The capricious interpretation of Bibleprotector and his claims to KJVOism

[FSSL]

A self-proclaimed prophet in Australia claims to have exclusive protective claims over a particular edition of the ONLY "pure" KJV.

So audacious, this twenty-something, he actually calls himself the "Bibleprotector."

This false teacher has established a capricious list of "tests" to make sure you have the only KJV you should use. Here is his list...

1. "or Sheba" not "and Sheba" in Joshua 19:2
2. "sin" not "sins" in 2 Chronicles 33:19
3. "Spirit of God" not "spirit of God" in Job 33:4
4. "whom ye" not "whom he" in Jeremiah 34:16
5. "Spirit of God" not "spirit of God" in Ezekiel 11:24
6. "flieth" not "fleeth" in Nahum 3:16
7. "Spirit" not "spirit" in Matthew 4:1
8. "further" not "farther" in Matthew 26:39
9. "bewrayeth" not "betrayeth" in Matthew 26:73
10. "Spirit" not "spirit" in Mark 1:12
11. "spirit" not "Spirit" in Acts 11:28
12. "spirit" not "Spirit" in 1 John 5:8

I would like to point out that this list is capricious and selective. Of the 12 tests, the name of the "Spirit" is at issue. That is 50% of the tests raise the issue of capitalization of "Spirit" as an issue to see if you have the right Bible.

So... what does Bible"protector's" Bible do? It FAILS to captitalize "Spirit" when it is obvious that the Holy Spirit is being addressed. Here are some examples from Bible"protector's" unreliable KJV...

And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, Exodus 31:3

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Psalm 51:11

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 1 John 5:8

There are many more examples. This should suffice to open up discussion.

Hey! If you can't get the third person of the Trinity right, you have no credibility as a teacher of the Bible OR a Pentecostal

 

[Vince Massi]

Hold on there, Horsefeathers! I've read that guy's stuff, researched his claims, and even talked to him on a forum.

He is trying to answer the unanswerable question "WHICH KJV do you believe"? The only two existing copies of the first KJV slightly contradict each other. Many KJVs are compilations of different plates with different mistakes, and are from different revisions.

He concluded that of the more than 8,000 slightly different KJVs, the 1900 Cambridge is the only one with no printing errors or revision discrepancies.

Too bad it's out of print.

 

[FSSL]

Hold on there, Horsefeathers! I've read that guy's stuff, researched his claims, and even talked to him on a forum.

He is trying to answer the unanswerable question "WHICH KJV do you believe"? The only two existing copies of the first KJV slightly contradict each other. Many KJVs are compilations of different plates with different mistakes, and are from different revisions.

He concluded that of the more than 8,000 slightly different KJVs, the 1900 Cambridge is the only one with no printing errors or revision discrepancies.

I pointed out three discrepancies above. Are you able to debunk the OP or do you just want to defend the guy just because you talked to him on a forum?

He is a capricious and deceptive for establishing a non-effective set of tests.

Too bad it's out of print.

Too bad he has influenced some to believe the only trustworthy Bible is one you cannot find.

 

[SAWBONES]

Too bad he has influenced some to believe the only trustworthy Bible is one you cannot find.

Aw, sure you can, FSSL!

You can download it from "Bibleprotector's" website, or buy it from him in a nasty paperback edition! 

Otherwise, you're outta luck, because none of the KJV editions from Collins and other older Bible publishers which Matthew Verschuur likes to describe as being representative "PCE"s, are in print any more.

Dunno who would ever be so stupid or so gullible as to believe in his "PCE" (his own made-up term) being somehow a more wonderful KJV than other editions, though, much less "the only trustworthy Bible". Certainly the folks at Cambridge University Press know nothing of any "PCE"; I wrote to them to inquire, and they never heard of any such thing.

As though trivial differences in English punctuation and capitalization (no indications of which were present in the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek manuscripts) would somehow validate or invalidate a version of the Bible, or as though he, Matthew Verschuur, is somehow qualified to authoritatively pontificate about such a transparently-foolish subject!

I do appreciate others' genuine faith, but not some folks' silly superstitions, of which KJVOism is a truly silly example, basically another false doctrine within Christendom.
As a subset of KJVOism, the  "PCE" business is just laughable.

 

[Ransom]

He is trying to answer the unanswerable question "WHICH KJV do you believe"?

Yeah . . . by inventing one of his own.

 

[Vince Massi]

While very strongly disagreeing with the man, I do understand his thinking.

The original KJV incorrectly ended Jeremiah 32:5 with a period. However, two verses up, you see that verse 5 is the end of a question and should have a question mark. The 1900 Cambridge Edition is the first KJV to punctuate the verse correctly.

Every single KJV printed before 1900 has this mistake, as do many of the ones that come afterwards.

For the record, my 1975 Hyles-Anderson Special Edition Bible does not have the question mark, and is therefore not perfect.

 

[bgwilkinson]

While very strongly disagreeing with the man, I do understand his thinking.

The original KJV incorrectly ended Jeremiah 32:5 with a period. However, two verses up, you see that verse 5 is the end of a question and should have a question mark. The 1900 Cambridge Edition is the first KJV to punctuate the verse correctly.

Every single KJV printed before 1900 has this mistake, as do many of the ones that come afterwards.

For the record, my 1975 Hyles-Anderson Special Edition Bible does not have the question mark, and is therefore not perfect.

How about that. ESV has the question mark.

5 And he shall take Zedekiah to Babylon, and there he shall remain until I visit him, declares the LORD. Though you fight against the Chaldeans, you shall not succeed’?”

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2001). (Je 32:5). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

 

[logos1560]

The original KJV incorrectly ended Jeremiah 32:5 with a period. However, two verses up, you see that verse 5 is the end of a question and should have a question mark. The 1900 Cambridge Edition is the first KJV to punctuate the verse correctly.

Every single KJV printed before 1900 has this mistake, as do many of the ones that come afterwards.

Have you checked every single edition of the KJV printed before 1900?

I have an edition of the KJV printed before 1900 that has a question mark at the end of Jeremiah 32:5.  It is an edition of the KJV printed by the American Bible Society in 1853.

And he shall lead Zedekiah to Babylon, and there shall he be until I visit him, saith the LORD:  though ye fight with the Chaldeans, ye shall not prosper?
[1853 ABS KJV]

 

[Ransom]

The original KJV incorrectly ended Jeremiah 32:5 with a period. However, two verses up, you see that verse 5 is the end of a question and should have a question mark. The 1900 Cambridge Edition is the first KJV to punctuate the verse correctly.

It's the work of Satan. Burn 'em.

 

[Vince Massi]

Have you checked every single edition of the KJV printed before 1900?

I have an edition of the KJV printed before 1900 that has a question mark at the end of Jeremiah 32:5.  It is an edition of the KJV printed by the American Bible Society in 1853.

And he shall lead Zedekiah to Babylon, and there shall he be until I visit him, saith the LORD:  though ye fight with the Chaldeans, ye shall not prosper?
[1853 ABS KJV]

By George, Logos, we need to hand you the Eagle Eye Award! The guy checked every single old KJV he could find, using museums, old bookstores, borrowed copies, and online reproductions. He states that the Cambridge 1900 Edition of the KJV is the first one to get it right.

And he is wrong. You have found one that punctuated it correctly before 1900. I am impressed.

I will correct my own mistake and say that MOST KJVs printed before 1900 have the verse punctuated incorrectly.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Have you checked every single edition of the KJV printed before 1900?

I have an edition of the KJV printed before 1900 that has a question mark at the end of Jeremiah 32:5.  It is an edition of the KJV printed by the American Bible Society in 1853.

And he shall lead Zedekiah to Babylon, and there shall he be until I visit him, saith the LORD:  though ye fight with the Chaldeans, ye shall not prosper?
[1853 ABS KJV]

By George, Logos, we need to hand you the Eagle Eye Award! The guy checked every single old KJV he could find, using museums, old bookstores, borrowed copies, and online reproductions. He states that the Cambridge 1900 Edition of the KJV is the first one to get it right.

And he is wrong. You have found one that punctuated it correctly before 1900. I am impressed.

I will correct my own mistake and say that MOST KJVs printed before 1900 have the verse punctuated incorrectly.

You should not be at all surprised.

This is typical of Logos' work.

Logos' work is massively voluminous and is highly accurate.

You might want to check it out.

On second thought you probably shouldn't, as it makes KJVO look foolish.

 

[prophet]

Besides... a 1853 ABS is pretty common. I carried one throughout college and my first three years of ministry.


Vince just puts up a smokescreen because he cannot answer the fact that the GREATEST problems with the Bible"protector" KJV is the failure to capitalize the Holy Spirit in numerous places.

I think you have Vince read wrong.
He isn't some KJVO nut.

 

[Vince Massi]

Concerning the capitalization of "spirit" and "Spirit," neither the Hebrew nor the Greek use capital letters (although later manuscripts sometimes did). In Matthew 4:1 and Mark 12:1, different KJVs capitalize or do not capitalize "spirit."

Now, ignore the accusations, round up all your KJVs and KJV New Testaments, and look up those two verses in each one. You will find that your own KJVs, which you have in your own homes, contradict each other.

 

[FSSL]

Concerning the capitalization of "spirit" and "Spirit," neither the Hebrew nor the Greek use capital letters (although later manuscripts sometimes did). In Matthew 4:1 and Mark 12:1, different KJVs capitalize or do not capitalize "spirit."

I know that... and the Hebrew does not have a question mark in Jeremiah, but you happily diverted the discussion to make that point.

The OP is NOT about what the original languages have but what the Bible"protector" KJV has.

Now, ignore the accusations, round up all your KJVs and KJV New Testaments, and look up those two verses in each one. You will find that your own KJVs, which you have in your own homes, contradict each other.

Sure they do... however, Bible"protector's" KJV contradicts ITSELF.

Are you not in agreement with that? Do you not find him to be deceptive and capricious?

 

[Vince Massi]

I posted this somewhere, years ago, and I finally found it:

I found this old post on another site: Sunday at Church we found out that at Mark 1:12
some KJV's have 'spirit' while others have 'Spirit' we found that this is even in KJV's by
the same publisher.

After reading this, I got curious.
1) My parallel Spanish/KJV says "spirit"
2) My New Scofield says "Spirit"
3) My Hyles-Anderson KJV says "Spirit"
4) My Thompson Chain Reference Bible says "Spirit"
5) My 1901 KJV (Bought it at a junk shop; leather-bound, great buy for $1) says "spirit"
6) The 1611 KJV Online says "spirit"
7) The University of Virginia Online Text Center KJV says "Spirit"
8) The 1611 KJV Online from Stewarton Bible School in Scotland says "Spirit"
9) The AV1611 King James Bible Page says "Spirit"
10) The Dewey Library online facsimile of the original 1611 KJV says "Spirit

 

[Vince Massi]

Now in the original OP, it is stated:

This false teacher has established a capricious list of "tests" to make sure you have the only KJV you should use. Here is his list...

1. "or Sheba" not "and Sheba" in Joshua 19:2
2. "sin" not "sins" in 2 Chronicles 33:19
3. "Spirit of God" not "spirit of God" in Job 33:4
4. "whom ye" not "whom he" in Jeremiah 34:16
5. "Spirit of God" not "spirit of God" in Ezekiel 11:24
6. "flieth" not "fleeth" in Nahum 3:16
7. "Spirit" not "spirit" in Matthew 4:1
8. "further" not "farther" in Matthew 26:39
9. "bewrayeth" not "betrayeth" in Matthew 26:73
10. "Spirit" not "spirit" in Mark 1:12
11. "spirit" not "Spirit" in Acts 11:28
12. "spirit" not "Spirit" in 1 John 5:8

The list is not capricious. The fellow has collected a list of the most common contradictions in various KJVs. If you'll round up all the KJVs in your house again, and look up these verses, you will find that your own KJVs contradict each other.

 

[FSSL]

The list is not capricious. The fellow has collected a list of the most common contradictions in various KJVs. If you'll round up all the KJVs in your house again, and look up these verses, you will find that your own KJVs contradict each other.

You really have difficulty following the argument. This is NOT about OTHER KJVs. It is about places in his OWN Bible.

It is capricious because there are plenty of examples in his OWN KJV where Spirit should be treated with the dignity of a capital.

Perhaps a requote from the OP will help...

I would like to point out that this list is capricious and selective. Of the 12 tests, the name of the "Spirit" is at issue. That is 50% of the tests raise the issue of capitalization of "Spirit" as an issue to see if you have the right Bible.

So... what does Bible"protector's" Bible do? It FAILS to captitalize "Spirit" when it is obvious that the Holy Spirit is being addressed. Here are some examples from Bible"protector's" unreliable KJV...

 

[bgwilkinson]

The list is not capricious. The fellow has collected a list of the most common contradictions in various KJVs. If you'll round up all the KJVs in your house again, and look up these verses, you will find that your own KJVs contradict each other.

You really have difficulty following the argument. This is NOT about OTHER KJVs. It is about places in his OWN Bible.

It is capricious because there are plenty of examples in his OWN KJV where Spirit should be treated with the dignity of a capital.

Perhaps a requote from the OP will help...

I would like to point out that this list is capricious and selective. Of the 12 tests, the name of the "Spirit" is at issue. That is 50% of the tests raise the issue of capitalization of "Spirit" as an issue to see if you have the right Bible.

So... what does Bible"protector's" Bible do? It FAILS to capitalize "Spirit" when it is obvious that the Holy Spirit is being addressed. Here are some examples from Bible"protector's" unreliable KJV...

Sometimes we read things that are not there.

I plead guilty to doing that very thing at times.

Maybe that's what happened.

I know my eyes play tricks on me. Old age at work.

 

[Vince Massi]

Now then, why are there so many contradictions in various KJVs?

Bible Protector did a lot of research on this one. Britain legally owns the KJV, and over the centuries, they have authorized Cambridge University Press and Oxford University Press to print them. And early on, different printing errors, spelling errors, and word revisions appeared. These errors were continued as the two  universities were authorized to print more KJVs. Bible Protector even shows how the two would do printings in the same year that would contradict each other.

 

[FSSL]

Now then, why are there so many contradictions in various KJVs?

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but it is painfully obvious that you would rather talk over the OP instead of interacting with it.

The question is "Why does Bible"protector" refuse to consistently exalt the Spirit, as Lord, in his own Bible?"

Either interact with this question or start your own thread. THAT would be an honest start.