Sunday School - Would you do it again?

[Ransom]

Can  you provide a first century Christianity witness for you "tradition"?

I already did: Eph. 4:11-14. The Bible teaches that God gifted some Christians to pass on the faith to others. How precisely these gifts are exercised in the church is left open, and is therefore a matter of Christian freedom. We have chosen to do it with Sunday-morning classes. YMMV. All the best in your future endeavours, as the Spirit leads.

 

[Prin.Ciples]

Christian education is the responsibility of parents. It is also the responsibility of the church, which is why God gave us

No its not the responsibility of the corporate church. I assume your next line you next line is evidence for what you said above.

the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. (Eph. 4:11-14)

God didn't bestow those gifts so that the apostles, prophets, evangelists, etc. could use them only on their own children, did they? Of course not. They are gifts to the church, for the building up of the church in faith, knowledge, and maturity. And that means that the people so gifted are going to be teaching someone else's children from time to time.

When you say educating children is the responsibility of parents, you set up a false dichotomy.

[/quote]

I didn't read anything about children in your reference. In fact, the reference is to adult. Notice the phrase "we may no longer be children". No the apostles didn't go around evangelizing children nor targeting children without their parents. Everything they did was through the family. Everything. You provide no evidence that God called teachers specfically for the purpose of teaching children. God calls teachers to teach adults who teach their children. I vet everything taught to my children. Everything. Every parent should.

 

[Prin.Ciples]

Can  you provide a first century Christianity witness for you "tradition"?

I already did: Eph. 4:11-14. The Bible teaches that God gifted some Christians to pass on the faith to others. How precisely these gifts are exercised in the church is left open, and is therefore a matter of Christian freedom. We have chosen to do it with Sunday-morning classes. YMMV. All the best in your future endeavours, as the Spirit leads.

What is YMMV? I appreciate the kind words. I wish the same. We can disagree and still want the best for our brothers in Christ. I answered your reference of Eph 4:11-14 in another post.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Can  you provide a first century Christianity witness for you "tradition"?

I already did: Eph. 4:11-14. The Bible teaches that God gifted some Christians to pass on the faith to others. How precisely these gifts are exercised in the church is left open, and is therefore a matter of Christian freedom. We have chosen to do it with Sunday-morning classes. YMMV. All the best in your future endeavours, as the Spirit leads.

What is YMMV? I appreciate the kind words. I wish the same. We can disagree and still want the best for our brothers in Christ. I answered your reference of Eph 4:11-14 in another post.

Your Mileage May Vary

 

[lnf]

Can  you provide a first century Christianity witness for you "tradition"?

I already did: Eph. 4:11-14. The Bible teaches that God gifted some Christians to pass on the faith to others. How precisely these gifts are exercised in the church is left open, and is therefore a matter of Christian freedom. We have chosen to do it with Sunday-morning classes. YMMV. All the best in your future endeavours, as the Spirit leads.

What is YMMV? I appreciate the kind words. I wish the same. We can disagree and still want the best for our brothers in Christ. I answered your reference of Eph 4:11-14 in another post.

Your Mileage May Vary

Of course that's what it means!  It makes perfect sense!  But I'll tell on myself...knowing and appreciating Ransom's brand of dry humor, my first thought was that it meant You Make Me Vomit.  ;D

Carry on...

 

[FSSL]

No, I have never translated it word for word. I have done my own translation work in Titus. Why do you ask?

Because you mentioned that my seminary training would have taught me not to apply Titus 2 to an opportunity like Sunday School.

I thought you may have exegetically worked through Titus 2 and come up with some kind of biblically based defense.

I have translated and gone through Titus exegetically. Your dismissal of the older generation shows a gaping hole in your ideas.

 

[Ransom]

I didn't read anything about children in your reference.

Are there children in the body of Christ, or not?

In fact, the reference is to adult. Notice the phrase "we may no longer be children".

They are "children" with respect to doctrine and are being matured through the ministry of those so gifted. It has nothing to do with physical age.

Context really isn't your strong suit, is it?

God calls teachers to teach adults who teach their children. I vet everything taught to my children. Everything. Every parent should.

Well, bully for you, but that's really not the point, is it?

 

[Ransom]

What is YMMV?

Your Mileage May Vary.

Meaning, you may have reason to disagree, but that's your problem, not mine.

 

[Prin.Ciples]

No, I have never translated it word for word. I have done my own translation work in Titus. Why do you ask?

Because you mentioned that my seminary training would have taught me not to apply Titus 2 to an opportunity like Sunday School.

I thought you may have exegetically worked through Titus 2 and come up with some kind of biblically based defense.

I have translated and gone through Titus exegetically. Your dismissal of the older generation shows a gaping hole in your ideas.

I never dismissed the generation. I said it has no practical application in SS. You're the one taking the exegetical facts of the text and misapplying them based on your own bias. In other words, you're ripping the exegetical concluson from the context of its first century application.

 

[FSSL]

Since SS involves the older men teaching the younger... the SS application is viable.

Please tell us why these men had to be of "sound faith?"

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Do it again.

The Beach Boys - Do It Again (stereo mix)

 

[Prin.Ciples]

I didn't read anything about children in your reference.

Are there children in the body of Christ, or not?

Yes. What does that change about what I wrote? You've provided no evidence to prove that God called teachers specfically to minister to children. The apostles didn't seperate the children, in the church they ruled, so that could be properly taught by a specfically gifted teacher of children.

They are "children" with respect to doctrine and are being matured through the ministry of those so gifted. It has nothing to do with physical age.

Oh. So its actually talking about adults being mature in the faith. Or an adult being spirtually mature. Do you get it now? The statement clearly excludes people of a certain age. There is no way a physical child can actually be an spirtual adult.

Context really isn't your strong suit, is it?

Sure it is. You missed the forrest for the trees. Context isn't really your strong suit, is it?

Well, bully for you, but that's really not the point, is it?

It is part of the point. It is within the context of what I've said concerning the issue. There no need to continue your "divide and conquer" approah.

 

[Prin.Ciples]

Since SS involves the older men teaching the younger... the SS application is viable.

Please tell us why these men had to be of "sound faith?"

So you have a first century witness to the older men teaching the younger in "Sunday School"? Please. I could take such a exegetical approah and run wild with it.

I love this country. I am a constitutional originalist. Meaning, the constitutional isn't a living breathing document that needs to change with the times. It means that the interpretation of said document is best understood within the context of its early application by those who actual wrote its words.

You're betraying the context of the early church application of what was written.

 

[Izdaari]

Since SS involves the older men teaching the younger... the SS application is viable.

Please tell us why these men had to be of "sound faith?"

So you have a first century witness to the older men teaching the younger in "Sunday School"? Please. I could take such a exegetical approah and run wild with it.

I love this country. I am a constitutional originalist. Meaning, the constitutional isn't a living breathing document that needs to change with the times. It means that the interpretation of said document is best understood within the context of its early application by those who actual wrote its words.

You're betraying the context of the early church application of what was written.

We agree on this much at least. I too am a constitutional originalist.

And I love this country, meaning the land, the people, the culture, the traditions. Not so much loving the government.

 

[FSSL]

Since SS involves the older men teaching the younger... the SS application is viable.

Please tell us why these men had to be of "sound faith?"

So you have a first century witness to the older men teaching the younger in "Sunday School"? Please. I could take such a exegetical approah and run wild with it. 

You're betraying the context of the early church application of what was written.

EXAMPLE is the word you are looking for.

The APPLICATION is derived from the teaching.

 

[Ransom]

Yes. What does that change about what I wrote? You've provided no evidence to prove that God called teachers specfically to minister to children.

Obviously you're not listening.

The Bible says the church has been gifted for the education of the saints. How that education is carried out is not specified, meaning we are at liberty to do so in a way that seems fit.

Therefore, the burden of proof is upon you, not me, to show that the Church providing Christian education geared for children is specifically unbiblical.

Ball's in your court; whether you return it or whiff on it, is entirely up to you. So far, you've come considerably short of a positive case for your position.

The apostles didn't seperate the children, in the church they ruled, so that could be properly taught by a specfically gifted teacher of children.

They don't, we do. What of it?

Oh. So its actually talking about adults being mature in the faith.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

The statement clearly excludes people of a certain age.

Now you're putting words in Paul's mouth.

 

[JrChurch]

If you were to visit our church, we would assume that you are responsible for your child.  If you would like to sit as a family in a SS class or church service, that would be fine.  If you would like to sit with your child in my class, you would be welcome to do so.  If any parent leaves their child in my care, I will endeavor to faithfully teach Bible stories and doctrine that are sound. 

I am completely in tune with parental responsibility (being a mom of five) and I am fully aware that I must give an account to the Lord for what I teach.  Whether anyone approves of SS or not doesn't effect my responsibility to be a faithful steward to the Lord.