The Old Paths

[Bruh]

I really don't like to argue or take Pastor Tyson to task. He along with Tom Brennan, have  been by far the most cordial people on here.

But, here is a tweet from one of his cohorts:

Bad preaching makes a better you;
Bible preaching makes a deader you.

What are we supposed to make of this? All the while decrying entertainment, tv, sports, etc.

That one has me scratching my head as well...
Not sure what the context is there...

I can assure you my "cohorts" don't get their tweets pre-approved by me. LOL My DM box is full of those who question me regularly on my positions and stance. I have always tried to answer questions and continue dialogue.  The schedule is full so sometimes it takes time to respond!

What kind of context would make that Twitter post acceptable?

 

[Walt]

I would say that Twitter posts to the effect that "I'm a better pastor/evangelist than you are" (by overt bragging about results/numbers) is un-Christian for a couple of reasons:
1) Though the poster may not want to sound braggadocios, it came come across that way and it (dangerously) encourages pride
2) There is no example of any pastor or missionary in the New Testament giving numbers; the numbers we have were provided by the Holy Spirit.

How does one share God's blessings without sounding as if we're bragging about ourselves -- typical post: "Praise God! We had 50 teens out soul-winning and saw 500 saved"

While any of us would be susceptible to prideful posts I am encouraged by the reports of folks being saved.

Unfortunately, I have seen far too much of the quick prayerism, or the 1-2-3 pray-after-me salvations to put much stock AT ALL in such claims.  Too many bus routes where teens made up numbers.  Too many adults padding their numbers.  Too many children who were "saved" 10 or more times. Too many "contests" that nearly resulted in fights among supposedly mature Christians.  Let's not be so hasty to claim "salvation" unless there is some evidence of new life.  How about counting those who get saved, get baptized, and start attending church?  That would give a much better number, if we wish to count at all.

I am thrilled for anyone who is genuinely saved.  But there is far too much witchcraft in current salvation - the idea that saying a prayer is some kind of magic shield to get one to heaven.

It seems like IFB critics are always saying fundamentalism is dying yet when IFB preachers share exciting news of growth and souls saved it is greeted with criticism rather than rejoicing.

As far as the NT example, I believe we should certainly be aware of our intentions, I agree, but it is not unscriptural to share with the world what God is doing in a ministry.

Agreed, but the focus on numbers I see is unhealthy.

Would you rejoice if 50 teenagers were out soul winning at your church? I would. Souls saved...without apology. There is a great deal of presumption being made of IFB preachers and what they post. Are some prideful, sure, all of them, no way.

I would absolutely rejoice over 1 or 50 teens who go out to spread the gospel... but if I posted it at all, I'd try to post it in such a way that I didn't post numbers, and I will not declare that someone was saved so easily.  Some people are natural-born salesman and can talk people into saying a prayer without any true change of heart.  I don't want such people to think that they are heaven-bound because of words that they uttered.  I know that the current fashion to not make this error is to report so many "professions of faith".  I still think we obsess too much over numbers.

I will continue to share what God is doing in our ministry because I rejoice in what God is doing. I am thankful for the hard working volunteers. I get the privilege of pastoring my heroes. When something exciting is happening, I am going to share it...when it is happening somewhere else, I will rejoice with them as well.

I'm always excited to hear of a work God has done, and it is great to read of His work in other areas.

 

[subllibrm]

I was asked to explain my use of the word idolatry earlier in this thread. Note my post with the dress standards used a a measure of one's spiritual condition (if not to question one's salvation, though it sure seems close to that).

That list is at risk of becoming a false God:
"If I only dress like this I will be okay."
"If I miss one of these guidelines, I am probably not even saved."
"I had better follow these rules so that I know that I am saved."
"Oh great list of holy conformity, show me the way."
"I made it through the day without violating the list."
"I am so thankful that I am not like those ahem, christians who don't live by this list."

Take your pick, it is either legalistic sanctification or idolatrous sanctification. Cause it ain't biblical sanctification.

The silence is deafening.

 

[subllibrm]

<snip>

I fully agree.  Usually, it is the "other side" that mocks us as if we think our standards make us closer to God. I've heard that.

But I have also heard church leaders say, disparagingly of others: "<sniff> Well, they don't have OUR standards" -- as if "OUR" standards are the only right ones and the ones not  following OUR camp are not worth notice.

Turn those around and see what is there. Never mind, I will do it for you:

"<sniff> Well, they don't have OUR standards" -- as if "OUR" standards are the only right ones and the ones not  following OUR camp are not worth notice.

... mocks us as if we think our standards make us closer to God. [BTW it isn't as if with many of them.]

The mocking (more like disagreeing) is a reaction to the mindset you point out.

So if you don't like people judging and disagreeing with your "standards" quit trying to make your brothers and sisters in Christ adhere to them.

And before someone says "no one thinks that way" let me share this:

Gentleman's Code Of Conduct:

It is not too much for us to ask that you dress like a Christian. These are not suggestions these will be strictly enforced.
Dress clothes are requested for the evening service which includes a collared shirt.
Pants are to be worn on the waist. (Belt preferred)
No sweat pants. Cut-offs or shorts allowed FOR SWIMMING ONLY
No shirts with questionable pictures or emblems or words.
No see-through or mesh-like material shirts.
No sleeveless shirts.
No mod or faddish style clothing.
No earrings or necklaces.
Hair must be off the ears and collar. No rat tails.
Shoes must maintain nice appearance.

Ladies  Code Of Conduct:

It is not too much for us to ask that you dress like a Christian. These are not suggestions these will be strictly enforced.
Dress clothes are requested for evening services: dresses or skirts.
Modest clothing is loose fitting clothing that covers all skin from the knee to the shoulders.
No sun dresses with narrow straps or low necklines or low backs.
Modest loose fitting tops, blouses, skirts and skirt-type culottes.
No shorts, miniskirts, or pants of any kind.
Skirts, dresses, and culottes must touch the floor when kneeling.
No slits above the knee.
Modest one-piece bathing suits.
No sleeveless tops.
No mod or faddish style clothing.

Does this not say that to dress otherwise is to dress unlike a Christian? Like it or not, this makes adherence to the stated standards a measure of one's spiritual condition.

More silence.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

There wasn't an altar call when Sheffey was saved.............. or at least that's the way it was in the movie... 'er I mean film.

 

[Twisted]

The "old paths" are alive in Africa!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dors_zGu7yA

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

The "old paths" are alive in Africa!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dors_zGu7yA

Hit the "Like" button here.

 

[BALAAM]

I really don't like to argue or take Pastor Tyson to task. He along with Tom Brennan, have  been by far the most cordial people on here.

But, here is a tweet from one of his cohorts:

Bad preaching makes a better you;
Bible preaching makes a deader you.

What are we supposed to make of this? All the while decrying entertainment, tv, sports, etc.

That one has me scratching my head as well...
Not sure what the context is there...

I can assure you my "cohorts" don't get their tweets pre-approved by me. LOL My DM box is full of those who question me regularly on my positions and stance. I have always tried to answer questions and continue dialogue.  The schedule is full so sometimes it takes time to respond!

FWIW, this is from the guy you preached for last weekend. I am sure you can ask him.

 

[subllibrm]

The "old paths" are alive in Africa!

I didn't see a pair of culottes or denim jumpers anywhere in the video. Maybe it isn't the old paths but the preaching of Jesus that does it.

 

[sword]

The "old paths" are alive in Africa!

I didn't see a pair of culottes or denim jumpers anywhere in the video. Maybe it isn't the old paths but the preaching of Jesus that does it.

I would think from the oldest of old path(ers) to the most contemporary evangelical, they would all agree with that statement.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Regardless of our style of worship or choice of preferences may the principal thing be lifting him up for a lost world to see.

 

[wtyson]

<snip>

I fully agree.  Usually, it is the "other side" that mocks us as if we think our standards make us closer to God. I've heard that.

But I have also heard church leaders say, disparagingly of others: "<sniff> Well, they don't have OUR standards" -- as if "OUR" standards are the only right ones and the ones not  following OUR camp are not worth notice.

Turn those around and see what is there. Never mind, I will do it for you:

"<sniff> Well, they don't have OUR standards" -- as if "OUR" standards are the only right ones and the ones not  following OUR camp are not worth notice.

... mocks us as if we think our standards make us closer to God. [BTW it isn't as if with many of them.]

The mocking (more like disagreeing) is a reaction to the mindset you point out.

So if you don't like people judging and disagreeing with your "standards" quit trying to make your brothers and sisters in Christ adhere to them.

And before someone says "no one thinks that way" let me share this:

Gentleman's Code Of Conduct:

It is not too much for us to ask that you dress like a Christian. These are not suggestions these will be strictly enforced.
Dress clothes are requested for the evening service which includes a collared shirt.
Pants are to be worn on the waist. (Belt preferred)
No sweat pants. Cut-offs or shorts allowed FOR SWIMMING ONLY
No shirts with questionable pictures or emblems or words.
No see-through or mesh-like material shirts.
No sleeveless shirts.
No mod or faddish style clothing.
No earrings or necklaces.
Hair must be off the ears and collar. No rat tails.
Shoes must maintain nice appearance.

Ladies  Code Of Conduct:

It is not too much for us to ask that you dress like a Christian. These are not suggestions these will be strictly enforced.
Dress clothes are requested for evening services: dresses or skirts.
Modest clothing is loose fitting clothing that covers all skin from the knee to the shoulders.
No sun dresses with narrow straps or low necklines or low backs.
Modest loose fitting tops, blouses, skirts and skirt-type culottes.
No shorts, miniskirts, or pants of any kind.
Skirts, dresses, and culottes must touch the floor when kneeling.
No slits above the knee.
Modest one-piece bathing suits.
No sleeveless tops.
No mod or faddish style clothing.

Does this not say that to dress otherwise is to dress unlike a Christian? Like it or not, this makes adherence to the stated standards a measure of one's spiritual condition.

More silence.

What is the question?
Contrary to what may be thought...many do not sit at their computer anticipating the next FFF posts...

Silence may be that we are actually quite busy...

 

[wtyson]

The "old paths" are alive in Africa!

I didn't see a pair of culottes or denim jumpers anywhere in the video. Maybe it isn't the old paths but the preaching of Jesus that does it.

I would think from the oldest of old path(ers) to the most contemporary evangelical, they would all agree with that statement.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Regardless of our style of worship or choice of preferences may the principal thing be lifting him up for a lost world to see.

Thankful for anyone who comes to Christ regardless if I disagree with the method or process of discipleship.

Let us ALL rejoice in souls saved, EVEN those saved in oldpaths churches!!

 

[wtyson]

I really don't like to argue or take Pastor Tyson to task. He along with Tom Brennan, have  been by far the most cordial people on here.

But, here is a tweet from one of his cohorts:

Bad preaching makes a better you;
Bible preaching makes a deader you.

What are we supposed to make of this? All the while decrying entertainment, tv, sports, etc.

That one has me scratching my head as well...
Not sure what the context is there...

I can assure you my "cohorts" don't get their tweets pre-approved by me. LOL My DM box is full of those who question me regularly on my positions and stance. I have always tried to answer questions and continue dialogue.  The schedule is full so sometimes it takes time to respond!

FWIW, this is from the guy you preached for last weekend. I am sure you can ask him.

Did you take the time to read the Bible verses posted as well? My guess is not..it clarifies what the statement is about...

 

[subllibrm]

<snip>
What is the question?
Contrary to what may be thought...many do not sit at their computer anticipating the next FFF posts...

Silence may be that we are actually quite busy...

Interesting that you chose this one to reply to. You specifically asked me about my thoughts on legalism/idolatry and I answered. No response from you at all.

You have been silent on that and Walt has been silent on the ideas contained in "dressing like a Christian".

 

[Walt]

<snip>

I fully agree.  Usually, it is the "other side" that mocks us as if we think our standards make us closer to God. I've heard that.

But I have also heard church leaders say, disparagingly of others: "<sniff> Well, they don't have OUR standards" -- as if "OUR" standards are the only right ones and the ones not  following OUR camp are not worth notice.

Turn those around and see what is there. Never mind, I will do it for you:

"<sniff> Well, they don't have OUR standards" -- as if "OUR" standards are the only right ones and the ones not  following OUR camp are not worth notice.

... mocks us as if we think our standards make us closer to God. [BTW it isn't as if with many of them.]

The mocking (more like disagreeing) is a reaction to the mindset you point out.

So if you don't like people judging and disagreeing with your "standards" quit trying to make your brothers and sisters in Christ adhere to them.

And before someone says "no one thinks that way" let me share this:

Gentleman's Code Of Conduct:

It is not too much for us to ask that you dress like a Christian. These are not suggestions these will be strictly enforced.
Dress clothes are requested for the evening service which includes a collared shirt.
Pants are to be worn on the waist. (Belt preferred)
No sweat pants. Cut-offs or shorts allowed FOR SWIMMING ONLY
No shirts with questionable pictures or emblems or words.
No see-through or mesh-like material shirts.
No sleeveless shirts.
No mod or faddish style clothing.
No earrings or necklaces.
Hair must be off the ears and collar. No rat tails.
Shoes must maintain nice appearance.

Ladies  Code Of Conduct:

It is not too much for us to ask that you dress like a Christian. These are not suggestions these will be strictly enforced.
Dress clothes are requested for evening services: dresses or skirts.
Modest clothing is loose fitting clothing that covers all skin from the knee to the shoulders.
No sun dresses with narrow straps or low necklines or low backs.
Modest loose fitting tops, blouses, skirts and skirt-type culottes.
No shorts, miniskirts, or pants of any kind.
Skirts, dresses, and culottes must touch the floor when kneeling.
No slits above the knee.
Modest one-piece bathing suits.
No sleeveless tops.
No mod or faddish style clothing.

Does this not say that to dress otherwise is to dress unlike a Christian? Like it or not, this makes adherence to the stated standards a measure of one's spiritual condition.

I didn't really think this needed a reply.

I don't know where the standards came from. They look like perhaps dress standards for a youth camp, maybe, as they mention both evening services and swimming.

Yes, certainly to give this list a "dress like a Christian" implies that dressing any differently is not dressing like a Christian, and I would not recommend that this organization do that.  They should just state that these are their dress standards.

The standards seem okay, but following these rules doesn't make one a Christian, nor do they make us righteous.  An unregenerate person can dress modestly, but he is still unregenerate. A Christian who desires to please God will dress in such a way as to honor God; he will dress in a godly manner, seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He should be teachable, and evaluate teachings by the Scriptures.

 

[Bruh]

I heard a Hyles guy say behind the pulpit "a mother that wears pants can not be a godly mother".

 

[BALAAM]

In the mid 1600's a London Baptist pastor was roundly criticized and chastised for trying to lead his church to sing hymns instead of Psalms. They wrote books and pamphlets against him saying things like, "What will this eventually lead to?"

Look around you today. Most of the 'old paths' guys readily accept hymns in church services. They claim to be 'old paths' but really they are slowly removing the ancient landmarks.

Now, if you shake your head and think this is a ridiculous post, I agree. But, it is about as ridiculous as a lot of the rhetoric from the 'old paths' claimants.  IMO

 

[FSSL]

Old paths = 20 years behind

No denim in the 70s after it had been popular in the 50s

KJV only in the 70s after the RSV and AS were accepted by many fundamentalists in the 50s

No Steve Green in the 80s...

No pants on girls until 2000s

Calvinistic thinking promoted by fundamentalists in the 40s, booed by fundamentalists in the 70s, now gaining popularity again in the 90s

 

[sword]

Old paths = 20 years behind
No denim in the 70s after it had been popular in the 50s
KJV only in the 70s after the RSV and AS were accepted by many fundamentalists in the 50s
No Steve Green in the 80s...
No pants on girls until 2000s
Calvinistic thinking promoted by fundamentalists in the 40s, booed by fundamentalists in the 70s, now gaining popularity again in the 90s

Why do you guys care so much about someone else's standards. I may not agree with everything on that list or someone may not agree with anything on that list, but who cares. As independent churches each should practice their own standards. If you don't like a camps rules then stay home or choose a camp that is better aligned with your preferences & convictions.

We all have standards, some of which we enforce. For example if someone showed up for a church service wearing nothing, everyone of us would expect someone to enforce a modesty standard. If someone showed up on Sunday morning with a bucket of chicken and a half gallon of sweet tea to eat during the service the pastor will likely ask them to eat it somewhere else. If a family walked in with cymbals, a cow bell & a big bass drum to play during the song service they would likely be asked to refrain from playing during the service. These are all common sense standards. It's not a matter of having standards, its just a matter of setting them differently. 

 

[FSSL]

All I am doing is explaining what "old paths" really means.

There is nothing "old paths" about the 70s IFB movement. It does not reflect historical (i.e., old paths) Christianity. Rather, the movement progresses with the much of cultural Christianity, just 20 years behind.