The rich young ruler

[Recovering IFB]

Faith in what?

Faith in the promises of God. Ultimately, the promises of Scripture regarding Jesus Christ's ability to atone for sin.

It is a very interesting subject.  As I mentioned in a previous post, when I look at someone such as Moses or Noah we see great faith in God.  They followed the light they were given.  It makes me wonder how much of the redemptive plan that they know or understood.

Job 19:25-27
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he will stand at the latter day upon the earth:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.




Anishinaabe

Great verses from one of the oldest books in Scripture.  Job knew there would be a redeemer.  I wonder how much Job knew about His redemptive work?

Job fully trusted God
Job 16:19 Even now my witness is in heaven;
    my advocate is on high.

 

[Fresh Air]

There is too much fellowship and agreement going on in this thread. Somebody needs to insult somebody quick or else actual Christianity will break out around here...

 

[Ransom]

It is a very interesting subject.  As I mentioned in a previous post, when I look at someone such as Moses or Noah we see great faith in God.  They followed the light they were given.  It makes me wonder how much of the redemptive plan that they know or understood.

I think they understood the broad implications, if not the specifics.

These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. (Heb. 11:13)

When David reflected on the promises God made him in 2 Sam. 7:12-17 - see Psa. 89 or 2 Sam. 23:5, for example - it's clear that he saw the covenant as more than just the endurance of his dynasty. There was something permanent, unbreakable, need I say Messianic about his confidence in God's faithfulness.

 

[Bob H]

Depends on his motive..............................Maybe the "selling" part wasn't his main concern. Maybe it was the "follow me" part. He could of built up his fortune again.

The promise of "treasure in heaven" was given to selling and giving.  Question remains, if he had sold/given would that have been sufficient for "heaven"?

"...He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things I have kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me......"



We do know one thing, Jesus left one commandment out........the last one..................cause it would of condemned him on the spot. So we can conclude that money was his problem.  So the "IF" in your inquiry wasn't gonna happen. Period.   .........................

If he was willing to sell all...then there wouldn't of been a "LACK" and he wouldn't of came to Him to begin with cause money wouldn't of been his problem. Hope that doesn't muddy up things 

 

[Biblebeliever]

I love the sometimes overlooked statement in this Scripture:


Luke 9:28-36

King James Version (KJV)


28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Moses and Elijah knew that there sins had only been "covered".  They wanted to talk to Jesus about his final redemptive work.

Thanks for sharing this passage Raider. You definitely have a neat perspective concerning it.

 

[Biblebeliever]

Also Raider, it is unfortunate today; that many Christians attempt to explain away clear passages of Scripture in order to support their "historical position."

Some try to "greekify" a certain text of Scripture in an attempt to try to get it to teach something that it does not.

The approach of a Bible beliving Christian is to simply allow the Scriptures to interpret themselves. And when they read a text, they leave it as it stands.

 

[rsc2a]

Also Raider, it is unfortunate today; that many Christians attempt to explain away clear passages of Scripture in order to support their "historical position."

Some try to "greekify" a certain text of Scripture in an attempt to try to get it to teach something that it does not.

The approach of a Bible beliving Christian is to simply allow the Scriptures to interpret themselves. And when they read a text, they leave it as it stands.

Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Were you saying something?

 

[RAIDER]

There is too much fellowship and agreement going on in this thread. Somebody needs to insult somebody quick or else actual Christianity will break out around here...

If you don't agree with me on this issue you are a bunch of stinkin' liberal jerks!!  Now I feel better. 

 

[prophet]

Depends on his motive..............................Maybe the "selling" part wasn't his main concern. Maybe it was the "follow me" part. He could of built up his fortune again.

The promise of "treasure in heaven" was given to selling and giving.  Question remains, if he had sold/given would that have been sufficient for "heaven"?

"...He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things I have kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me......"



We do know one thing, Jesus left one commandment out........the last one..................cause it would of condemned him on the spot. So we can conclude that money was his problem.  So the "IF" in your inquiry wasn't gonna happen. Period.   .........................

If he was willing to sell all...then there wouldn't of been a "LACK" and he wouldn't of came to Him to begin with cause money wouldn't of been his problem. Hope that doesn't muddy up things 

Good points.

Anishinaabe

 

[Ransom]

Also Raider, it is unfortunate today; that many Christians attempt to explain away clear passages of Scripture in order to support their "historical position."

Heck, there are clowns who try to claim some Scriptures - even in the New Testament - belong to a different "dispensation" and so aren't applicable!  Can you believe that?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Tertullian in Against Marcion:

When afterwards " a certain man asked him, ' Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life ?'" [Jesus] inquired whether he knew (that is, in other words, whether he kept) the commandments of the Creator, in order to testify that it was by the Creator's precepts that eternal life is acquired. Then, when he affirmed that from his youth up he had kept all the principal commandments, [Jesus] said to him : " One thing thou yet lackest: sell all that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." Well now, Marcion, and all ye who are companions in misery, and associates in hatred with that heretic, what will you dare say to this? Did Christ rescind the forementioned commandments: " Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother?" Or did He both keep them, and then add what was wanting to them ? This very precept, however, about giving to the poor, was very largely diffused through the pages of the law and the prophets. This vainglorious observer of the commandments was therefore convicted of holding money in much higher estimation [than charity]. This verity of the gospel then stands unimpaired : " I am not come to destroy the law and the prophets, but rather to fulfil them." He also dissipated other doubts, when He declared that the name of God and of the Good belonged to one and the same being, at whose disposal were also the everlasting life and the treasure in heaven and Himself too—whose commandments He both maintained and augmented with His own supplementary precepts. He may likewise be discovered in the following passage of Micah, saying : " He hath showed thee, O man, what is good ; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to be ready to follow the Lord thy God ?" Now Christ is the man who tells us what is good, even the knowledge of the law. " Thou knowest," says He, " the commandments." " To do justly"— "Sell all that thou hast;" "to love mercy"—"Give to the poor;" " and to be ready to walk with God"—" And come," says He, " follow me."

http://books.google.com/books?id=HMIUAAAAQAAJ&dq=marcion&pg=PA332#v=onepage&q=marcion&f=false

 

[Biblebeliever]

Scott,  there are Scriptures in the New Testament which apply Doctrinally to different dispensations.


For instance;  Eph. 2:8-9 and Eph. 4:30 both apply Doctrinally to saints living in the Church Age.


Hebrews 3, 6, and 10 apply Doctrinally to Hebrews in the time of Jacob's trouble.


And Matthew 5 (beattitudes and sermon on the mount) applies Doctrinally for those living in the Millennial Kingdom. The beatittudes will be the law and constitution of the Millennial Kingdom.

 

[Ransom]

Scott,  there are Scriptures in the New Testament which apply Doctrinally to different dispensations.

To borrow your logic: Are not.

 

[rsc2a]

Pretty handy excuse when you claim that the words of Jesus aren't for us.

 

[Fresh Air]

And Matthew 5 (beattitudes and sermon on the mount) applies Doctrinally for those living in the Millennial Kingdom.

...that's awful, hermeneutically and practically.

 

[prophet]

Scott,  there are Scriptures in the New Testament which apply Doctrinally to different dispensations.


For instance;  Eph. 2:8-9 and Eph. 4:30 both apply Doctrinally to saints living in the Church Age.


Hebrews 3, 6, and 10 apply Doctrinally to Hebrews in the time of Jacob's trouble.


And Matthew 5 (beattitudes and sermon on the mount) applies Doctrinally for those living in the Millennial Kingdom. The beatittudes will be the law and constitution of the Millennial Kingdom.

Matthew 5 has a mission statement:

Mat 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He came to fulfill the role of Schoolmaster, til His Crucifixion.

Of course, the only righteousness that would exceed all of God' s laws, plus all of the Talmud's, was the Righteousness of Christ.  Matthew 5,6 & 7 are reiteration of the impossible- to- keep- law, to those who thought they were keeping it, and those who were led by them.

Jn 5:39
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life:and they are they which testify of me.

Anishinaabe

 

[Biblebeliever]

Here is a great Dispensational timeline and chart from Douglas D. Stuaffer's book: One Book Rightly Divided.

 

[prophet]

Here is a great Dispensational timeline and chart from Douglas D. Stuaffer's book: One Book Wrongly Divided.

Fixed it, for the Truth's sake.

Anishinaabe

 

[Biblebeliever]

And some other great Dispensational Charts and Timelines:

 

[Biblebeliever]

Pretty handy excuse when you claim that the words of Jesus aren't for us.

Well Did I ever say that Jesus' words were not for us?


All I said was Doctrinally, the sermon on the mount is pointed at Jews in the Millennial Kingdom.


What you need to understand is that while sermon on the mount is not for the Church Doctrinally, we can still learn a lot from it for instruction in righteousness.