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Here is a Youtube on Worship... any thoughts?
Knowing vs. Feeling in Worship: http://youtu.be/KYNBdrFR5Bo
Knowing vs. Feeling in Worship: http://youtu.be/KYNBdrFR5Bo
Okay, admin, I'll bite!
I like Alistair Begg! However, he does at least four things in this video that really strike me as ... well CU calls it "stupid."
1) He cites 2 Corinthians 5:1 "For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands." He takes this bolded/underlined phrase and uses it to bash contemporary worship. What a stupid thing to do. Take a phrase out of context!!!
2) He does not like countdown clocks and songs that are repetitive. Instead, mocks screens with countdown clocks. Okay... whatever.
3) He goes after an opening line "How do you all feel this morning?" and asks, "What kind of NT question is that?" Well... sir, I Begg to differ! The church in Ephesus was challenged because it lacked feeling. They persevered against bad theology, YET, they left their first love. Knowledge AND Feeling are NOT separated in Scripture. Then he goes off 2:15 saying don't make me sing silly repetitive songs about expressing my feelings towards God it will make me go ambulatory. REALLY?! God is to be praised makes you go "ambulatory?!"
4) He then quotes a the beautiful early 1800s hymn "Praise, My Soul, the King of Heaven" Praise, my soul, the King of Heaven; To His feet thy tribute bring. Ransomed, healed, restored, forgiven,...
Mr. Begg... You don't know much about Christian Contemporary Songs! They are filled with the same themes! God ransoms, heals, restores, forgives!
Summary:
My biggest beef is that he takes a passage of Scripture, goes straight to an application that is hardly derived from that passage and gives his own uninformed opinion! I got the same kind of tripe from my 1970s IFB KJVO pastor.
I like Alistair Begg! However, he does at least four things in this video that really strike me as ... well CU calls it "stupid."
1) He cites 2 Corinthians 5:1 "For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands." He takes this bolded/underlined phrase and uses it to bash contemporary worship. What a stupid thing to do. Take a phrase out of context!!!
2) He does not like countdown clocks and songs that are repetitive. Instead, mocks screens with countdown clocks. Okay... whatever.
3) He goes after an opening line "How do you all feel this morning?" and asks, "What kind of NT question is that?" Well... sir, I Begg to differ! The church in Ephesus was challenged because it lacked feeling. They persevered against bad theology, YET, they left their first love. Knowledge AND Feeling are NOT separated in Scripture. Then he goes off 2:15 saying don't make me sing silly repetitive songs about expressing my feelings towards God it will make me go ambulatory. REALLY?! God is to be praised makes you go "ambulatory?!"
4) He then quotes a the beautiful early 1800s hymn "Praise, My Soul, the King of Heaven" Praise, my soul, the King of Heaven; To His feet thy tribute bring. Ransomed, healed, restored, forgiven,...
Mr. Begg... You don't know much about Christian Contemporary Songs! They are filled with the same themes! God ransoms, heals, restores, forgives!
Summary:
My biggest beef is that he takes a passage of Scripture, goes straight to an application that is hardly derived from that passage and gives his own uninformed opinion! I got the same kind of tripe from my 1970s IFB KJVO pastor.
subllibrm said:Someone is talking to himself. ???
Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
LOL! We posted simultaneously! No one responded... so, here we are! At a crossroads!
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LOL ;D
Great to have you back Chris, it's been a while!ALAYMAN said:
That's right, Al Mohler is back from vacation, so you finally have something to talk about.
ALAYMAN said:
Okay.... where am I wrong?
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FSSL said:
1) "to know", as he applied it, deals with awareness, which is based on the accurate perception of propositional truth. Knowledge ought to govern emotions, not the other way around.
2) Humor, it's a good thing, often used in an introductory speech/lecture/sermon to win the crowd/audience so that you might have their attention. Many different kinds of rhetorical devices are used in that portion of the message to deliver a thought that captures the hearers. Jesus used the imaginative form of parables for such purposes.
3) Begg is not separating feeling from knowledge. He is merely stating that the emphasis for the believer ought to be prioritized towards knowledge.
4) Begg isn't a hater of contemporary music as a genre.
5) Taking a small snippet of a sermon without the full context, whether it is a Hyles, Hybels, Warren, or Begg sermon, is not really fair to a preacher.
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[quote author=ALAYMAN]1) "to know", as he applied it, deals with awareness, which is based on the accurate perception of propositional truth. Knowledge ought to govern emotions, not the other way around.
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3) Begg is not separating feeling from knowledge. He is merely stating that the emphasis for the believer ought to be prioritized towards knowledge.[/quote]
Gnosticism: Going strong for 2000+ years and counting!
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3) Begg is not separating feeling from knowledge. He is merely stating that the emphasis for the believer ought to be prioritized towards knowledge.[/quote]
Gnosticism: Going strong for 2000+ years and counting!
ALAYMAN said:Recovering IFB said:That's right, Al Mohler is back from vacation, so you finally have something to talk about.
Play nice, or I'll have you cussin' up a blue streak again.
Again? all the @$!!& time!!! [admin edit...]
FWIW, Mohler is part of my commute in the morning,....
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rsc2a said:
Gnosticism: Going strong for 2000+ years and counting!
[/quote]
Obtusity and idiocy, not just for liberals!
admin said:
No man-worship here. Anytime they start to yap about predestination of the elect I tune them out.
On a more serious note, I listen to Begg every day and have for years. He most certainly is not a CCM basher, but is critical of superficial Christianity, of which CCM churns out more than their fair share.
Freudian slip?FSSL said:
He never mentioned CCM. He was trying to link scripture as the reason we feel this way. As if to be responsible for how we feel, ensure that are feelings are appropriate within scriptural guidelines. That's what I got. Not just incessantly babble about our feelings because it's not about us.I didn't see him mocking anything, whatever a countdown clock is. I think it's his attempt at humor.
3)
He's joking. Knowledge and feeling are separated in some scripture, not all.
Yes there are some good CCM songs filled with scripture. Then there are some I feel like Ive stepped into a spiritual romper room.
Again, he never mentions Christian Contemporary Music
I didn't know they had CCM way back then
Biker said:
BUT... the problem is... THAT is NOT what the passage is addressing. It was NOT about worship.
Biker and Alayman provide us with an excellent illustration of people willing to defend eisegesis when it is a popular preacher, of their persuasion.
As much as we see a bashing of fundamentalism on this forum, perhaps we need to understand that popular personalities get an "Abuse Scripture Pass." This is part of the fallen human condition.
Oh that we had Bereans today that are willing to filter EVERYTHING they hear from ANYBODY and make sure it is what the Bible teaches.
Having visited hundreds of churches these past 4 years with my kids, I keep raising the questions with my kids, "How was the sermon? Do you understand the passage better?"
Begg did NOT help us understand 2 Corinthians 5:1 better.
Biker said:Freudian slip?
Then WHAT music was he going after? minute marker 2:21 and following.
Begg looks up to God and quotes...
"I just want to praise You."
"I lift my hands and say I love You"
"You are everything to me."
There is nothing foolish in those phrases.
Biker... you don't have to become absurd just to defend Begg.