The Girl(s)

[Binaca Chugger]

TeaParty,

You believe your interpretation of Scripture is always correct.  Always.  You have a a very demeaning and manipulative and sexist paradigm about women.  When people try pointing out your shortcomings, you attack or refuse to learn or defer the correction to someone else.

Guess what?  These are the exact same character traits of a young Jack Schaap.  Beware young man.  Beware.

Why are you lecturing me and leaving out others who have been less than kind to me?

Exactly.  You proved my point.  Deferring blame. 

My guess?  You don't even realize the demeaning, manipulative and sexist paradigm of woman.  I'm trying to help you.  Examine yourself.  Be quiet and ask each of those women in your life how they feel about your treatment of them.  Are they free to point out your shortcomings?  Are they able to teach you about what they learned in their Bible reading?  Or, do you quickly tune these things out because you already have all of the information?

You were taught wrong.  You had bad examples.  You have made mistakes.  Examine yourself, then ask God to search you.  It's okay to admit your failures.  Learn.  Grow. 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

it has come to my attention my brother invictus has denied me as his sister on another community which I am not apart of

i am his sister

he has kicked me to to curb like trash since I have come out with the truth about my past as a seven year child

i am broken hearted over this

i have also argued with him recently after seeing his attempts to fornicate with a female less than half his age on another community

i called him a pedophile because that is how he looks to me over that situation

ivy

ummm......................  Wrong thread. :-\  Good luck to you though, I guess. :-\

 

[ifbteaparty]

TeaParty,

You believe your interpretation of Scripture is always correct.  Always.  You have a a very demeaning and manipulative and sexist paradigm about women.  When people try pointing out your shortcomings, you attack or refuse to learn or defer the correction to someone else.

Guess what?  These are the exact same character traits of a young Jack Schaap.  Beware young man.  Beware.

Why are you lecturing me and leaving out others who have been less than kind to me?

Exactly.  You proved my point.  Deferring blame. 

My guess?  You don't even realize the demeaning, manipulative and sexist paradigm of woman.  I'm trying to help you.  Examine yourself.  Be quiet and ask each of those women in your life how they feel about your treatment of them.  Are they free to point out your shortcomings?  Are they able to teach you about what they learned in their Bible reading?  Or, do you quickly tune these things out because you already have all of the information?

You were taught wrong.  You had bad examples.  You have made mistakes.  Examine yourself, then ask God to search you.  It's okay to admit your failures.  Learn.  Grow.

How do you know how I was taught? Yes, I have made mistakes, big time. I live with them every day. My wife comes to me on a regular basis asking me about the Bible, and they are good discussions.

Let's make a deal: I won't make crazy assumptions about you and your wife and your treatment of women, and you can stop doing the same for me.

 

[myeyesareopen]

So, ifb: when you go door-knocking, do you tell the man of the house that you'd like to show him how to be saved? Do you then turn to his wife and explain that since she is not made in the image of God, rather just to serve man and be a receptacle for his seed, you want to show her that God made a way for her to be saved, too? Do you take her to I Tim 2:15 and encourage her to get pregnant so that she can be saved? Do you then assure her that it is not YOUR idea but God's, thus exonerating yourself in case she bristles or takes umbrage?

 

[Binaca Chugger]

TeaParty,

You believe your interpretation of Scripture is always correct.  Always.  You have a a very demeaning and manipulative and sexist paradigm about women.  When people try pointing out your shortcomings, you attack or refuse to learn or defer the correction to someone else.

Guess what?  These are the exact same character traits of a young Jack Schaap.  Beware young man.  Beware.

Why are you lecturing me and leaving out others who have been less than kind to me?

Exactly.  You proved my point.  Deferring blame. 

My guess?  You don't even realize the demeaning, manipulative and sexist paradigm of woman.  I'm trying to help you.  Examine yourself.  Be quiet and ask each of those women in your life how they feel about your treatment of them.  Are they free to point out your shortcomings?  Are they able to teach you about what they learned in their Bible reading?  Or, do you quickly tune these things out because you already have all of the information?

You were taught wrong.  You had bad examples.  You have made mistakes.  Examine yourself, then ask God to search you.  It's okay to admit your failures.  Learn.  Grow.

How do you know how I was taught? Yes, I have made mistakes, big time. I live with them every day. My wife comes to me on a regular basis asking me about the Bible, and they are good discussions.

Let's make a deal: I won't make crazy assumptions about you and your wife and your treatment of women, and you can stop doing the same for me.

You were taught by the IFB who is a player in the Tea Party, which is why you are IFBTeaParty - right? (You promoted him so much in the past and by your picture are young enough to have been taught by him).  Even if not, you are classic IFB Party Line. 

Kudos to you for admitting your mistakes. 

Next step-->Go to your wife and ask a question. 
Women have exceptionally high intelligence and a perspective on issues to which men are blind.  If God has given you a wife who is to help you and is meet for your specific needs, then her purpose is to point out your faults or make up for your shortcomings that you as a unite may be further sanctified or conformed to the image of God - ie: to help you.

A personal story:
I attended a class on how to interview for a job and how to conduct interviews for HR Managers.  We did mock interviews in front of the group.  After my interview, the instructor and entire group tore me apart for my evident arrogance.  20 some people were in agreement that I was arrogant and trying to present the issue to me in order to help me.  Guess what I did?  Yep.  I denied it and accused them all of being jealous of my ability.  It was an opportunity for me to learn and grow in sanctification, but I scorned the opportunity.  It would be years and heartache later before I finally submitted to God's working to correct me of my fault.

Purpose to the story:
You have a handful of people with whom you regularly converse pointing out one of your flaws.  Maybe it is so deep rooted you don't even believe it is there.  I would encourage you to not make the same mistake I did. 

 

[Just John]

TeaParty,

You believe your interpretation of Scripture is always correct.  Always.  You have a a very demeaning and manipulative and sexist paradigm about women.  When people try pointing out your shortcomings, you attack or refuse to learn or defer the correction to someone else.

Guess what?  These are the exact same character traits of a young Jack Schaap.  Beware young man.  Beware.

Why are you lecturing me and leaving out others who have been less than kind to me?

Exactly.  You proved my point.  Deferring blame. 

My guess?  You don't even realize the demeaning, manipulative and sexist paradigm of woman.  I'm trying to help you.  Examine yourself.  Be quiet and ask each of those women in your life how they feel about your treatment of them.  Are they free to point out your shortcomings?  Are they able to teach you about what they learned in their Bible reading?  Or, do you quickly tune these things out because you already have all of the information?

You were taught wrong.  You had bad examples.  You have made mistakes.  Examine yourself, then ask God to search you.  It's okay to admit your failures.  Learn.  Grow.

How do you know how I was taught? Yes, I have made mistakes, big time. I live with them every day. My wife comes to me on a regular basis asking me about the Bible, and they are good discussions.

Let's make a deal: I won't make crazy assumptions about you and your wife and your treatment of women, and you can stop doing the same for me.

You were taught by the IFB who is a player in the Tea Party, which is why you are IFBTeaParty - right? (You promoted him so much in the past and by your picture are young enough to have been taught by him).  Even if not, you are classic IFB Party Line. 

Kudos to you for admitting your mistakes. 

Next step-->Go to your wife and ask a question. 
Women have exceptionally high intelligence and a perspective on issues to which men are blind.  If God has given you a wife who is to help you and is meet for your specific needs, then her purpose is to point out your faults or make up for your shortcomings that you as a unite may be further sanctified or conformed to the image of God - ie: to help you.

A personal story:
I attended a class on how to interview for a job and how to conduct interviews for HR Managers.  We did mock interviews in front of the group.  After my interview, the instructor and entire group tore me apart for my evident arrogance.  20 some people were in agreement that I was arrogant and trying to present the issue to me in order to help me.  Guess what I did?  Yep.  I denied it and accused them all of being jealous of my ability.  It was an opportunity for me to learn and grow in sanctification, but I scorned the opportunity.  It would be years and heartache later before I finally submitted to God's working to correct me of my fault.

Purpose to the story:
You have a handful of people with whom you regularly converse pointing out one of your flaws.  Maybe it is so deep rooted you don't even believe it is there.  I would encourage you to not make the same mistake I did.

Good post Binaca.

My pastor has often said if you are with someone who always agrees with you than one of you are useless. Another pastor friend likened marriage as "heavenly sandpaper"...we help polish one another's rough spots. Now we were both much younger when he said that. I'm not exactly sure I would say it that way today but I get the concept.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Crickets

 

[lnf]

Does anyone know why ifbteaparty's member status line would say "guest"?

 

[myeyesareopen]

Does anyone know why ifbteaparty's member status line would say "guest"?

Good question...

 

[RAIDER]

Does anyone know why ifbteaparty's member status line would say "guest"?

I believe your status is determined by your number of posts.

 

[myeyesareopen]

Quote from: lnf on Today at 12:54:42 PM
Does anyone know why ifbteaparty's member status line would say "guest"?

I believe your status is determined by your number of posts.

I think there is more to it than that...there used to be an avatar with his picture and there are no statistics / info under his name. He may have either unjoined or logged out?

If you can't handle the heat...

 

[lnf]

That's what I was wondering, myeyesareopen.  Might he have been put in the nursery?  I don't know how we could tell, if that is the case.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

He is no longer found in member search.

Sadly, I think he chose to remove himself from the conversation where people were continuing to point out his flaws.  Who knows.  Maybe he is taking time out to do some soul searching and come back a better person.  For he and his bride's sake, I hope so. 

 

[Torrent v.2]

He is no longer found in member search.

Sadly, I think he chose to remove himself from the conversation where people were continuing to point out his flaws.  Who knows.  Maybe he is taking time out to do some soul searching and come back a better person.  For he and his bride's sake, I hope so.

Admin might have removed him.

 

[Vandal]

Either banned, or deleted the account...

 

[Evelyn]

This is an interesting thread.  A couple of weeks ago I had a conversation with a couple of ladies that knew I graduated from HAC.  Both of these ladies are married and have several children.  They had been following the Schaap situation and were asking if I had heard any updates.  During the discussion I said, "It's sad because the girl is the innocent victim".  Boy did I hit a nerve.  Both of them said in so many words, "Give me a break!  That girl is FAR from innocent". 

These gals feel that Schaap is a scumbag and think he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  They would agree with every negative thing about Schaap that has been posted on this thread.  On the other hand, they don't feel for a minute that this girl was brainwashed and wasn't a willing participant.  They feel that she knew exactly what she was doing and she had full opportunity to tell her parents or someone in authority.

Everyone has their opinion.  I thought this was a unique perspective from the female viewpoint.

Find some women who didn't graduate from HAC and ask them this same question.  HAC taught us (women) that it is ALWAYS the woman's fault, make no mistake about it.

I can't remember if you have kiddos or not.  Imagine your 16 year-old daughter (she was 16 when it started) being counseled by some guy your own age due to issues she was having, and then imagine yourself laying ANY blame at the feet of your daughter - who is still just a kid - if something like this happened.

 

[Evelyn]

  but the person i first latched onto.. literally clung to for life when i was trying to escape the abuses of my childhood....  and even adopted the family of as my own.. . is male..  .  i thank God for putting me in his care... and shudder to think what might have happened if i had ended up under control of someone like schaap. . . or if my new found father had not been the kind of man he is.. .. .  or even what would have happened to me if the people who abused me when i was a child had brought God into it like schaap did with the girl he abused.. ...  i can imagine many scenarios that would left me not able to trust in God or put my faith in him.. ...  or to be determined to finished what i tried to do to myself when i was 13....  ...  i know how overwhelmed i felt as a child being lied to .. coerced and enticed when God was not being brought into...  i can;t even imagine what it must be like for someone else.... even a few years older..

Aleshanee, you hit many great points with this post.  Every situation is individual, and as far as this girl's situation goes, with her troubled past she was RIPE for the pickings of someone like Schaap. 

It's not a matter of whether she was 16 years old or not.  This was someone who was already displaying destructive behaviors (stated by the school staff member in an e-mail to Schaap when the staff member was requesting counseling from Schaap for the girl).  She was hurt, broken, and acting out in self-destructive ways to the point that others were intervening on her behalf.  She didn't seek Schaap out.  She was sent to him.

Additionally, in Schaap's disgusting and blaphemous letters to the girl, he even mentions the girl asking him, "Is this right??"  where he then ASSURES HER that YES, it is right, and good, and she is the equivalent to the angels that ministered to Jesus.

Follow that up with the girl's father's letter which stated that he raised his children to believe that their pastor was God's representative/man on earth, and you have some serious pastoral/counselor manipulation going on in this girl's mind.

Further, in Schaap's letters, he mentions that he fell for her/became enamored with her the very FIRST TIME she came to him for counseling, and that he "pursued" her vigorously from that point.

So, you've got a broken and starving-for-real-love-and-affection girl handed over to a pervert, and folks are going to quibble over whether or not she was 16 and responsible?

<shaking my head>

 

[Evelyn]

i understand aleshanee   

i too have been very upset about this event with jack schaap and the young girl ever since it began

i never told anyone but

i am crying as i type this

i lost my innocence to a pedophile at the tender age of seven just shy of my eighth birthday

i am so sorry i never told anyone about this horrible event and have held it inside for so long for so many years till now

(((((((((((((hugs and warm thoughts sent to to you)))))))))))

I can imagine, that for a number of us, this is a painful topic.  I hope that you have come to a place of grace and healing in your life, dear lady.

 

[Evelyn]

Since Tim brought up the letters it has me asking how much did Cindy know? good point prophet on why wasn't she counseled by an older Godly lady in the church. I believe that's what we do..

Pride. When you look at the IFB world through the lens of FBC/HAC women can't do much. Schaap can do it all, and to relinquish counseling duties would be an attack on his manhood.

I also believe that he had a predatory spirit within him and tested many women that met with him until he found some inkling of positive feedback from someone that feeds  that spirit.

Brother, you speak truth.

 

[Evelyn]

tanks aleshanee for speaking to me   

i have been waiting and doubting if i had done the right thing in telling

i will say more a bit later

this is the first i have spoken of it to anyone

It's shocking to me that two young women have come forward on this forum and told their story of abuse............and to my knowledge not one pastor/minister or popular dude from HAC has even addressed it!!  [Maybe they have in a PM, and I'm just not aware of it.]

We are SO programmed in this IFB culture to ignore the freakin' obvious!!  These two women have not named any perp's names.  They haven't slandered anyone.  They have been brave enough to tell their story, but I'm not seein' the support they should be experiencing right now.  Come on, people.  What will it take for us to change?  Maybe you all are just careful because you are afraid that they might not be telling the truth.  I don't know.

I'm just simply saying, if someone comes forward in writing or just verbally tells you of some abuse....please listen to them and direct them to the proper counselors/prosecutors, etc.

I support you ladies, and I am so very sorry that you went through all of that.  Anybody else care to write some encouraging words to them? 

I hope it's not because it's easier to defer to a theological argument about Adam and Eve.

Wow. You just brought tears to my eyes and a deep lump in my throat - thank you for your thoughtful words.