The Arrogance of Pastors

[16KJV11]

There was a very large IFB church out West that had a well-known pastor.

One thing this pastor used to always say was when you went on vacation, he wanted to see the church bulletins from the church(s) you attended.

One young family did just that.  They planned a cross-country trip that lasted several weeks.  They attended services on Sunday and Wednesday (if travel allowed). 

They collected bulletins in hopes of giving them to their pastor.

Upon returning, the young man approached the pastor with a fist full of bulletins.  When the pastor say him approach, he turned and walked away and would not acknowledge his name being called.  The pastor walked into another room with some of the staff.  He followed and the pastor made obvious effort to ignore him.

Crushed, the young man told his wife what happened.  They never found out why he was treated that way.  Soon after, they left the church.

Oh, later this pastor left the pastorate.  Zipper problems.

Do I know this certain pastor?

 

[BALAAM]

There was a very large IFB church out West that had a well-known pastor.

One thing this pastor used to always say was when you went on vacation, he wanted to see the church bulletins from the church(s) you attended.

One young family did just that.  They planned a cross-country trip that lasted several weeks.  They attended services on Sunday and Wednesday (if travel allowed). 

They collected bulletins in hopes of giving them to their pastor.

Upon returning, the young man approached the pastor with a fist full of bulletins.  When the pastor say him approach, he turned and walked away and would not acknowledge his name being called.  The pastor walked into another room with some of the staff.  He followed and the pastor made obvious effort to ignore him.

Crushed, the young man told his wife what happened.  They never found out why he was treated that way.  Soon after, they left the church.

Oh, later this pastor left the pastorate.  Zipper problems.

The old order Amish have this right. They can only have buttons! ;D (no zippers because that is worldly)

Not that it matters but . . .

2 Points
1.  Old Order Amish do not use buttons either.  They use pins, and hook and loop fastener.
2.  Amish do not use more modern fasteners such as buttons, zippers or Velcro not because it is worldly.  It is now more tradition because at the time of these newly created fasteners, if one would use them it might create either a envy in another or a pride in the wearer.

Most of the Amish laws regarding conveniences originally had to do with not stirring up envy in another nor pride in oneself and very much less to do with not being "worldly".

Although as it evolved the very essence of such piety became a source of pride and unrighteous judgment of others.

I picked up a book standing in line at CVS pharmacy. It was called, "Why I left the Amish". It was written  by a young man and he said he never could figure out why it was ok for them to have buttons but not zippers because it was considered worldly. He also said he never could understand why they could not have a telephone but could use the neighbors phone or why they could not have electricity in the house but they could have a generator to run farm equipment. I am sure there are different sects just like the baptists.

 

[fishinnut]

There was a very large IFB church out West that had a well-known pastor.

One thing this pastor used to always say was when you went on vacation, he wanted to see the church bulletins from the church(s) you attended.

One young family did just that.  They planned a cross-country trip that lasted several weeks.  They attended services on Sunday and Wednesday (if travel allowed). 

They collected bulletins in hopes of giving them to their pastor.

Upon returning, the young man approached the pastor with a fist full of bulletins.  When the pastor say him approach, he turned and walked away and would not acknowledge his name being called.  The pastor walked into another room with some of the staff.  He followed and the pastor made obvious effort to ignore him.

Crushed, the young man told his wife what happened.  They never found out why he was treated that way.  Soon after, they left the church.

Oh, later this pastor left the pastorate.  Zipper problems.

Very common characteristic of IFBs who preach against it, but do it anyway.
Most often covered up for the sake of the ministry.

Years ago I called an old HACker friend who was pastoring a local church just to check in on him. When I asked how he was doing he launched into how he was getting tougher in his preaching on standards (pants on women, short hair on men, music, etc) unlike the big S/Bapt church close to him. Not what I asked about. A few months later he was asked to leave by the members. When they (I knew some of those members) were helping him load up a truck to move they saw liquor bottles in the boxes.  He had failed to mention his standards on drinking for the Christian.

 

[Twisted]

He had failed to mention his standards on drinking for the Christian.

Strictly an oversight, I'm sure.

 

[Twisted]

There was a very large IFB church out West that had a well-known pastor.

One thing this pastor used to always say was when you went on vacation, he wanted to see the church bulletins from the church(s) you attended.

One young family did just that.  They planned a cross-country trip that lasted several weeks.  They attended services on Sunday and Wednesday (if travel allowed). 

They collected bulletins in hopes of giving them to their pastor.

Upon returning, the young man approached the pastor with a fist full of bulletins.  When the pastor say him approach, he turned and walked away and would not acknowledge his name being called.  The pastor walked into another room with some of the staff.  He followed and the pastor made obvious effort to ignore him.

Crushed, the young man told his wife what happened.  They never found out why he was treated that way.  Soon after, they left the church.

Oh, later this pastor left the pastorate.  Zipper problems.

Do I know this certain pastor?

Uh.....Yes?  No? 

 

[bgwilkinson]

There was a very large IFB church out West that had a well-known pastor.

One thing this pastor used to always say was when you went on vacation, he wanted to see the church bulletins from the church(s) you attended.

One young family did just that.  They planned a cross-country trip that lasted several weeks.  They attended services on Sunday and Wednesday (if travel allowed). 

They collected bulletins in hopes of giving them to their pastor.

Upon returning, the young man approached the pastor with a fist full of bulletins.  When the pastor say him approach, he turned and walked away and would not acknowledge his name being called.  The pastor walked into another room with some of the staff.  He followed and the pastor made obvious effort to ignore him.

Crushed, the young man told his wife what happened.  They never found out why he was treated that way.  Soon after, they left the church.

Oh, later this pastor left the pastorate.  Zipper problems.

Very common characteristic of IFBs who preach against it, but do it anyway.
Most often covered up for the sake of the ministry.

Years ago I called an old HACker friend who was pastoring a local church just to check in on him. When I asked how he was doing he launched into how he was getting tougher in his preaching on standards (pants on women, short hair on men, music, etc) unlike the big S/Bapt church close to him. Not what I asked about. A few months later he was asked to leave by the members. When they (I knew some of those members) were helping him load up a truck to move they saw liquor bottles in the boxes.  He had failed to mention his standards on drinking for the Christian.

That's it many preachers preach against the very things they are doing.
Too many examples to name them all.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Winning the World and Losing Your Children ? Sunday Style
An example of a Christian entertainer who cannot convert his own sons.
How sad.

"It doesn?t matter what you are doing, even serving the Lord, if you are disobedient to His Word you have sinned. It doesn?t matter what you have sacrificed for the cause of spreading God?s Word, God desires obedience."

1 Samuel 15:22 Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, ? ESV

http://www.bereanwife.net/2009/07/winning-the-world-and-losing-your-children-sunday-style/

 

[sword]

Winning the World and Losing Your Children ? Sunday Style
An example of a Christian entertainer who cannot convert his own sons.
How sad.
http://www.bereanwife.net/2009/07/winning-the-world-and-losing-your-children-sunday-style/

That's a dangerous road to go down.

Jesus had one of the 12 betray him and by many accounts Judas was unsaved even though he was a follower of Jesus. Was it Jesus fault or was it the choices Judas made. Matthew 26

Jesus was the son of God yet his own brothers did not believe. John 7:5

Abraham was the patriarch of the Jews and had the faith to trust God in offering up Issac yet he was unable to influence his nephew Lot. Genesis 19

Isaac was a patriarch yet his son Esau did not value the blessing of God and sold his right to be in the lineage of Jesus.  Genesis 25:34

Job's "righteous living" did not rub off on his wife. Genesis 19:26

Samuel's two sons, Joel and Abijah, did not live for God. They did not walk in the ways of their father & they "turned aside after dishonest gain and took bribes and perverted justice" 1 Sam 8

Hezekiah was a great king and followed God yet Manasseh sacrificed his own children as burnt offerings. He consulted spirit mediums, fortune tellers and sorcerers. He angered the Lord by encouraging every sort of evil
(2 Chronicles 33:4-6)

Manoah appears to be a Godly man yet Samson lived wickedly Judges 13 & 14

Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Jacob, Samuel, David were called "heroes of the faith" (Heb 11) by God yet they had family issues.

Not sure having a child walk away from how they were raised and from they faith can always be blamed on the Dad,

 

[Fresh Air]

Not sure having a child walk away from how they were raised and from they faith can always be blamed on the Dad,

One is an anomaly, perhaps. Two is a great grief. Three is a pattern. And when you and your husband clearly neglect those children in pursuit of your ministry - and there is no doubt about that in the case of the Sunday's - then it isn't a broadbrushed criticism. It isn't even an educated guess. It is bad parenting, plain and simple.

Three men in Chicago history have a somewhat verifiable record of close to a million conversions. All three were bad fathers.

It's just so sad.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Winning the World and Losing Your Children ? Sunday Style
An example of a Christian entertainer who cannot convert his own sons.
How sad.
http://www.bereanwife.net/2009/07/winning-the-world-and-losing-your-children-sunday-style/

That's a dangerous road to go down.

Jesus had one of the 12 betray him and by many accounts Judas was unsaved even though he was a follower of Jesus. Was it Jesus fault or was it the choices Judas made. Matthew 26

Jesus was the son of God yet his own brothers did not believe. John 7:5

Abraham was the patriarch of the Jews and had the faith to trust God in offering up Issac yet he was unable to influence his nephew Lot. Genesis 19

Isaac was a patriarch yet his son Esau did not value the blessing of God and sold his right to be in the lineage of Jesus.  Genesis 25:34

Job's "righteous living" did not rub off on his wife. Genesis 19:26

Samuel's two sons, Joel and Abijah, did not live for God. They did not walk in the ways of their father & they "turned aside after dishonest gain and took bribes and perverted justice" 1 Sam 8

Hezekiah was a great king and followed God yet Manasseh sacrificed his own children as burnt offerings. He consulted spirit mediums, fortune tellers and sorcerers. He angered the Lord by encouraging every sort of evil
(2 Chronicles 33:4-6)

Manoah appears to be a Godly man yet Samson lived wickedly Judges 13 & 14

Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Jacob, Samuel, David were called "heroes of the faith" (Heb 11) by God yet they had family issues.

Not sure having a child walk away from how they were raised and from they faith can always be blamed on the Dad,

I could agree if he raised them properly.
Did you read the article?

 

[Sherryh]

You have no guarantee your children will walk with the Lord...you can do the best job possible and give them to the Lord!!

 

[Bruh]

Not sure having a child walk away from how they were raised and from they faith can always be blamed on the Dad,

One is an anomaly, perhaps. Two is a great grief. Three is a pattern. And when you and your husband clearly neglect those children in pursuit of your ministry - and there is no doubt about that in the case of the Sunday's - then it isn't a broadbrushed criticism. It isn't even an educated guess. It is bad parenting, plain and simple.

Three men in Chicago history have a somewhat verifiable record of close to a million conversions. All three were bad fathers.

It's just so sad.

And when the children stand before their Creator they will answer for the life they lived, period! They will not get a pass one thing because of the neglect of the parents.

It is much easier to raise a man then to mend one but the man that needs mending will answer for his life and not get a pass because of the parents.

 

[Twisted]

There was a church were the pastor's daughter married a Bible college student.

After 6 weeks, the daughter did not want to be married any longer.  While no one really knew WHY this was the case, it was known that no sexual sin had happened or physical violence.

So the pastor stood in the pulpit and used his position to sway the church to support his daughter.  The son-in-law was given no voice.

To their credit, 3 families rose in protest, telling the pastor it was inappropriate to use his position as pastor to influence people on this.

The pastor disagreed, using his bully pulpit to force 2 families to leave the church and then creating false accusations against the third and having the deacons kick them out.

The result?  It didn't end well for this pastor or the church.  The son-in-law remarried and has a great family.

 

[bgwilkinson]

There was a church were the pastor's daughter married a Bible college student.

After 6 weeks, the daughter did not want to be married any longer.  While no one really knew WHY this was the case, it was known that no sexual sin had happened or physical violence.

So the pastor stood in the pulpit and used his position to sway the church to support his daughter.  The son-in-law was given no voice.

To their credit, 3 families rose in protest, telling the pastor it was inappropriate to use his position as pastor to influence people on this.

The pastor disagreed, using his bully pulpit to force 2 families to leave the church and then creating false accusations against the third and having the deacons kick them out.

The result?  It didn't end well for this pastor or the church.  The son-in-law remarried and has a great family.

A Baptist Pope if I ever heard of one. The man would make a cancerous father in law and an even worse pastor.  Sadly there are just too many men like this that claim God called them to Be a pastor.

 

[TheRealJonStewart]

There was a church were the pastor's daughter married a Bible college student.

After 6 weeks, the daughter did not want to be married any longer.  While no one really knew WHY this was the case, it was known that no sexual sin had happened or physical violence.

So the pastor stood in the pulpit and used his position to sway the church to support his daughter.  The son-in-law was given no voice.

To their credit, 3 families rose in protest, telling the pastor it was inappropriate to use his position as pastor to influence people on this.

The pastor disagreed, using his bully pulpit to force 2 families to leave the church and then creating false accusations against the third and having the deacons kick them out.

The result?  It didn't end well for this pastor or the church.  The son-in-law remarried and has a great family.

Sounds very familiar, is the student from WCBC?

 

[Walt]

Not sure having a child walk away from how they were raised and from they faith can always be blamed on the Dad,

One is an anomaly, perhaps. Two is a great grief. Three is a pattern. And when you and your husband clearly neglect those children in pursuit of your ministry - and there is no doubt about that in the case of the Sunday's - then it isn't a broadbrushed criticism. It isn't even an educated guess. It is bad parenting, plain and simple.

Three men in Chicago history have a somewhat verifiable record of close to a million conversions. All three were bad fathers.

It's just so sad.

And when the children stand before their Creator they will answer for the life they lived, period! They will not get a pass one thing because of the neglect of the parents.

It is much easier to raise a man then to mend one but the man that needs mending will answer for his life and not get a pass because of the parents.

Both are true.  As we are sinners, that means none of us are perfect parents.  I have made errors in the raising of my children, and when I pray for forgiveness, I pray that they will love God in spite of my errors.

At the same time, my sins are no excuse for them rejecting God, and they will answer for themselves.


My experience is that we have a hard time being balanced about people; we have our idols (heroes?) and don't want to hear anything against them, or else we want to vilify a man because he sinned. It's hard to achieve a balance.  The Bible is perfect in this. It presents men as they are.  Abraham has the wonderful title of "friend of God", but the Bible does not gloss over or hide his sin.  David was "a man after God's own heart", but his sins are presented.

So, yes, Billy Sunday (who I assume is one of the men referenced) did fail in raising his family... but he did leave a lucrative career to follow God's calling and did preach to crowds, and was an influence for God.

 

[Twisted]

There was a church were the pastor's daughter married a Bible college student.

After 6 weeks, the daughter did not want to be married any longer.  While no one really knew WHY this was the case, it was known that no sexual sin had happened or physical violence.

So the pastor stood in the pulpit and used his position to sway the church to support his daughter.  The son-in-law was given no voice.

To their credit, 3 families rose in protest, telling the pastor it was inappropriate to use his position as pastor to influence people on this.

The pastor disagreed, using his bully pulpit to force 2 families to leave the church and then creating false accusations against the third and having the deacons kick them out.

The result?  It didn't end well for this pastor or the church.  The son-in-law remarried and has a great family.

Sounds very familiar, is the student from WCBC?

No.

 

[Twisted]

I must say I'm a little disappointed at the lack of contributing stories.

Surely those on this forum have experienced and seen examples of arrogance.

Possibly you are just shamed to admit you know such characters.  Don't worry, we all understand.

 

[Twisted]

On a Monday:

<phone call>

P:  "Brother, my wife and I would like to take you and the Mrs. out for dinner this Friday at 7PM.

M:  "Pastor, we would be greatly honored.  Thank you.  See you then."

Friday, 5:30PM

<phone call>

P:  "Brother, something important has come up and I will need to cancel."

M:  "Sorry to hear that.  Hope it's nothing serious."

Feeling bad for his wife, the Member takes her out for dinner anyway.  When they arrive at the restaurant, they see the pastor and his wife dining with another church family.

 

[Walt]

On a Monday:

<phone call>

P:  "Brother, my wife and I would like to take you and the Mrs. out for dinner this Friday at 7PM.

M:  "Pastor, we would be greatly honored.  Thank you.  See you then."

Friday, 5:30PM

<phone call>

P:  "Brother, something important has come up and I will need to cancel."

M:  "Sorry to hear that.  Hope it's nothing serious."

Feeling bad for his wife, the Member takes her out for dinner anyway.  When they arrive at the restaurant, they see the pastor and his wife dining with another church family.

This may not be a pastor's arrogance; I can think of two other explanations for such behavior.