Standards of dress

RAIDER said:
I think a lady has to be especially careful.  Clothing that is too tight, see through, or revealing should be avoided.  I cannot buy into the "if it is appropriate for the activity it is ok" thought pattern.  Immodest is immodest.  Ladies, I'm sorry, but I also cannot buy into the "If I wear something tight or revealing and a guy lusts after me it is all his problem".

Thoughts and criticisms??  :)

Seeing we live in a dark and sinful world, I guess you must either become a Tibetan Monk so you don't see all the immodesty that is in the world or you fix your heart that when you see a women immodestly dressed you do not lust after her.

Because wherever you go there will be immodestly dressed women.   
 
Mathew Ward said:
RAIDER said:
I think a lady has to be especially careful.  Clothing that is too tight, see through, or revealing should be avoided.  I cannot buy into the "if it is appropriate for the activity it is ok" thought pattern.  Immodest is immodest.  Ladies, I'm sorry, but I also cannot buy into the "If I wear something tight or revealing and a guy lusts after me it is all his problem".

Thoughts and criticisms??  :)

Seeing we live in a dark and sinful world, I guess you must either become a Tibetan Monk so you don't see all the immodesty that is in the world or you fix your heart that when you see a women immodestly dressed you do not lust after her.

Because wherever you go there will be immodestly dressed women. 

So what dress standards should a Christian woman have?
 
RAIDER said:
Mathew Ward said:
RAIDER said:
I think a lady has to be especially careful.  Clothing that is too tight, see through, or revealing should be avoided.  I cannot buy into the "if it is appropriate for the activity it is ok" thought pattern.  Immodest is immodest.  Ladies, I'm sorry, but I also cannot buy into the "If I wear something tight or revealing and a guy lusts after me it is all his problem".

Thoughts and criticisms??  :)

Seeing we live in a dark and sinful world, I guess you must either become a Tibetan Monk so you don't see all the immodesty that is in the world or you fix your heart that when you see a women immodestly dressed you do not lust after her.

Because wherever you go there will be immodestly dressed women. 

So what dress standards should a Christian woman have?

She should dress modestly or appropriate for the occasion.

We came from a church that thought FBC and HAC standards were liberal. When my wife started having thoughts about if she could wear pants and not be sinning she came to me and asked me what she should wear. I wouldn't give her a list but told her she needed to go to the Bible and figure out what modesty was. She did and came to her own conclusions.

She wears skirts, not the t-length ones but those that come to the knee and some above the knee. She wears pants. She wears shorts to the gym. She wears blouses, t-shirts, sweaters among other tops.


Matthew 15:1-20  Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
 
Mathew Ward said:
RAIDER said:
So what dress standards should a Christian woman have?

She should dress modestly or appropriate for the occasion.

Thank you.  So tight, short shorts would be ok for volleyball, yet not for walking down the street?
 
Mathew Ward said:
She should dress modestly or appropriate for the occasion.
I agree with Raider on this point. Appropriate for the occasion is not always modest. A bikini at the beach is appropriate for the occasion but it is certainly not modest, by even the most liberal thinkers (if they're honest).  8)
 
There has been an awful lot of conversation about the relevancy of culture affecting the way woman dress.
My question is: "What brought our culture to the point it is today where women dress like they do?" 
It didn't just happen on a whim.
There were certain 'revolutions' which catalyst to the styles of today.
They began somewhere with a certain ideas which became widespread over the last 90 or so years.
 
16KJV11 said:
There has been an awful lot of conversation about the relevancy of culture affecting the way woman dress.
My question is: "What brought our culture to the point it is today where women dress like they do?" 
It didn't just happen on a whim.
There were certain 'revolutions' which catalyst to the styles of today.
They began somewhere with a certain ideas which became widespread over the last 90 or so years.

I believe human nature will naturally push to the edge. 
 
RAIDER said:
Mathew Ward said:
RAIDER said:
So what dress standards should a Christian woman have?

She should dress modestly or appropriate for the occasion.

Thank you.  So tight, short shorts would be ok for volleyball, yet not for walking down the street?

If a Christian girl wants to wear tight short shorts while walking down the street I'm sure the Pharisees will line up in droves to address the issue and force her to wear their approved clothing. Let's be honest the majority of these type of folks could care less about the girl or her relationship with God, they just care that she looks Christian as they see it.

Remember it is a matter of the heart. Jack Schaap had premeditated sex with an underage girl because of his heart not her immodest clothing. Dave Hyles had sex with all those women (some who even dressed fundamental) because of his heart. If a girl dresses imodestly I'll let God deal with her heart as I look to deal with my own heart.

But how Christian women dress doesn't enter into my mind. I thought I was suppose to treat them like sisters and mothers and have deep love for them, not look upon them as sex objects because they show cleavage or have tight short shorts on.

 
Why modesty is a matter of culture:

In the United States, a nip slip is a huge deal. It costs networks millions of dollars, teenage boys strain their eyes looking for them, and church people absolutely freak out. Across the pond, a boob is a boob. No one cares. There is nothing titillating about it. Ergo...whether a woman is even required to wear a top or not to be modest is culturally driven, to say nothing of tanks, halters, or anything else.

So how about this:

Teach on modesty as a principle that crosses cultural boundaries, not as a set of rules (because I can guarantee you'll never have enough rules for every situation).
Let parents with non-adult girls tell their own daughters to wear.
Those with daughters, reinforce those principles and provide real-world examples/boundaries based on your own family's practices.
If they aren't your daughters, keep your nose in your own business.
Train your own eyes to not look at girls like meat.
Teach your boys (adult and non-adult age) to do the same.
 
Misinterpret the passage that tells us that godly women should be clothed in good works.
Redefine "modest", to mean anything other than "inexpensive, not extravagant".
Then, spend the rest of your life arguing opinions with people, over the fictitious gray area that has been created.
 
Mathew Ward said:
But how Christian women dress doesn't enter into my mind. I thought I was suppose to treat them like sisters and mothers and have deep love for them, not look upon them as sex objects because they show cleavage or have tight short shorts on.

EXACTLY!
 
prophet said:
Misinterpret the passage that tells us that godly women should be clothed in good works.
Redefine "modest", to mean anything other than "inexpensive, not extravagant".
Then, spend the rest of your life arguing opinions with people, over the fictitious gray area that has been created.

Apparently there is significant gray area between the ankle and knee. The black doesn't start until the thigh comes into view.  8)
 
RAIDER said:
Bruh said:
RAIDER said:
I think a lady has to be especially careful.  Clothing that is too tight, see through, or revealing should be avoided.  I cannot buy into the "if it is appropriate for the activity it is ok" thought pattern.  Immodest is immodest.  Ladies, I'm sorry, but I also cannot buy into the "If I wear something tight or revealing and a guy lusts after me it is all his problem".

Thoughts and criticisms??  :)

I agree with all of this.

I knew you and I would eventually agree on something.  :)

From what I can tell the only place we disagree on this subject is that I believe a women can be modest when she wears pants and you don't.

Other ten that I think we are close over al.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Mathew Ward said:
But how Christian women dress doesn't enter into my mind. I thought I was suppose to treat them like sisters and mothers and have deep love for them, not look upon them as sex objects because they show cleavage or have tight short shorts on.

EXACTLY!

You both are correct but I think blood line may be where the flesh draws the line. LOL!!  Just sayn.
 
Mathew Ward said:
RAIDER said:
Mathew Ward said:
RAIDER said:
So what dress standards should a Christian woman have?

She should dress modestly or appropriate for the occasion.

Thank you.  So tight, short shorts would be ok for volleyball, yet not for walking down the street?

If a Christian girl wants to wear tight short shorts while walking down the street I'm sure the Pharisees will line up in droves to address the issue and force her to wear their approved clothing. Let's be honest the majority of these type of folks could care less about the girl or her relationship with God, they just care that she looks Christian as they see it.

Remember it is a matter of the heart. Jack Schaap had premeditated sex with an underage girl because of his heart not her immodest clothing. Dave Hyles had sex with all those women (some who even dressed fundamental) because of his heart. If a girl dresses imodestly I'll let God deal with her heart as I look to deal with my own heart.

But how Christian women dress doesn't enter into my mind. I thought I was suppose to treat them like sisters and mothers and have deep love for them, not look upon them as sex objects because they show cleavage or have tight short shorts on.

So God is only pleased with the heart and does not care about how we clothe our bodies?
 
rsc2a said:
Train your own eyes to not look at girls like meat.
Teach your boys (adult and non-adult age) to do the same.

I agree with you statements above.  Unfortunately every man and boy are not Godly.  While we can make the argument, "A wicked man is going to lust after a gal no matter how she is dressed" are Christian ladies suppose to dress in a way that makes this temptation much easier?
 
RAIDER said:
Mathew Ward said:
RAIDER said:
Mathew Ward said:
RAIDER said:
So what dress standards should a Christian woman have?

She should dress modestly or appropriate for the occasion.

Thank you.  So tight, short shorts would be ok for volleyball, yet not for walking down the street?

If a Christian girl wants to wear tight short shorts while walking down the street I'm sure the Pharisees will line up in droves to address the issue and force her to wear their approved clothing. Let's be honest the majority of these type of folks could care less about the girl or her relationship with God, they just care that she looks Christian as they see it.

Remember it is a matter of the heart. Jack Schaap had premeditated sex with an underage girl because of his heart not her immodest clothing. Dave Hyles had sex with all those women (some who even dressed fundamental) because of his heart. If a girl dresses imodestly I'll let God deal with her heart as I look to deal with my own heart.

But how Christian women dress doesn't enter into my mind. I thought I was suppose to treat them like sisters and mothers and have deep love for them, not look upon them as sex objects because they show cleavage or have tight short shorts on.

So God is only pleased with the heart and does not care about how we clothe our bodies?

I think the NT talks about folks that make the outside nice while ignoring the inside, I'm not saying that is what you are doing.

I think if we concentrate on the inside the outside will take care of itself.


I think we can differ and it not be a problem. I also think that there is much division over this because folks make it an issue.
 
Mathew Ward said:
I think the NT talks about folks that make the outside nice while ignoring the inside, I'm not saying that is what you are doing.

I think if we concentrate on the inside the outside will take care of itself.


I think we can differ and it not be a problem. I also think that there is much division over this because folks make it an issue.

I definitely agree with your first two sentences.  Unfortunately many posters on the HAC FFF have been around people who seemingly have the outside cleaned up, but are unGodly on the inside.  Because of this they immediately go on the defensive when discussing dress standards.  For the sake of discussion I am taking it for granite that the gal is Christlike on the inside.

You are correct when you say there is much division over this.  I don't think it is making an issue out of nothing when it comes to purity of dress and thought.  I think it is a huge issue.  I think God wants us to represent Him on the inside and outside, not one OR the other.  I don't think our Christian liberty gives us a reason to dress as we like.

Standards are a non-issue when you realize Who you are separating unto, rather than what you're separating from.   
 
RAIDER said:
I think God wants us to represent Him on the inside and outside, not one OR the other. 

This is where you and I disagree. I believe that God doesn't want us to represent Him but rather He wants to represent through us, and I believe that is done through our actions of love, specifically to the marginalized in society.

RAIDER said:
Standards are a non-issue when you realize Who you are separating unto, rather than what you're separating from. 

So we need to be dressed a certain way in an effort to be separated to? Is there ANY biblical example of this? If anything, the prophets up through John clearly indicate by their actions that improper dress wasn't a sign of any kind of closeness TO God.
 
RAIDER said:
rsc2a said:
Train your own eyes to not look at girls like meat.
Teach your boys (adult and non-adult age) to do the same.

I agree with you statements above.  Unfortunately every man and boy are not Godly.  While we can make the argument, "A wicked man is going to lust after a gal no matter how she is dressed" are Christian ladies suppose to dress in a way that makes this temptation much easier?
 
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