The "stumbling block" of Calvinism

[Ransom]

See my third point. Its "REPLACED".... the TRUE stumbling block.

Instead, what if I just don't believe your third point, because it's moronic?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Not going to fight...I am not a Calvinist.  But every brother or sister I know who are Calvinist don't fit into your description.  They know they are saved by grace in Christ.  They are not waiting, but walking in the Lord.  They believe in the power of the cross.

But hey, that's just the Calvinist I know.

Can you explain to me HOW they know? Simple question.

A Calvinist believes a person can ask God millions of time to save him/her and it will not come unless God has chosen them from Eternity past.

They believe the Bible the same way I do.."His Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God".  That they believe that God must chose you from eternity does not equate that they cannot know they are saved. 

God has chosen us, He has called us, He has saved us, He has confirmed our salvation...I hold to this and every Calvinist I know holds to this too.

You don't have to be a the peace maker..... That's a good answer. However, lets see if that lines up with the teaching of Calvinism!

I know that its common for many to try and blend the two sides in fellowship with the Gospel..... but they are like "oil and water". They can't be blended.

John Gill wrote of the verse mentioned....

Now this witness of the Spirit is to establish and confirm it; not to make the thing itself surer, for that stands on the sure foundation of predestination,

 

[praise_yeshua]

"I'll take 'I don't understand Calvinism at all' for $200, Alex."

<~~ not a Calvinist.

See what I wrote to TB. You can stay out of the conversation if you're just going to say "I don't understand".... ALEX...

 

[praise_yeshua]

See my third point. Its "REPLACED".... the TRUE stumbling block.

Instead, what if I just don't believe your third point, because it's moronic?

Okay. Believe what you want. People generally do.

 

[Ransom]

Okay. Believe what you want. People generally do.

I didn't need your permission, so I'll do just that anyway.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Can you explain to me HOW they know? Simple question.

A Calvinist believes a person can ask God millions of time to save him/her and it will not come unless God has chosen them from Eternity past.

It's not asking God a million times, Jesus said all who come to him he would not cast out and all thy come to him are drawn by the Father, who replaces a heart of stone with one of flesh.
How do I know im saved? I heard the Gospel after hearing it many times in my life but one day, I heard it, everything became crystal clear. I once didn't care for God and now I do, I didn't do this on my own.

So... is it fair to say you believe that everyone that asks God to save them..... gets saved?... THUS... you have the proof of salvation in Calvinism?

Does Calvinism teach this?

 

[Ransom]

Does Calvinism teach this?

Hey yeshuaundivided, why do you have to ask? Don't you already know, since you have decided yet again to go on a self-important tirade about Calvinism?

I assume you wouldn't go off half-cocked on some subject you know nothing about. Right?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Okay. Believe what you want. People generally do.

I didn't need your permission, so I'll do just that anyway.

I wasn't giving permission. I was just agreeing with your right to your own conclusion.

Why do Calvinist see things things in such "two dimensional" ways.

 

[Ransom]

I was just agreeing with your right to your own conclusion.

Indeed, I do agree that my own conclusion is right. Thanks for the affirmation!

 

[praise_yeshua]

Does Calvinism teach this?

Hey yeshuaundivided, why do you have to ask? Don't you already know, since you have decided yet again to go on a self-important tirade about Calvinism?

I assume you wouldn't go off half-cocked on some subject you know nothing about. Right?

Why are my threads "self important" and your threads so "important"?

I'm not trying to be self important. That's your belief. Feel free to leave me to my own delusion. I knew you wouldn't like this thread. Then again, your lack of confidence in your condition and theology is rather obvious. Maybe I can help you???

 

[praise_yeshua]

I was just agreeing with your right to your own conclusion.

Indeed, I do agree that my own conclusion is right. Thanks for the affirmation!

All I ask is you apply this logically....equally....

 

[Ransom]

All I ask is you apply this logically....equally....

Apply what logically? The arguments in the OP?

As the computer folks say, garbage in, garbage out.

 

[praise_yeshua]

All I ask is you apply this logically....equally....

Apply what logically? The arguments in the OP?

As the computer folks say, garbage in, garbage out.

I should have written.... "logic equally".

I was referencing your own logic of...."I do agree that my own conclusion is right"

 

[Ransom]

I was referencing your own logic of...."I do agree that my own conclusion is right"

I equally agree that your conclusion is wrong.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I was referencing your own logic of...."I do agree that my own conclusion is right"

I equally agree that your conclusion is wrong.

Now you're getting three dimensional....

You might also..... apply your logic to the fact "I believe my conclusion is right".

You obviously know how petty such arguments are. You just enjoy wasting my time. You're just ignoring the fact.... you're wasting your own time as well. We can keep wasting OUR time if you like.....

 

[subllibrm]

Paradoxical situation does not equate to being untrue.

How do we reconcile "free will" over and against "elect of God"? We don't. We accept that both are true, a paradox beyond our ability to comprehend. See also: Jesus fully God and fully man.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Paradoxical situation does not equate to being untrue.

How do we reconcile "free will" over and against "elect of God"? We don't. We accept that both are true, a paradox beyond our ability to comprehend. See also: Jesus fully God and fully man.

Nonsense. Its not a Paradox found in the Scriptures. The Scriptures are true. Not Calvinism. Its getting more and more common for people to say such things. In fact, I know some very good men that refuse to deal with the subject at all.... because they have Calvinist friends it might offend.

I have perfectly explanation. In fact, I've tried to share it several times before here and I usually don't get far enough in the discussion to do so at any length. I'll share a little of the logical part of the argument.....

I would logically argue that...

It is impossible to create a creature in the "image of God" and deny that "image".... freewill. If you deny that "creature"....."freewill"..... then you have lost the very semblance of God.

 

[subllibrm]

Paradoxical situation does not equate to being untrue.

How do we reconcile "free will" over and against "elect of God"? We don't. We accept that both are true, a paradox beyond our ability to comprehend. See also: Jesus fully God and fully man.

Nonsense. Its not a Paradox found in the Scriptures. The Scriptures are true. Not Calvinism. Its getting more and more common for people to say such things. In fact, I know some very good men that refuse to deal with the subject at all.... because they have Calvinist friends it might offend.

I have perfectly explanation. In fact, I've tried to share it several times before here and I usually don't get far enough in the discussion to do so at any length. I'll share a little of it of the logical part of the argument.....

I would logically argue that...

It is impossible to create a creature in the "image of God" and deny that "image".... freewill. If you deny that "creature"....."freewill"..... then you have lost the very semblance of God.

Where did I say there wasn't a free will?

And could you explain how fully God/fully man is not a paradox? When you get a chance. I know you are a busy man. What with all the misrepresenting you have going on and all.

 

[rsc2a]

This assumes that God's will is "free".

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

"His Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God".

Give this man a cigar.