Steve Pettit: Should He Stay Or Should He Go?

[Ransom]

Before the throne of God above
I have a strong and perfect plea

Has someone actually complained about this one? The tune may be new (1997), but the words are an Irish hymn written by Charitie Bancroft in 1860.

 

[AverageJoe]

Well, as David Cloud says, they're "out-and-out contemporary rockers with no boundaries." All that Irish-styled hymnody is just an illusion. Really they're more like Black Sabbath than Clannad.

David Cloud is nothing more than a dissatisfied hack! He likes to witch and moan about anything and everything, and he won't check his freakin' sources, or correctly quote them. When he's called on this tripe he gets overly offensive and attacks the person questioning him instead of pointing out why he's correct. I take EVERYTHING he says with a huge grain of salt and a little bit of sugar.

 

[illinoisguy]

The big vote on Pettit's contract by the BJU board is November 17, and long-time BJU critic Lou Martuneac can't wait. He is gushing with anticipation about the prospect that this will be the end of BJU.

In Defense of the Gospel

A site originally devoted to a discussion of the <i><b><a href="http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2008/07/summary-of-lordship-salvation-on-single.html">Lordship Salvation</a></b></i> interpretation of the Gospel.<br> Other doctrinal and practical concerns are also featured. Please visit...

indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com

"While we wait, let's talk about it."

"If necessary, I would rather see the school close gracefully than to see an extremely ugly conflict blot the name of Christ. The spiritual failure I've been concerned about in recent years is that of the faculty and administration who might take the school seriously leftward. Now I am contemplating the possibility of spiritual failure by the whole constituency, or some significant faction(s) of it, whose conduct could perhaps prove highly unbecoming of the gospel."

Martuneac is griping about the infamous BJU fashion show, even though Pettit condemned it. He is complaining about a BJU production of Shakespeare's "Midsummer Night's Dream" but I can't figure out what is his beef about that. He is miffed about the IFCA meddling in BJU affairs by defending Pettit, but of course it's okay for Martuneac to meddle.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Is there an actual chance they’re going to shut the school down? They have a lot of property, decent enrollment and a large endowment. They’d actually lock the doors over these petty issues?

 

[AverageJoe]

Is there an actual chance they’re going to shut the school down? They have a lot of property, decent enrollment and a large endowment. They’d actually lock the doors over these petty issues?

From what I hear, there is little chance the school will close. I know far too many alumni who state that this is not likely.

 

[Ransom]

The big vote on Pettit's contract by the BJU board is November 17, and long-time BJU critic Lou Martuneac can't wait. He is gushing with anticipation about the prospect that this will be the end of BJU.

Not surprised. Some may remember that Martuneac was a regular on the previous incarnation of the FFF. He was easily scandalized then, and he's easily scandalized now.

He is complaining about a BJU production of Shakespeare's "Midsummer Night's Dream" but I can't figure out what is his beef about that.

Magic, probably. Or men and women running around in the woods after dark, unchaperoned.

 

[illinoisguy]

For those who missed the frenzy and the fracas over the BJU fashion show, that scandalized and traumatized Lou Martuneac, here is what you missed:

The wrap coat representing Jesus.

‘He looked like a gay man’​

Bob Jones University Fashion Design hosted by Fashion Design Seniors, December 2021

"Failing to maintain a distinct doctrine of separation has led to a precipitous loss of fundamental churches, schools (Tennessee Temple University, Pillsbury Baptist College, Northland Baptist College, Clearwater Christian College), seminaries (Calvary Seminary), and missions’ agencies.

"Unless board members of fundamental churches, schools, universities, mission board agencies, and parachurch organizations (camps) repent for their compromises and purge the leadership leading their institutions, the losses will continue until we have “nearly nothing else left to lose.”

"With the heart of a shepherd,

"Travis D. Smith"


Steve Pettit issued a statement repudiating the fashion show as "clearly sacrilegious and blasphemous," but of course that wasn't good enough for Martuneac, who immediately went into a terminal case of conniptions:

<i>Dr. Steve Pettit Issues a Statement: Is There Nothing More to See Here?</i>

P reviously we posted an article discussing the BJU Fashion Design Runway Show . On Wednesday evening Dr. Steve Pettit posted a statement ad...

indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com

"Unless the board of trustees ousts Steve Pettit, the institution is not recoverable. Surely, this hard lesson was learned with the closure of Northland Int'l University at the hands of then president Matt Olson.* At BJU there needs to be a critical, deep shake up within the administration and the deans of the various schools. Faculty and staff who enabled events like the fashion show and Midsummer Night's Dream should be released." ​

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

From an outside perspective, I find all of the complaints quite petty and divisive in nature with the exception of this fashion show. While I might not be able to specify what is a sin or immoral or unethical about this show, it gives off a bad vibe, IMO. I’ll stop short of Dr. Pettit’s description of blasphemous and sacrilegious, but it just doesn’t give off a good vibe for a conservative Christian university. I’ll say it’s akin to Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart famous non-definition of obscenity: “I know it when I see it.”

 

[FSSL]

Never said he was a hack. He’s just a popular speaker. Theologians should be leading these schools.

 

[AverageJoe]

Never said he was a hack. He’s just a popular speaker. Theologians should be leading these schools.

Is there any reason to think he's not?

 

[illinoisguy]

For those who wish to do further research on the BJU fashion show fracas, there is this link:

Sacrilege and Blasphemy | SHARPER IRON

sharperiron.org

It is not clear to me whether or not Steve Pettit even knew about the fashion show until after the fact. It seems to be rather petty to fire him over some silly shenanigans and hijinks of this nature by immature college kids. But I suppose that would be in keeping with the generally harsh, unforgiving "one strike and you're out" policy among fundamentalists.

Isn't it ironic. Over the decades, BJU has built up a reputation for "shipping" students over relatively minor disciplinary issues, sometimes 9 days before their graduation as in the Chris Peterman case. (In his case, they couldn't even figure out just why they were booting out that poor schmo. Was it for posting CCM lyrics, watching "Glee," or trying to intimidate a BJU administrator)? Greg Easton, on his Hidalgo Grain Company web site, wrote about how BJU students were shipped and then banned from stepping foot on the campus again, for trivial offenses. Years ago, Bojos would brag about how BJU is like a shoe factory - "they build soles (souls), ship heels, and send them out in pairs."

But now the President of BJU is facing the serious possibility of being shipped himself, over such stuff as Shakespeare, slacks and shorts, bluegrass, and a moron wearing a woman's coat and crown of thorns at a fashion show. I am not sure if this harsh and judgmental attitude in the IFB movement with regard to their own faithful lay people, and sometimes clergy victims too, is the way to win friends and influence people or build up a movement. It seems like fundamentalism is devouring itself from within.

Of course, there are some cases where church discipline should be exercised against errant lay people, and some clergy and administrators who need to be removed from their posts, like Cameron Giovanelli, for instance. Whatever mistakes Steve Pettit has made, I don't see that his offenses rise to the level of having him shipped, but hey, that's just me.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

For those who wish to do further research on the BJU fashion show fracas, there is this link:

Sacrilege and Blasphemy | SHARPER IRON

sharperiron.org

It is not clear to me whether or not Steve Pettit even knew about the fashion show until after the fact. It seems to be rather petty to fire him over some silly shenanigans and hijinks of this nature by immature college kids. But I suppose that would be in keeping with the generally harsh, unforgiving "one strike and you're out" policy among fundamentalists.

Isn't it ironic. Over the decades, BJU has built up a reputation for "shipping" students over relatively minor disciplinary issues, sometimes 9 days before their graduation as in the Chris Peterman case. (In his case, they couldn't even figure out just why they were booting out that poor schmo. Was it for posting CCM lyrics, watching "Glee," or trying to intimidate a BJU administrator)? Greg Easton, on his Hidalgo Grain Company web site, wrote about how BJU students were shipped and then banned from stepping foot on the campus again, for trivial offenses. Years ago, Bojos would brag about how BJU is like a shoe factory - "they build soles (souls), ship heels, and send them out in pairs."

But now the President of BJU is facing the serious possibility of being shipped himself, over such stuff as Shakespeare, slacks and shorts, bluegrass, and a moron wearing a woman's coat and crown of thorns at a fashion show. I am not sure if this harsh and judgmental attitude in the IFB movement with regard to their own faithful lay people, and sometimes clergy victims too, is the way to win friends and influence people or build up a movement. It seems like fundamentalism is devouring itself from within.

Of course, there are some cases where church discipline should be exercised against errant lay people, and some clergy and administrators who need to be removed from their posts, like Cameron Giovanelli, for instance. Whatever mistakes Steve Pettit has made, I don't see that his offenses rise to the level of having him shipped, but hey, that's just me.

1970s/80s fundamentalism isn’t going to fly with Christian youth today—even the ones from fundamentalist churches. Society has changed.

 

[AverageJoe]

Sharper Iron...now that's a laugh!

 

[ALAYMAN]

They fancy themselves the intellectual fundamentalists. They are just a bunch of legalists and self-righteous prigs. I was a member of the original SharperIron. I was also a friend of the original owner, Jason Janz. It took off when he wrote an article condemning the producers of the movie "The End of the Spear" for casting a gay man. https://www.denverpost.com/2006/02/02/pastor-says-film-protest-isnt-gay-bashing/

Once he sold, or rather gave away, SharperIron, it went straight into the toilet. https://sharperiron.org/article/next-chapter-of-sharperiron

I was an occasional dabbler at SharperIron back in those days when Janz ran it, and admittedly I read it in order to counterbalance my budding relationship to (Hyles-style) fundamentalism (which was/is woefully lacking in any serious contemplative intellectual depth, which, though I was being discipled in the Hyles mold I still knew was not satisfactory for my theological journey). In that vein I found better meat in their discussion to substantiate the "militancy" in what I viewed at that time as a legitimate expression of "contending for the faith". I've since softened on my militancy and wouldn't very well associate my beliefs and sympathies with the likes of SharperIron, but I do think that they at least make a better effort at theological support for their very strong conservative cultural convictions. Having said all that, I'm curious as to your take on the End of the Spear controroversy over Chad Allen and in what way you think that SI got it wrong?

 

[AverageJoe]

They fancy themselves the intellectual fundamentalists. They are just a bunch of legalists and self-righteous prigs. I was a member of the original SharperIron. I was also a friend of the original owner, Jason Janz. It took off when he wrote an article condemning the producers of the movie "The End of the Spear" for casting a gay man. https://www.denverpost.com/2006/02/02/pastor-says-film-protest-isnt-gay-bashing/

Once he sold, or rather gave away, SharperIron, it went straight into the toilet. https://sharperiron.org/article/next-chapter-of-sharperiron

I liked it when it first started...but I grew sick of the legalism and the condescending attitude of people there. No wonder Christianity has gained a reputation of hatefulness and bigotry!

 

[ALAYMAN]

I don't think Jason aka SI got it wrong. As a matter fact, he asked me to read the article before he posted it, and he was a guest in my home when he published the article.

Oh, mea culpa, I had misinterpreted your meaning. I know that a lot of people, some of them not at all "fundys", at that time took a pretty critical approach of casting Allen, like Al Mohler, but there were also many who treated Mohler et al like pharisees for daring to even question the casting.

 

[Bob Jones V]

I liked it when it first started...but I grew sick of the legalism and the condescending attitude of people there. No wonder Christianity has gained a reputation of hatefulness and bigotry!

exactly.

 

[FSSL]

Is there any reason to think he's not?

He’s not. He knows Finneyism and practices the methods. Unless you want to consider him a Finney Theologian, then that is what he is.

 

[AverageJoe]

He’s not. He knows Finneyism and practices the methods. Unless you want to consider him a Finney Theologian, then that is what he is.

I've never been a fan of Finney, but he still was a theologian...twisted as it may be, it is still theology.

 

[FSSL]

Yikes!