The Marriage of David and Jonathan

[abcaines]

People don't seem to have a problem with the fact that David was a murderer or adulterer or schemer but that he possibly had a romantic relationship with another man: HADES no!

I think the problem is the disgust people have when the alphabet soup agenda tries to violently twist scriptures in order to justify their sin. Regardless of what that sin is. Who tries to justify adultery or murder by way of David's other sins?

Also, society has become so perverted that any suggestions of love between two people presupposes sex. I'm not a fan of much of what Ekkk posts but I think he nailed it when he said, "My love for Jesus is greater than my love for a woman.

Does that mean I'm gay?"

To infer from a declared love for our Lord as having the hots for Him... just thinking about someone going that far is beyond depraved. But I am afraid that is exactly where fleshly mindsets are headed.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I think the problem is the disgust people have when the alphabet soup agenda tries to violently twist scriptures in order to justify their sin. Regardless of what that sin is. Who tries to justify adultery or murder by way of David's other sons?

Also, society has become so perverted that any suggestions of love between two people presupposes sex. I'm not a fan of much of what Ekkk posts but I think he nailed it when he said, "My love for Jesus is greater than my love for a woman.

Does that mean I'm gay?"

To infer from a declared love for our Lord as having the hots for Him... just thinking about someone going that far is beyond deprived. But I am afraid that is exactly where fleshly mindsets are headed.

Thank you for saving me the typed words.

 

[ALAYMAN]

If the preacher said “this is a theory,” I’d be fine with it. If he said it’s factual, I’d be unhappy. It seems the rabbi or preacher or whoever it was that Smellin posted, was signaling it as theoretical. I understand people are losing their minds because David was called a “man after God’s heart,” but he also did some very wicked deeds.

This has zero to do with the words that you’re referring to regarding David being a man after Gods own heart. You are inferring things from scripture (namely that David was a homosexual) that are not warranted, period. That’s why I made the reference to child moleststation. That wouldn’t be warranted either.

 

[Gringo]

No one is trying to use David's murder or adultery to justify murder or adultery.

But they're using David's friendship with Jonathan to justify homosexuality.

The difference makes all the difference.

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I can only speak for me.

But unrelated to this thread, I have never said that homosexuality is ok or justified, biblically speaking. In fact, it was as a young person, that I realized that the Bible teaches that God turned his back on me (Rom 1) and that I did not qualify for the "Kingdom of God". I have never tried to make the Bible say something it doesn't say. Biblically speaking, I acknowledge that I would not go to the Bible's Heaven EVEN IF I somehow could make myself believe (I Cor 6:9).

As far as this thread goes, I, personally, am not saying that because Jonathan and David might have had a relationship, that that means that God approved. Certainly not. I would also point out that I did not start this thread. I'm simply responding to it. But I don't believe it does anyone any good to not accept what the Bible tells us. It makes a point to differentiate the relationship between them from others and I do believe it points to that of a romantic nature. That doesn't mean it's biblically ok any more than David killing someone or committing heterosexual adultry makes that ok.

There are so many things from the Bible that these days, some are trying to cast in a different light to make them fit with modern day beliefs and I think that's a mistake. One ought to face what the Bible teaches on whatever subject and not try to change what it says.

But on the other hand, one ought not ignore what it says, either.

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[Gringo]

I think the problem is the disgust people have when the alphabet soup agenda tries to violently twist scriptures in order to justify their sin. Regardless of what that sin is. Who tries to justify adultery or murder by way of David's other sins?

Also, society has become so perverted that any suggestions of love between two people presupposes sex. I'm not a fan of much of what Ekkk posts but I think he nailed it when he said, "My love for Jesus is greater than my love for a woman.

Does that mean I'm gay?"

To infer from a declared love for our Lord as having the hots for Him... just thinking about someone going that far is beyond depraved. But I am afraid that is exactly where fleshly mindsets are headed.

.
I don't believe this for one second. Please don't insult my intelligence. What a stupid statement, coming from that Ek person who couldn't resist talking about "goats" - a gay term meaning a vulgar thing.

You can tell other more foolish people that you love someone you can't see, can't touch, can't talk to, can't interact with - more than you love you wife. But please don't tell me that. I'm not buying. And it's offensive for you to bring in Jesus in a homosexual way when NO one is inferring such a thing. What stupidity.
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[abcaines]

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I don't believe this for one second. Please don't insult my intelligence. What a stupid statement, coming from that Ek person who couldn't resist talking about "goats" - a gay term meaning a vulgar thing.

You can tell other more foolish people that you love someone you can't see, can't touch, can't talk to, can't interact with - more than you love you wife. But please don't tell me that. I'm not buying. And it's offensive for you to bring in Jesus in a homosexual way when NO one is inferring such a thing. What stupidity.
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I'm glad to see such an illustration riled you up. It should rile all of us up or make us sick.

I think (I could be wrong) Ekkk was trying to make a point by taking societal perversion to its fullest conclusion.

Like you, I'm not usually a fan of things he says but if that is what he was getting at, then I can relate. If I'm wrong in my assessment of his post, I'll take the quote out and retract what I said about it.

 

[Starlifter]

If David and Jonathan had that kind of relationship, I am certain that Samuel would have had something to say about it.
No doubt God would have revealed it to him.
God never pulls any punches in revealing the wickedness and shortcomings of even the best of His servants in God's Word.
God never trifled with Sodomy and I do not believe He would have put up with it in David's life.
Just my .02.

 

[ALAYMAN]

.
I don't believe this for one second. Please don't insult my intelligence. What a stupid statement, coming from that Ek person who couldn't resist talking about "goats" - a gay term meaning a vulgar thing.

You can tell other more foolish people that you love someone you can't see, can't touch, can't talk to, can't interact with - more than you love you wife. But please don't tell me that. I'm not buying. And it's offensive for you to bring in Jesus in a homosexual way when NO one is inferring such a thing. What stupidity.
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You don’t think that a Christian legitimately loves Christ more than his/her spouse?

 

[ALAYMAN]

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I can only speak for me.

But unrelated to this thread, I have never said that homosexuality is ok or justified, biblically speaking. In fact, it was as a young person, that I realized that the Bible teaches that God turned his back on me (Rom 1) and that I did not qualify for the "Kingdom of God".

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Nope, as long as you have breath in your lungs He has not “turned His back on you”. Don’t reject Him Gringo.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

As far as this thread goes, I, personally, am not saying that because Jonathan and David might have had a relationship, that that means that God approved. Certainly not. I would also point out that I did not start this thread. I'm simply responding to it. But I don't believe it does anyone any good to not accept what the Bible tells us. It makes a point to differentiate the relationship between them from others and I do believe it points to that of a romantic nature. That doesn't mean it's biblically ok any more than David killing someone or committing heterosexual adultry makes that ok.

Thank you. This pretty much sums up everything I was saying/trying to say. I never imagined that our virtual Christian friends would bend over in agony at the mere theory that David might’ve had an improper friendship with Jonathan, but the whole murder/adultery thing seems to be a badge of honor because it involved the motive of a woman.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Once upon a time, a young man believed he was dead. For months, his friends and family tried desperately to convince him that this was not the case, but to no avail. Finally, at their wits end, they decided to take him to see the family doctor in hopes that he could offer some sort of medical counsel to help the young man come to his senses. After two unproductive hours of talking with the young man and reasoning with him using the latest medical journals, charts, and photos, the good doctor had an idea! “Son, do dead men bleed?” He asked. The young man thought for a moment and then responded, “well, if a person is dead, there is no heartbeat to pump the blood and, therefore, no blood pressure to force the blood out of the body, so, no, dead men do not bleed.” Upon hearing this, the doctor took a needle and pricked the young man’s index finger. As the blood began to ooze from the small wound, the young man grabbed his finger and cried with great excitement, “well, what do you know! Dead men DO bleed after all!”

 

[aleshanee]

If David and Jonathan had that kind of relationship, I am certain that Samuel would have had something to say about it.
No doubt God would have revealed it to him.
God never pulls any punches in revealing the wickedness and shortcomings of even the best of His servants in God's Word.
God never trifled with Sodomy and I do not believe He would have put up with it in David's life.
Just my .02.

exactly right..... as God;s Word the bible does not hide sin... and i was just about to use a phrase about scripture not pulling punches when i saw you mention it first..... .... davids sins of murder and adultry were clearly exposed and written about... if he had committed another grevious sin... such as what is being suggested here... that would have been exposed and written about as well....

i know a lot of combat veterans.... marines who fought side by side together and faced death together - and buried fallen brothers in arms together.... . . they have a bond between them that other people cannot possibly understand unless they have faced similar things.... and yes sometimes that bond is stronger than any love they have for their own families... ..but there is no romance involved in it at all.... . that is the kind of relationship i see jonathan and david having..... ..a bond forged by fire and blood that is stronger than the bond between 2 natural brothers..... ...

and that is what the author in 1st samuel was talking about when he mentioned jonathan giving david his tunic.. his sword and even his bow.... he wasn;t just giving david clothing.... he was giving david the tunic of a kings son and the weapons prepared for a kings son too.... he was showing israel that he was making david his brother... and not just a brother but also a brother in arms.... ...... not his wife....

 

[Gringo]

Nope, as long as you have breath in your lungs He has not “turned His back on you”. Don’t reject Him Gringo.

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(Answer to

Nope, as long as you have breath in your lungs He has not “turned His back on you”. Don’t reject Him Gringo.

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(Answer to TWO posts)

No, I don't believe that you can or should love Christ more than your spouse.

Jesus Christ, the Bible teaches us, is the virgin born Son of God, the 2nd person of the Godhead. He now sits at the right hand of God. He is one to be worshipped. His Father, Jehovah, put in place a higharchy whereby you were given a helpmeet. It is that person to whom you should love and cling to. It is God and his Son to whom you should bow down to and worship. You've mentioned "Orthodox Christianity" to me in the past. I think one should be far more concerned with what the Bible actually teaches than what those in authority and publishers of books tell us it teaches. Case in point, Jonathan and David. Also this idea of a "relationship" with Jesus. You can't see Him. You can't hear Him. You can't feel Him. You can't interact with Him, with Him verbally responding to you. But you love him and have a relationship with Him? I think you should bow down to him, thank Him for the redemptive work He did on the cross, acknowledge Him as your Savior and seek to obey the scriptures that the Third person of the Godhead dictated to the writers but that you should concentrate your earthly existence on loving your spouse and being her helpmeet. I was never able to find in the Bible where we are supposed to have a "relationship" with Him. I did, however, find where we are to Believe in Him and acknowledge his Work on the Cross as our remedy.

I'm not rejecting God. I've bowed down many times and prayed to God. I've acknowledged to Him many times that He's the Creator of the Universe, the One True God. When I did believe in such things, I asked His Son to apply his Work on the Cross to my sin debt. But somehow, my belief in an afterlife and a horrendous place where the worm dieth not and an blessed place full of streets of gold, has left me.

But back to your wife, even if you do, somehow, love Christ more than her, please don't tell me such a thing. I don't want to hear it. And I certainly don't want to be asked if loving Christ means you are a homosexual.
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[Gringo]

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I'm going to get out my Bible and REread the story of Jonathan and David in I Samuel . . . right now.
.

 

[Gringo]

Once upon a time, a young man believed he was dead. For months, his friends and family tried desperately to convince him that this was not the case, but to no avail. Finally, at their wits end, they decided to take him to see the family doctor in hopes that he could offer some sort of medical counsel to help the young man come to his senses. After two unproductive hours of talking with the young man and reasoning with him using the latest medical journals, charts, and photos, the good doctor had an idea! “Son, do dead men bleed?” He asked. The young man thought for a moment and then responded, “well, if a person is dead, there is no heartbeat to pump the blood and, therefore, no blood pressure to force the blood out of the body, so, no, dead men do not bleed.” Upon hearing this, the doctor took a needle and pricked the young man’s index finger. As the blood began to ooze from the small wound, the young man grabbed his finger and cried with great excitement, “well, what do you know! Dead men DO bleed after all!”

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In other words, I've made up my mind?
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[ALAYMAN]

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In other words, I've made up my mind?
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That was for Huk.

And just curious, would you like any feedback on the previous post? I’d be glad to respond to it, but it was lengthy and deeply theological, requiring a lengthy response but I don’t want to waste your time if you’re not interested in some meatier back-and-forth.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

I’m done with this topic. One person can say he most definitely did not have an improper relationship with Jonathan, another can say he did, another can say he might have, and another can say it was a metaphor for a brotherly relationship. No one actually knows anything for sure….

 

[ALAYMAN]

I’m done with this topic. One person can say he most definitely did not have an improper relationship with Jonathan, another can say he did, another can say he might have, and another can say it was a metaphor for a brotherly relationship. No one actually knows anything for sure….

So as a professed evangelical bible-believing Christian you are arguing that based on what the Bible does NOT say that we should accept or consider it possible that the Bible demonstrates a normative/acceptable homosexual relationship?

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

So as a professed evangelical bible-believing Christian you are arguing that based on what the Bible does NOT say that we should accept or consider it possible that the Bible demonstrates a normative/acceptable homosexual relationship?

Nope. I’m saying the Bible doesn’t list every sin committed by people in the Bible. If we’re going to strictly go by the standard of what the Bible says and doesn’t say, it seems 99% of the content on this forum would disappear, starting with the myriad of posts about Calvinism.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Don’t the people complaining about him have the same right to post their thoughts and opinions as he does? At least until you purchase your own forum and invite us to post our drivel there.

Sure, but last I checked, he wasn’t calling for anyone to be banished from the forum, hence my comment. Capeesh?