Very mixed emotions
- Thread starter Billy
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Billy said:
This simply, and sadly, reflects an attitude that is the ultimate result of believing that man is simply a highly evolved animal. We came from nowhere and we are going nowhere so 'eat drink and be merry'...
My grandmother died of Lou Gehrig's. She had it for 22 years and is one of the longest survivors. The lives she touched and her stamina through the very end were catalysts in helping members of her family, nursing staff and others know Jesus.
Those who cut this process short by suicide are self-centered. They are opening up a pandora's box of ethical and medical problems. No doctor has the right to help a patient commit suicide.
Those who cut this process short by suicide are self-centered. They are opening up a pandora's box of ethical and medical problems. No doctor has the right to help a patient commit suicide.
FSSL said:
I would add that no patient has the right to demand that his doctor kill him.
I'll pray for you guys to get pancreatic cancer so you can get back to us and impress us with how nobly and courageously you're living out your "faith."
... how is that "noble" living working out for you?
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FSSL said:
Don't you love the warm feeling you get when liberal tolerance and compassion are displayed?
FSSL said:
Directing my righteous indignation and prayers of imprecation toward the blue-nose fundies rather than smugly judging those who don't wish to be forced to endure ignominious suffering -- It is well with my soul.
Perhaps you should get a van, fill it with unsterile medical devices and put the fundies out of their misery on a secluded dirt road in Lake Orion, Michigan without any concern for their final wishes. 
FSSL said:Perhaps you should get a van, fill it with unsterile medical devices and put the fundies out of their misery on a secluded dirt road in Lake Orion, Michigan without any concern for their final wishes.
Can anyone say Dr. K's Cabin
Pancreatic cancer would be a bad example. The average pancreatic cancer patients only live 3 to 6 months. With modern hospice care most patients can be kept comfortable during that time. A condition like extreme Peripheral Neuropathy can leave a person in severe untreatable pain with a full life span. There are other forms of painful cancer have a much longer course and can result in a very painful way to die.NorrinRadd said:
sword said:
Good points. I'll adjust my prayers accordingly.
NorrinRadd said:
Don't forget to replace the 125ml flask with the 250ml one! You don't want the process to be cut short!
This type of discussion will raise some serious questions that are not black and white. My father is 80. He has had serious health issues the past 8 or 10 years and is pretty much taken care of by my mom 24/7. He has dialysis three times a week. Has had several small strokes and 'episodes' for lack of a better term.
One year ago he had a serious stroke. When you have a stroke like this and begin to recover they do swallow tests to determine whether or not you will be able to eat. He could not swallow and the doctor sat down with all of us and said that in his experience this does not come back and we would have to consider a feeding tube and going to a nursing home. My dad said, No feeding tube! He has a living will etc and the doctor said we should probably abide by his wishes. They discontinued dialysis and all meds and told us it would be a matter of 5 or 6 days. After 5 days he started to swallow again.
Now, he is home and is basically an invalid and hates living like this. Should he have chosen to hold on as long as possible no matter what? I don't think so. I would not want to live like that.
Another man who I knew was in his late 50's. I went to bible college with him. Very Godly christian man who went to mission field for 10 - 15 years and developed extreme back and spinal problems. He had to come home and pastored a little off and on but health made it impossible to work or do anything much. He was in extreme constant pain for years. Within the past year his doctor told him there was nothing more they could do and he would have to suffer with the pain or stay constantly medicated. He committed suicide. None of his family wanted to see him gone but his boys expressed relief because they knew how he suffered.
I have a lot of other scenarios I could bring up also.
One year ago he had a serious stroke. When you have a stroke like this and begin to recover they do swallow tests to determine whether or not you will be able to eat. He could not swallow and the doctor sat down with all of us and said that in his experience this does not come back and we would have to consider a feeding tube and going to a nursing home. My dad said, No feeding tube! He has a living will etc and the doctor said we should probably abide by his wishes. They discontinued dialysis and all meds and told us it would be a matter of 5 or 6 days. After 5 days he started to swallow again.
Now, he is home and is basically an invalid and hates living like this. Should he have chosen to hold on as long as possible no matter what? I don't think so. I would not want to live like that.
Another man who I knew was in his late 50's. I went to bible college with him. Very Godly christian man who went to mission field for 10 - 15 years and developed extreme back and spinal problems. He had to come home and pastored a little off and on but health made it impossible to work or do anything much. He was in extreme constant pain for years. Within the past year his doctor told him there was nothing more they could do and he would have to suffer with the pain or stay constantly medicated. He committed suicide. None of his family wanted to see him gone but his boys expressed relief because they knew how he suffered.
I have a lot of other scenarios I could bring up also.
It is a difficult question.. no doubt.
The question is whether assisted suicide should be legal.
The question is whether assisted suicide should be legal.
These issues are very complicated and can be very emotional.FSSL said:
This is a reason doctors have been taking a similar oath since the Fifth Century BC.
This is the original version of the Hippocratic Oath, in Greek and then followed by the English translation:
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?? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ????, ??????????? ??? ????????????????, ????? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? ??? ???????, ??? ?? ????? ??? ??????????????? ??? ?? ?????????? ??????? ??? ???????, ????????? ?? ??? ??????.
? ?? ?? ?????????? ? ??? ? ??????, ? ??? ???? ????????? ???? ???? ????????, ? ?? ??? ??????????????? ???, ?????????, ?????? ????????? ????? ?? ???????.
????? ??? ??? ??? ????????????? ????????, ??? ?? ?????????, ??? ?????????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?????????? ????????? ????????? ?? ??? ???? ??????: ???????????? ?? ??? ???????????, ???????? ??????.
I swear to hold my teacher in this art equal to my own parents; to make him partner in my livelihood; when he is in need of money to share mine with him; to consider his family as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they want to learn it, without fee or indenture; to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the physician?s oath, but to nobody else.
I will use treatment to help the sick according to my ability and judgment, but never with a view to injury and wrong-doing. Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course. Similarly I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion. But I will keep pure and holy both my life and my art. I will not use the knife, not even, verily, on sufferers from stone, but I will give place to such as are craftsmen therein.
Into whatsoever houses I enter, I will enter to help the sick, and I will abstain from all intentional wrong-doing and harm, especially from abusing the bodies of man or woman, bond or free. And whatsoever I shall see or hear in the course of my profession, as well as outside my profession in my intercourse with men, if it be what should not be published abroad, I will never divulge, holding such things to be holy secrets.
Now if I carry out this oath, and break it not, may I gain for ever reputation among all men for my life and for my art; but if I transgress it and forswear myself, may the opposite befall me.