  This shows his true love for us.  Letting people know this a proper way to present the Gospel.  Doesn't the very word "salvation" imply we are being saved from Hell?

II Corinthians 5:11 - Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men

Jude 1:23 - And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire

 

[Tim]

Peter's sermon and invitation at Pentecost was certainly about the penalty the people were under for crucifying Christ.  They cried out asking what must they do to avoid God's wrath.  Peter said to "Repent and be Baptized." 

Desiring a relationship with Christ is a Spiritual need.  The lost man doesn't desire to know God.  He is unmotivated to seek that which is above.  However, he knows that he wants to avoid Hell.  The Holy Spirit convicts of sin and reveals the truth of Salvation.  Christ died to save us from Hell.  This shows his true love for us.  Letting people know this a proper way to present the Gospel.  Doesn't the very word "salvation" imply we are being saved from Hell?

II Corinthians 5:11 - Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men

Jude 1:23 - And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire

How can the lost man know anything? He is dead in his sin. You can put some fear into him and tell him that this nasty place called hell can be avoided by accepting Christ - yes YOU can do that. But, if this man is dead we should share the gospel and let the grace of God awake him. Only that grace can awaken a dead man. Not the fear of going to hell and the concept of a salvation from a God above to save you from hell. And that is what we should be careful of - allowing God to save with the truth, not man using fear.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

"I will put my law in their minds
    and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
    and they will be my people."

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

 

[subllibrm]

Separation from God due to our sinful state is the point. Are we saved from hell? Yes. More importantly IMO is that we are saved to  a relationship with our redeemer.

"Abide in me and I will abide in you"  is so  much more than a ticket out of hell.

 

[HeDied4U]

Separation from God due to our sinful state is the point. Are we saved from hell? Yes. More importantly IMO is that we are saved to  a relationship with our redeemer.

"Abide in me and I will abide in you"  is so  much more than a ticket out of hell.

Amen!!

 

[Tim]

Separation from God due to our sinful state is the point. Are we saved from hell? Yes. More importantly IMO is that we are saved to  a relationship with our redeemer.

"Abide in me and I will abide in you"  is so  much more than a ticket out of hell.

Amen!

 

[Bob H]

It would be MHO that more folks are/have been saved by preaching on hell than on heaven. But what do I know? What does Jonathon Edwards know?

 

[Bob H]

How about telling them that God wants to have a personal relationship with them. 

.....or "why don't you ask Jesus into your heart"

 

[subllibrm]

How about telling them that God wants to have a personal relationship with them. 

.....or "why don't you ask Jesus into your heart"

The narrative is much longer/deeper than that.

 

[Bob H]

How about telling them that God wants to have a personal relationship with them. 

.....or "why don't you ask Jesus into your heart"

The narrative is much longer/deeper than that.

Mine was deeper than yours

 

[Walt]

So. Once again my pastor is changing his views on various subjects and brought in a "soul winning" expert to  teach our Church, or more appropriately, get the Church more burdened for souls. I appreciate the concern, but as I told my pastor last night, pointing to the sky, "HE WINS souls!"

Now. As I read more and more about my own salvation I see that it isn't just a ticket out of hell. It simply isn't. That is a part of my salvation, but to focus on that alone seems ...

Well. You tell me your thoughts?? Is it deceptive? False? Weak? The classic "if you were to die are you 100% certain you will go to heaven" seems to put a focus on something far removed from genuine salvation. Who wants to ho to hell?

I would rather share  that man is totally sinful and can't please God, and to please God and find peace with God you need Jesus. In a nutshell. But, the nutshell of "you are on your way to hell and if you want heaven please listen to this ..." seems to remove a proper focus on what God has done.

For one, this approach seems to remove any "repentance" from sin and a genuine look at who you are and who you will become in Christ. It seems to lack the motivation to at least show up at Church once you "accept Christ" ....

Am I right? Wrong?

I believe that you are on the right track.  I've thought about this a lot... I think one of the reason we are seeing powerless churches these days is that so many fell on the John Rice-Curtis Hutson-Jack Hyles "soul-winning is everything" -- this led to unhealthy and un-Biblical focus on numbers and competition ("we're more spiritual/worth more to God because we have won more souls).  In fact, they were NOT "winning souls", but getting lost people to say a prayer, and then telling them that they are now saved.  If they were kids, they grew up in church, hit the teenage  years, and either (a) dropped out, or (b) decided that they must be saved, even though they seldom had the joy and other fruit that genuine Christians had.  Some of the (b) cases make professions again and again... some, no doubt, are genuinely saved.  But lost teens grow up, and people falsely "saved" as adults hang around the church and move into leadership roles without being born again - they don't have the indwelling Holy Spirit, and they cannot "grow" in Christ because they were never born into God's family.  They have no spiritual discernment and when their "leader" leaves the church, they pick a bad next pastor, and the church goes downhill.

The focus on numbers and attributed worth to people for the number of people they have talked into saying a prayer must stop!  God has always been against numbering people; He can keep the records better than we can.

Turning the "soul-winning" group into a "heaven salesmanship" group is a bad idea, but so many churches do this.

The gospel presentation never focused on the sinner's selfishness: Here! Do you want to go to heaven? Say this prayer!  The gospel presentations ALWAYS started with God's utter holiness and the sinfulness of man.

When I think of repentance, I think of a person deciding "I don't want to be like this anymore" - someone who merely wishes to escape hell has NOT repented; he just wants fire insurance.  It is the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin, the Scriptures tell us.

Well, there's my rant on the subject.

 

[Biblebeliever]

Good post brother Tim. I believe soul winners do a disservice when they do not include Repentance in their Gospel presentation. Indeed, a lot of the evangelism that takes place today, (especially door to door) goes something like this: "if you were to die tonight do you know whether or not heaven will be your eternal home?" Now in and of itself that approach may work somewhat, because at least it gets the sinner thinking about heaven and God. But when one studies the old and new Testament, they will not find anywhere in either Testaments, within any dispensation, someone asking a sinner the above question. You cannot find Jesus, Paul or Peter ever asking a sinner that "if they were to die Today, do they know if they would be in heaven?"

And I believe that is mainly because heaven is not the primary focus of the Gospel. But rather, it is that Christ died for our sins, that He became sin for us, that he was buried and resurrected. And that through Him, we can be saved from our sins.

Being saved from Hell is a by product of us being saved first from our sins.

Hence, to omit Repentance of sin in soul winning is dangerous because it can lead to false converts. Salvation is not only to be saved from the penalty of sin, but also to be saved from the pleasure of sin, the power of sin, and one day from the presence of sin.

Therefore a more Biblical question to ask a person in soul winning would be "if you were to die Today, do you know whether or not your sins have been forgiven?"

 

[Bruh]

I was able to give the gospel to someone this week.

I told this person that if they do not see themselves as deserving to go to hell, then they are not ready for salvation.

I also told them that many people come to church for the first time maybe in many many years and they see all these people and it looks like they have life together and they say to themselves, I want this.

I told them the problem is, many people want their lives and problems fixed but do not want God or to have God rule and reign over every area of their lives, they just want their lives put back together.

I told this person, yes faith but also a hearts desire to follow Jesus in every area of their life with no exceptions.

If I remember correctly, I never mentioned heaven.

 

[Twisted]

I was able to give the gospel to someone this week.

I told this person that if they do not see themselves as deserving to go to hell, then they are not ready for salvation.

I also told them that many people come to church for the first time maybe in many many years and they see all these people and it looks like they have life together and they say to themselves, I want this.

I told them the problem is, many people want their lives and problems fixed but do not want God or to have God rule and reign over every area of their lives, they just want their lives put back together.

I told this person, yes faith but also a hearts desire to follow Jesus in every area of their life with no exceptions.

If I remember correctly, I never mentioned heaven.

Did you end the conversation with, "Smile, God loves you!"?

 

[Bruh]

I was able to give the gospel to someone this week.

I told this person that if they do not see themselves as deserving to go to hell, then they are not ready for salvation.

I also told them that many people come to church for the first time maybe in many many years and they see all these people and it looks like they have life together and they say to themselves, I want this.

I told them the problem is, many people want their lives and problems fixed but do not want God or to have God rule and reign over every area of their lives, they just want their lives put back together.

I told this person, yes faith but also a hearts desire to follow Jesus in every area of their life with no exceptions.

If I remember correctly, I never mentioned heaven.

Did you end the conversation with, "Smile, God loves you!"?

Of course, I explained why Jesus died on the cross and rose from from the dead as the final sacrifice for our sin.

 

[prophet]

So. Once again my pastor is changing his views on various subjects and brought in a "soul winning" expert to  teach our Church, or more appropriately, get the Church more burdened for souls. I appreciate the concern, but as I told my pastor last night, pointing to the sky, "HE WINS souls!"

Now. As I read more and more about my own salvation I see that it isn't just a ticket out of hell. It simply isn't. That is a part of my salvation, but to focus on that alone seems ...

Well. You tell me your thoughts?? Is it deceptive? False? Weak? The classic "if you were to die are you 100% certain you will go to heaven" seems to put a focus on something far removed from genuine salvation. Who wants to ho to hell?

I would rather share  that man is totally sinful and can't please God, and to please God and find peace with God you need Jesus. In a nutshell. But, the nutshell of "you are on your way to hell and if you want heaven please listen to this ..." seems to remove a proper focus on what God has done.

For one, this approach seems to remove any "repentance" from sin and a genuine look at who you are and who you will become in Christ. It seems to lack the motivation to at least show up at Church once you "accept Christ" ....

Am I right? Wrong?

I believe that you are on the right track.  I've thought about this a lot... I think one of the reason we are seeing powerless churches these days is that so many fell on the John Rice-Curtis Hutson-Jack Hyles "soul-winning is everything" -- this led to unhealthy and un-Biblical focus on numbers and competition ("we're more spiritual/worth more to God because we have won more souls).  In fact, they were NOT "winning souls", but getting lost people to say a prayer, and then telling them that they are now saved.  If they were kids, they grew up in church, hit the teenage  years, and either (a) dropped out, or (b) decided that they must be saved, even though they seldom had the joy and other fruit that genuine Christians had.  Some of the (b) cases make professions again and again... some, no doubt, are genuinely saved.  But lost teens grow up, and people falsely "saved" as adults hang around the church and move into leadership roles without being born again - they don't have the indwelling Holy Spirit, and they cannot "grow" in Christ because they were never born into God's family.  They have no spiritual discernment and when their "leader" leaves the church, they pick a bad next pastor, and the church goes downhill.

The focus on numbers and attributed worth to people for the number of people they have talked into saying a prayer must stop!  God has always been against numbering people; He can keep the records better than we can.

Turning the "soul-winning" group into a "heaven salesmanship" group is a bad idea, but so many churches do this.

The gospel presentation never focused on the sinner's selfishness: Here! Do you want to go to heaven? Say this prayer!  The gospel presentations ALWAYS started with God's utter holiness and the sinfulness of man.

When I think of repentance, I think of a person deciding "I don't want to be like this anymore" - someone who merely wishes to escape hell has NOT repented; he just wants fire insurance.  It is the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin, the Scriptures tell us.

Well, there's my rant on the subject.

No, the Scriptures do not tell us that The Holy Spirit convicts the lost of Sin.

It tells us that our own conscience convicts us.

earnestly contend