The Old Paths

[Walt]

The Old-Paths

I believe we should be students of the Bible. I believe we should be well read. But what does ?well read? mean? Do I need to read books from men who have questionable doctrines and ministry philosophies contrary to my own? Why are we so desperate to do so? How does that help us in our ministries? If we can read a book from an ecumenical or evangelical source and ?eat the fish and spit out the bones? is that wise? I guess my follow up question would be to those who practice this philosophy, would you read books from men who follow what you deem to be the old-paths and do the same? Read?read?read but be careful what you recommend to younger men who may not be as ready or as mature as you. They may choke on the bones.

I believe that a balance is needed here.  The Bible speaks of babes in Christ, who should desire the sincere milk of the word to grow, but also discusses those who are mature, who should be able to handle meat.

I think it is dangerous to only and always read people who agree with you.  At the same time, we are only given so much time in the day, and there are some things that aren't really worth taking the time to read.

 

[Walt]

The Old-Paths

B. Modesty

If I had a dime for every time I have been called a legalist I could buy another bus for our bus ministry. I believe the Scripture is clear in relation to dress standards?modesty and distinction. Every preacher, every ministry and every Christian has some level of dress standards. So let?s not deceive ourselves regarding this topic. As old-paths preachers our first desire for men and women in our churches is that we have a heart for God and have a Christ-like spirit. Our yieldedness to the Lord in this area simply reveals our heart. Ask yourself this question, how is your spirit when you discuss the area of dress standards? Are you defensive or are you yielded to whatever the Lord would have you to do? Why should a ministry support and promote men who change in this area? And finally why would those who do not hold to these dress standards demand that we accept their decisions and extend to them the liberty to make such decisions but not respect our decision to keep our dress standards where they have always been. You simply can?t have it both ways.

The problem is that those with "dress standards" so often mock and ridicule those who don't hold to their standards, and imply that they are un-spiritual and not right with God.  Modesty is a matter of the heart as much as anything else.  The Scriptures clearly tell all Christians to dress modestly; the problem (in my opinion) is when leaders undertake to define modesty on behalf of the people instead of encouraging them to ask the Holy Spirit to reveal what is modest.

 

[Walt]

The Old-Paths

C. Methods

I have had numerous conversations on social media about door to door soul winning and tools of evangelism. And while we debate the JWs and Mormons are gleaning the harvest we should be reaping. I am concerned when churches close their bus ministries down and discontinue their Sunday Schools. I am concerned when churches cancel Sunday evening services. Sunday nights should be one of the most vibrant and spiritually challenging services as your church family gathers under the preaching of the word of God. At WBC, our Sunday night services are ?prime time? as dozens of workers who have been spread throughout the ministry join to worship the Lord together!

In our suspicious day and age, I don't think going door-to-door is very effective.  What is annoying is to hear preachers rail against others that don't do things using the same methods they do.  When people where often out on their porches, and people visited one another all the time, finding open doors was simple.  We need to figure out what is the equivalent in our time.

Ditto for buses; I grew up in a country church - they couldn't afford to run a bus to the farms; instead, members gave rides to other people.  Was it wrong for them to not have a bus route?  I don't think so.

I especially enjoy the Sun night services. It gives a chance for people who have to work on Sunday mornings to attend, and it often has a relaxed, "family" atmosphere.  However, the Bible doesn't tell us to have services at 10:00 Sun morning and 6:30 Sun night.  This should be up to each church, without having to put up with other churches/pastors criticizing them.  Some churches in our area, when gasoline became very expensive, changed to hold a Sun AM meeting, then had dinner on the grounds, and then had a later service in the mid-afternoon, and then they would go home.  I cannot find a reason to condemn such actions.

 

[Walt]

The Old-Paths

The moral failures of men like Jack Schaap do not define our movement. They simply show how susceptible we are to destruction if we are not sober and vigilant. His collapse as a leader, as a husband and as a Christian should drive all of us to reflection. I was angry like many when the news of Jack Schaap was revealed. I was disgusted by his behavior and frankly he has reaped what he has sown. But our desire should be restoration not ridicule.

Every pastor should be held accountable by his brethren. The warning signs with Jack Schaap were everywhere yet his staff and his closest friends did not challenge his direction. We cannot move forward with this mentality. We owe each other the truth. When our friends in the ministry are heading in an unhealthy direction ? say something. For the sake of a new generation of pastors, we must protect our marriages and ministries from moral failures.

The reason he wasn't challenged go back to something you didn't want to talk about -- the unscriptural teachings about leadership taught to the members of that church. The pastor was, according to Jack Hyles, supposed to be the unquestioned leader.  This is certainly NOT Scriptural, but the membership and staff had been drenched in that false teaching, so members & staff thought that it was wrong to correct the pastor.

 

[Recovering IFB]

There were paths older than 1830? Before Scofield?

 

[subllibrm]

Why don't the old paths guys speak like the KJV is written? Letting all those worldly language changes into their vocabulary can't be good.

 

[T-Bone]

Why don't the old paths guys speak like the KJV is written? Letting all those worldly language changes into their vocabulary can't be good.

Better yet, why do the KJVO preachers say that the KJV is the only inspired version, needs no updating, needs no modernization to be understood...then spend their entire sermon explaining what the KJV is saying in modern vernacular, because their people don't understand a version that needs no updating to be understood?

 

[brianb]

Why don't the old paths guys speak like the KJV is written? Letting all those worldly language changes into their vocabulary can't be good.

Better yet, why do the KJVO preachers say that the KJV is the only inspired version, needs no updating, needs no modernization to be understood...then spend their entire sermon explaining what the KJV is saying in modern vernacular, because their people don't understand a version that needs no updating to be understood?

Some would be fine with an update if that's all it was. The ones they have out now though go beyond changing for example hath to has.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Why don't the old paths guys speak like the KJV is written? Letting all those worldly language changes into their vocabulary can't be good.

Better yet, why do the KJVO preachers say that the KJV is the only inspired version, needs no updating, needs no modernization to be understood...then spend their entire sermon explaining what the KJV is saying in modern vernacular, because their people don't understand a version that needs no updating to be understood?

Some would be fine with an update if that's all it was. The ones they have out now though go beyond changing for example hath to has.

It's gross hypocrisy.

How can you call a KJV that has been stripped of 14 books that the translators put just as much work into as the other 66 a KJV Bible?

A real AV1611 has 80 books.

Check it out in the real Old Paths Bible. Hypocrites all.

http://sceti.library.upenn.edu/sceti/printedbooksNew/index.cfm?TextID=kjbible&PagePosition=36

 

[wtyson]

Define OLD.

Unless your "path" goes back to Jeremiah then it is "newer" than the one he was talking about.

I believe I described "old" in the article...

Old paths are simply applying biblical principles in our modern day or generation.

 

[wtyson]

I personally think this is a lot of wishful thinking just like people today who want to define the term 'fundamentalist'. It is not usually historic fundamentalism but has evolved and become something different to each group that defines it.

Same with 'old paths'. The modern 'old path' adherent usually only goes back to the 1950's even though they give lip service to Spurgeon, Calvin, Whitfield, etc.

As I mentioned, I believe old paths are not tied to a man or men but rather principles rooted in Scripture.

 

[wtyson]

I believe that you cherry picked a phrase from Scripture and apart from any of the "old paths" of the traditionally received principles of exegesis, imposed a meaning upon the text that quite simply is not there.

Thank you for this...can you share what you believe is the proper interpretation of this portion of Scripture?

 

[wtyson]

I am starting to think that legalism is the wrong term.

Idolatry makes more sense.

In what way? My hope is in Christ and the Scripture is my guide. I do not intend to fall to idolatry in anyway. Would appreciate you further explaining this comment.

 

[wtyson]

Let's start with these old paths ... "thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself." and "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me."

Amen! God give us ministries and people who love the Saviour and care for the needy!

 

[wtyson]

Or ... maybe we should focus on this old path ... "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

How many Churches today have a discipleship program? How many sit down and take a newly repented soul and teach them like a school child?

Too many focus on the "go" as if we are already apostles or something.

The Great Commission is not finished when someone receives Christ, it has just begun. May we all be focused on the importance of discipleship. Thank you for the reminder!

 

[wtyson]

The Old-Paths

The Bible says in the book of Jeremiah 6:16, ?Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, we will not walk therein.? Now some of you read the title and read this verse and have already labeled me as hermeneutically dishonest. But can we agree that in Jeremiah 6 we find Jeremiah encouraged and challenged to follow the right way that is to follow the well-established and time tested old-paths? Can we agree that in the Christian life there is a right path and a wrong path?

Well, technically, there would be ONE right path and many wrong paths.

If you are not following Christ you are following a single path that leads to destruction. 

 

[wtyson]

So far, I'm enjoying the post...

The Old-Paths

Denominational politics are unavoidable. It happens no matter what camp you may be in or what field of vocation you pursue. There is a constant ebb and flow to the ministry. I have experienced this myself with individuals who have left our ministry who continue to interfere and sow discord. We would all help ourselves and improve our spirits if we looked forward and not backwards. I appreciate Dr. Hyles but I don?t need to hear another story about his failures.

I can be thankful for souls truly regenerated under his ministry, and the people who received something good in the way of training from him, or from his schools.

But, I have serious reservations with those who quote him without providing warnings or those who exalt him.

There is much controversy and disagreement about the testimony of JH. I am thankful for anyone and any ministry that shares the glorious gospel and sees people saved regardless if I may disagree with them on areas of discipleship or practical application of Scriptural principles.

 

[wtyson]

The Old-Paths

B. Modesty

If I had a dime for every time I have been called a legalist I could buy another bus for our bus ministry. I believe the Scripture is clear in relation to dress standards?modesty and distinction. Every preacher, every ministry and every Christian has some level of dress standards. So let?s not deceive ourselves regarding this topic. As old-paths preachers our first desire for men and women in our churches is that we have a heart for God and have a Christ-like spirit. Our yieldedness to the Lord in this area simply reveals our heart. Ask yourself this question, how is your spirit when you discuss the area of dress standards? Are you defensive or are you yielded to whatever the Lord would have you to do? Why should a ministry support and promote men who change in this area? And finally why would those who do not hold to these dress standards demand that we accept their decisions and extend to them the liberty to make such decisions but not respect our decision to keep our dress standards where they have always been. You simply can?t have it both ways.

The problem is that those with "dress standards" so often mock and ridicule those who don't hold to their standards, and imply that they are un-spiritual and not right with God.  Modesty is a matter of the heart as much as anything else.  The Scriptures clearly tell all Christians to dress modestly; the problem (in my opinion) is when leaders undertake to define modesty on behalf of the people instead of encouraging them to ask the Holy Spirit to reveal what is modest.

I do not believe we should mock or ridicule but should stand on what we believe the Scripture teaches. Personally, I have experienced much more ridicule and scorn from those on the "other side" of this issue than I have ever seen from those who have "standards"
Shouldn't leaders lead in all areas of the Scripture. It seems as though there is an expectation that pastors should be silent on the issue of modesty and distinction. I believe we should preach the whole counsel of God.

 

[Mathew Ward]

The Old-Paths

B. Modesty

If I had a dime for every time I have been called a legalist I could buy another bus for our bus ministry. I believe the Scripture is clear in relation to dress standards?modesty and distinction. Every preacher, every ministry and every Christian has some level of dress standards. So let?s not deceive ourselves regarding this topic. As old-paths preachers our first desire for men and women in our churches is that we have a heart for God and have a Christ-like spirit. Our yieldedness to the Lord in this area simply reveals our heart. Ask yourself this question, how is your spirit when you discuss the area of dress standards? Are you defensive or are you yielded to whatever the Lord would have you to do? Why should a ministry support and promote men who change in this area? And finally why would those who do not hold to these dress standards demand that we accept their decisions and extend to them the liberty to make such decisions but not respect our decision to keep our dress standards where they have always been. You simply can?t have it both ways.

The problem is that those with "dress standards" so often mock and ridicule those who don't hold to their standards, and imply that they are un-spiritual and not right with God.  Modesty is a matter of the heart as much as anything else.  The Scriptures clearly tell all Christians to dress modestly; the problem (in my opinion) is when leaders undertake to define modesty on behalf of the people instead of encouraging them to ask the Holy Spirit to reveal what is modest.

I do not believe we should mock or ridicule but should stand on what we believe the Scripture teaches. Personally, I have experienced much more ridicule and scorn from those on the "other side" of this issue than I have ever seen from those who have "standards"
Shouldn't leaders lead in all areas of the Scripture. It seems as though there is an expectation that pastors should be silent on the issue of modesty and distinction. I believe we should preach the whole counsel of God.

Define modesty.

 

[bgwilkinson]

I personally think this is a lot of wishful thinking just like people today who want to define the term 'fundamentalist'. It is not usually historic fundamentalism but has evolved and become something different to each group that defines it.

Same with 'old paths'. The modern 'old path' adherent usually only goes back to the 1950's even though they give lip service to Spurgeon, Calvin, Whitfield, etc.

As I mentioned, I believe old paths are not tied to a man or men but rather principles rotted in Scripture.

Surely you don't mean that. "Rotted", though some of those guys are certainly rotten.