The Free Will Challenge

[The Rogue Tomato]

If you truly have free will, then you should be able to accept and complete this challenge:

Exercise your will to never again commit a sin of thought or deed. 

Let me know how you do. 

I bet half of you failed simply by your reaction to reading this challenge.

 

[christundivided]

If you truly have free will, then you should be able to accept and complete this challenge:

Exercise your will to never again commit a sin of thought or deed. 

Let me know how you do. 

I bet half of you failed simply by your reaction to reading this challenge.

LOL.

the ability to cease sin is not necessarily about free will. It's about power. Man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his own will.

It's a little more complicated than your challenge takes into consideration.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

If you truly have free will, then you should be able to accept and complete this challenge:

Exercise your will to never again commit a sin of thought or deed. 

Let me know how you do. 

I bet half of you failed simply by your reaction to reading this challenge.

LOL.

the ability to cease sin is not necessarily about free will. It's about power. Man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his own will.

It's a little more complicated than your challenge takes into consideration.

If man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his will, then his will is not free. 

 

[rsc2a]

If man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his will, then his will is not free.

You must be re-reading the Luther book again.

 

[christundivided]

If you truly have free will, then you should be able to accept and complete this challenge:

Exercise your will to never again commit a sin of thought or deed. 

Let me know how you do. 

I bet half of you failed simply by your reaction to reading this challenge.

LOL.

the ability to cease sin is not necessarily about free will. It's about power. Man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his own will.

It's a little more complicated than your challenge takes into consideration.

If man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his will, then his will is not free.

That's not true. Let me give you an example of free will.

Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=The Rogue Tomato]If man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his will, then his will is not free.

That's not true. Let me give you an example of free will.

Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. [/quote]

Do you not realize that the verse you provided is stating the exact opposite of what you claim it is stating?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

If you truly have free will, then you should be able to accept and complete this challenge:

Exercise your will to never again commit a sin of thought or deed. 

Let me know how you do. 

I bet half of you failed simply by your reaction to reading this challenge.

LOL.

the ability to cease sin is not necessarily about free will. It's about power. Man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his own will.

It's a little more complicated than your challenge takes into consideration.

If man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his will, then his will is not free.

That's not true. Let me give you an example of free will.

Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

That's a perfect example of the bondage of the will.  He is saying the same thing I'm saying.  The will is present, but it is not free. 

"If man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his will, then his will is not free."

Same thing.

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=The Rogue Tomato]If man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his will, then his will is not free.

That's not true. Let me give you an example of free will.

Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Do you not realize that the verse you provided is stating the exact opposite of what you claim it is stating?
[/quote]

I've asked you repeatedly to leave me alone. Go away.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]I've asked you repeatedly to leave me alone. Go away.
[/quote]

Then iggy me. Because I feel no obligation to ignore your posts...

 

[christundivided]

If you truly have free will, then you should be able to accept and complete this challenge:

Exercise your will to never again commit a sin of thought or deed. 

Let me know how you do. 

I bet half of you failed simply by your reaction to reading this challenge.

LOL.

the ability to cease sin is not necessarily about free will. It's about power. Man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his own will.

It's a little more complicated than your challenge takes into consideration.

If man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his will, then his will is not free.

That's not true. Let me give you an example of free will.

Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

That's a perfect example of the bondage of the will.  He is saying the same thing I'm saying.  The will is present, but it is not free. 

"If man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his will, then his will is not free."

Same thing.

Humm..... so sad.

Did you notice the word "will". Can you explain the relationship between "will" and freewill?

Simple question. Just don't quote an "english definition"  when referencing a theological issue. Sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn't. Clearly, you do not understand why this happens.

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]I've asked you repeatedly to leave me alone. Go away.

Then iggy me. Because I feel no obligation to ignore your posts...
[/quote]

Not going to do it. IF, you say something about me... I want to know it.

You should stop commenting on my posts. I have/will your posts. Go away. If you keep stalking me.... I will take action. You have constantly lied about me. You're a slanderer.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Did you notice the word "will". Can you explain the relationship between "will" and freewill?

English definitions are best.  I speak English. 

Definition of WILL

:  desire, wish: as

a :  disposition, inclination <where there's a will there's a way>
b :  appetite, passion
c :  choice, determination

In reference to free-will soteriology, the definition is C, choice, determination. 

So the difference between "will" and "free will" is that one is a mere desire (good or evil), the other is the freedom to put that will/desire into action.  We do not have the latter (free will). 

Also from M-W:

free will noun

: the ability to choose how to act

: the ability to make choices that are not controlled by fate or God

If you can't put your will into action, your will is not free.

 

[christundivided]

Did you notice the word "will". Can you explain the relationship between "will" and freewill?

English definitions are best.  I speak English. 

Definition of WILL

:  desire, wish: as

a :  disposition, inclination <where there's a will there's a way>
b :  appetite, passion
c :  choice, determination

In reference to free-will soteriology, the definition is C, choice, determination. 

So the difference between "will" and "free will" is that one is a mere desire (good or evil), the other is the freedom to put that will/desire into action.  We do not have the latter (free will).

Well, I'm glad you decided to choose ONE of the definitions. The very fact there are multiple definition means there are different means based on use of the word. Theologically speaking, the subject transcends the english language and can only be properly defined in the Scriptures themselves.

If you have ever studied the philosophy of freewill, you would know the subject has been debated for a long time. There are many who argue that freewill is a term that implies miss use of the word "will'... .and that all "will" is actually freewill.

I'll add more later. Have to go for now.

 

[prophet]

Your 'free will' is in  a free market.  It is being appealed to by many players. Any any given moment you have the liberty of will to give in to these players.  Among them are: The LORD, the world the flesh, the Devil, other humans with your best interest in mind, other humans who could care less about you but will tempt you for their own pleaure, other humans who hate you, other humans who mean well but themselves make horrible choices, and too many others to list.
  With all that said, In my life, I feel that God accepted my submission to Him, and has removed some of my ability to exercise my freewill.  There have been a couple of times where I thought I could make a choice, and God would not allow me to...to the point where I said out loud ::"ok, I know you stopped me, what is it you want me to do?".
The action would have destroyed me.  I had no idea that God had a path laid out for me to walk, but He did, and guided me on to it.
  May we freely accept God's marriage proposal? Yes. 
  May we, his espoused, live like we don't know Him...not for long, and not comfortably.  Will He interfere? Definitely. 
The fool hath said in his heart, 'I have a free will'.

Anishinabe

 

[Izdaari]

If you truly have free will, then you should be able to accept and complete this challenge:

Exercise your will to never again commit a sin of thought or deed. 

Let me know how you do. 

I bet half of you failed simply by your reaction to reading this challenge.

LOL.

the ability to cease sin is not necessarily about free will. It's about power. Man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his own will.

It's a little more complicated than your challenge takes into consideration.

If man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his will, then his will is not free.

I understand. I want to drive a Ferrari instead of this old Ford, but I lack the means to do so. So my will is not free... not free in the sense of being without cost at least. "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride."

 

[T-Bone]

If you truly have free will, then you should be able to accept and complete this challenge:

Exercise your will to never again commit a sin of thought or deed. 

Let me know how you do. 

I bet half of you failed simply by your reaction to reading this challenge.

LOL.

the ability to cease sin is not necessarily about free will. It's about power. Man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his own will.

It's a little more complicated than your challenge takes into consideration.

If man does not have the power to bring about the entirety of his will, then his will is not free.

Using your thought taken to it logical conclusion...then since we have no freedom of will, then someone else is responsible for our sin...who could that be?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Using your thought taken to it logical conclusion...then since we have no freedom of will, then someone else is responsible for our sin...who could that be?

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

 

[rsc2a]

Honestly, I don't see how anyone with even a basic understanding of causality can claim that the universe is anything but determined.

 

[T-Bone]

So it is settled then...you are a sinner because God predetermined that you would be one, and not only that He is responsible for your acts of sin, and He is to blame ultimately for sin.  He is it's author!  Crazy theology you have there, not to mention blasphemous.

 

[Bob H]

So it is settled then...you are a sinner because God predetermined that you would be one, and not only that He is responsible for your acts of sin, and He is to blame ultimately for sin.  He is it's author!  Crazy theology you have there, not to mention blasphemous.

Apparently Rom 2:11 doesn't mean what it says . But at least the mata is honest. Though he used the wrong verses he admits to double predestination. The vast majority of cals don't. I'll gonna help him out with the right ones.

"What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles"

You cannot have the riches of His glory prepared by God without accepting the vessels prepared for destruction.