"Soul Winning" using the Hell vs Heaven tactic. What do you use to share faith?

[prophet]

The passage says He will reprove/convict the world of sin... it doesn't say anything else

Is this taught at Hyles?


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No, this wasn't taught at HAC.



earnestly contend

 

[FSSL]

For your interpretation to work, you redefine "He" as disciples, church and believers

Why not just go back to the previous verse and note that Jesus was predicting the Comforter. It is HE that will come into the world to reprove.

I have never heard your interpretation of this verse before, anywhere. Where did you get it?

 

[ALAYMAN]

I have never heard your interpretation of this verse before, anywhere. Where did you get it?

Not from the Bible.  prophet has misguidely been banging this drum on the forum for years.  The plain teaching of Scripture, and centuries of evangelical thought is like that which follows....

"He will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment!" John 16:8

1. Conviction of sin, by the Holy Spirit, issuing in conversion?is not the mere smiting of the natural conscience. Although man is utterly fallen?yet God has left natural conscience behind in every heart to speak for Him. Some men, by continual sinning, sear  even the conscience as with a hot iron, so that it becomes past feeling; but most men have so much natural conscience remaining that they cannot commit heinous sin, without their conscience smiting them. When a man commits murder or theft, no eye may have seen him, and yet conscience makes a coward of him. He trembles, fearing that God will take vengeance. Now that is a  natural work which takes place in every heart?but conviction of sin is a supernatural work of the Spirit of God. If you have had nothing more than the ordinary smiting of conscience?then you have never been truly convicted of sin.

2. Conviction of sin, by the Holy Spirit, issuing in conversion?is not any impression upon the imagination. Sometimes, when men have committed great sin, they have awful impressions of God's vengeance made upon their imaginations. In the night-time, they almost imagine that they see the flames of Hell burning beneath them; or they seem to hear doleful cries in their ears telling of coming woe; or they have terrible dreams, when they sleep, of coming vengeance. Now this is not the conviction of sin which the Spirit gives: it is altogether a natural work upon the natural faculties.

3. Conviction of sin, by the Holy Spirit, issuing in conversion?is not a mere head knowledge of what the Bible says against sin. Many unconverted men read their Bibles, and have a clear knowledge that their case is laid down there. They know very well that they are in sin, and they know just as well that the wages of sin is death. One man lives a swearer, and he reads the words, and understands them perfectly: "The Lord will not hold him guiltless?who takes his name in vain" (Exodus 20:7; Deu 5:11). Another man lives in the lusts of the flesh, and he reads the Bible and understands those words perfectly: "No immoral person has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God" (Ephesians 5:5). Another man lives in habitual forgetfulness of God?never thinks of Him, and yet he reads: "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God" (Psalm 9:17). Now in this way, most men have a head knowledge of their sin and of its wages?yet this is far from true conviction of sin.

What?then, is this conviction of sin?

It is to feel the loathsomeness of sin. A child of God has seen the beauty and excellency of God; and therefore, sin is loathsome in his eyes. But no unconverted person has seen the beauty and excellency of God; and therefore, sin cannot appear dark and loathsome in his eyes.

It is a just sense of the dreadfulness of sin. It is not mere knowledge that we have many sins and that God's anger is revealed against them all; but it is a heart-feeling that we are under sin. It is a sense of the dishonor it does to God, and of the wrath to which it exposes the soul.

Conviction of sin is no slight natural work upon the heart. It is all in vain that you read your Bibles and hear us preach, unless the Spirit uses the words to give feeling to your dead hearts. If we could prove to you with the plainness of arithmetic, that the wrath of God is abiding on you?still, you would sit unmoved. The Spirit alone can impress your heart.

Robert Murray M'Cheyne (1813-1843)

 

[Walt]

<snip>
The gospel presentation never focused on the sinner's selfishness: Here! Do you want to go to heaven? Say this prayer!  The gospel presentations ALWAYS started with God's utter holiness and the sinfulness of man.
<snip>

Good stuff.

I have just gotten around to reading the rest of this thread. Walt, do you mind if I borrow (steal) this?

Not at all...  Not sure how "original" it is, as I've heard far better men than I make statements along the lines that led me to say this.

 

[prophet]

For your interpretation to work, you redefine "He" as disciples, church and believers

Why not just go back to the previous verse and note that Jesus was predicting the Comforter. It is HE that will come into the world to reprove.

I have never heard your interpretation of this verse before, anywhere. Where did you get it?

I stated the opposite many times.
Please actually read the posts if you want to discuss this.

"He" is the Comforter.

Where He is coming?...into all who believe.

Jesus used the future tense here, right?

Well, then, what pray tell me was still in the future?
The Spirit's interaction with unregenerate Man?
Nope.
That was taking place already, to whatever scale you believe (for another discussion [emoji2] ).
The future event which Christ was referencing here, was Pentecost and beyond, I think we all agree, no?

If so, the change in the work of the Holy Spirit is obvious....

Act 2:16 ? Act 2:21
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.



earnestly contend

 

[prophet]

I have never heard your interpretation of this verse before, anywhere. Where did you get it?

"Nu uh, cuz some udder guy says so!!!"

earnestly contend

 

[ALAYMAN]

"Nu uh, cuz some udder guy says so!!!"

earnestly contend

I'm not relying on "some udder guy" for my interpretation, but rather stating that you are a Johnny-come-lately with your interpretation.  If it took 2000 years for somebody to come along and find a new interpretation, ya might want to re-think your hermeneutic.

 

[prophet]

I have never heard your interpretation of this verse before, anywhere. Where did you get it?

Oh, yeah, i forgot the importance of the 1700 years of trash from the RCC.
Good thing they never tried to erradicate opposing viewpoints.

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[FSSL]

"He" is the Comforter. Where He is coming?...into all who believe.

I have read your posts. They are convoluted. I cannot understand the logic and your twist of this Scripture.
Those who maintain a private interpretation of Scripture like to squirm in and out of their words.

 

[ALAYMAN]

]
Oh, yeah, i forgot the importance of the 1700 years of trash from the RCC.
Good thing they never tried to erradicate opposing viewpoints.

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non-sequitur, I'm not a Roman Catholic, nor am I coercing anybody to believe anything.  Implying that the teaching of the Holy Spirit's conviction of men for sin is Roman Catholic doctrine, well, that's just nuts.

 

[prophet]

"He" is the Comforter. Where He is coming?...into all who believe.

I have read your posts. They are convoluted. I cannot understand the logic and your twist of this Scripture.
Those who maintain a private interpretation of Scripture like to squirm in and out of their words.

"They are convoluted" =
"I didnt hear them before."

Nice cop out.

Why don't you try answering the points i made, instead of attempting to jump on a negative peer pressure bandwagon?

Was Jesus referring to the future or not, when He said:

Jn 16:7 ? Jn 16:11
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
?

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[prophet]

"He" is the Comforter. Where He is coming?...into all who believe.

I have read your posts. They are convoluted. I cannot understand the logic and your twist of this Scripture.
Those who maintain a private interpretation of Scripture like to squirm in and out of their words.

If you had read my posts, you would know that i never said "he" referred to believers.

So you are lying, have reading comprehension problems, or (more probably) dont like the problems with some previous conclusion which you have drawn, that this now presents.

I'm here, and sincere, and willing to clarify anything, should you choose to discuss it.



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[prophet]

Nice try to leave the Holy Spirit out of His obvious work. Whether the word is  "rebuke/reprove" or "convict," the Holy Spirit actively works on the unbeliever to convince them that sin is wrong.

Unbelievers do not develop conviction of sin from within themselves without the work of the Holy Spirit. They are dead.


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What do you mean, nice try?

Have you not read?:

John 8:9
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.



earnestly contend

I noticed that you might have skipped this, so i bumped it.

It was a direct response.

Do you deny that these were unbelievers, yet convicted from within, by their own conscience?
Do you deny that man has a conscience?
Do you deny that the descendants of Adam and Eve know good and evil?

Do you deny that man, made in the image of God, possesses a measure of faith?  A desire to be like God?  A desire to know God?
(Yes clouded by the darkness that is spiritual death, but yet there nevertheless?)

"He" is the Comforter. Where He is coming?...into all who believe.

I have read your posts. They are convoluted. I cannot understand the logic and your twist of this Scripture.
Those who maintain a private interpretation of Scripture like to squirm in and out of their words.

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

 

[prophet]

]
Oh, yeah, i forgot the importance of the 1700 years of trash from the RCC.
Good thing they never tried to erradicate opposing viewpoints.

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

non-sequitur, I'm not a Roman Catholic, nor am I coercing anybody to believe anything.  Implying that the teaching of the Holy Spirit's conviction of men for sin is Roman Catholic doctrine, well, that's just nuts.

You said 2000 years, as if the most recent 1700 of those weren't plagued with an attempt, by Rome,  to silence all opposing voices.
No books were burned, or confiscated by Rome?
No extant accepted doctrine was persecuted as heresy, until no one left alive would utter it aloud?



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[bgwilkinson]

Nice try to leave the Holy Spirit out of His obvious work. Whether the word is  "rebuke/reprove" or "convict," the Holy Spirit actively works on the unbeliever to convince them that sin is wrong.

Unbelievers do not develop conviction of sin from within themselves without the work of the Holy Spirit. They are dead.


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Here is a helpful sermon by Spurgeon "Free Will -- A Slave"
https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/sermons/0052.cfm

 

[FSSL]

You said 2000 years, as if the most recent 1700 of those weren't plagued with an attempt, by Rome,  to silence all opposing voices.
No books were burned, or confiscated by Rome?
No extant accepted doctrine was persecuted as heresy, until no one left alive would utter it aloud?

A new, false doctrine invented by someone in 2016 is no better than a false doctrine that has existed since 300ad.

 

[prophet]

You said 2000 years, as if the most recent 1700 of those weren't plagued with an attempt, by Rome,  to silence all opposing voices.
No books were burned, or confiscated by Rome?
No extant accepted doctrine was persecuted as heresy, until no one left alive would utter it aloud?

A new, false doctrine invented by someone in 2016 is no better than a false doctrine that has existed since 300ad.

Lol @ "new doctrine".

What is "new"?

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[prophet]

Nice try to leave the Holy Spirit out of His obvious work. Whether the word is  "rebuke/reprove" or "convict," the Holy Spirit actively works on the unbeliever to convince them that sin is wrong.

Unbelievers do not develop conviction of sin from within themselves without the work of the Holy Spirit. They are dead.


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Here is a helpful sermon by Spurgeon "Free Will -- A Slave"
https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/sermons/0052.cfm

Headline :
Delivered on Sabbath morning...
No need to keep reading.

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[Tarheel Baptist]

Nice try to leave the Holy Spirit out of His obvious work. Whether the word is  "rebuke/reprove" or "convict," the Holy Spirit actively works on the unbeliever to convince them that sin is wrong.

Unbelievers do not develop conviction of sin from within themselves without the work of the Holy Spirit. They are dead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here is a helpful sermon by Spurgeon "Free Will -- A Slave"
https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/sermons/0052.cfm

Headline :
Delivered on Sabbath morning...
No need to keep reading.

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

Poor Spurgeon.
He's lucky you weren't in his generation to expose his false teaching!

 

[prophet]

Nice try to leave the Holy Spirit out of His obvious work. Whether the word is  "rebuke/reprove" or "convict," the Holy Spirit actively works on the unbeliever to convince them that sin is wrong.

Unbelievers do not develop conviction of sin from within themselves without the work of the Holy Spirit. They are dead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here is a helpful sermon by Spurgeon "Free Will -- A Slave"
https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/sermons/0052.cfm

Headline :
Delivered on Sabbath morning...
No need to keep reading.

Sent from my LGL43AL using Tapatalk

Poor Spurgeon.
He's lucky you weren't in his generation to expose his false teaching!

So you agree with him, that Sunday is now the Sabbath?

earnestly contend