Was Jacob actually wrestling with God?

[FSSL]

Genesis 32:22ff

Jacob was wrestling with God. I recently heard a person suggest that the word "wrestling" does not actually mean to physically wrestle.

Well... the root meaning of the word means "intertwine."

 

[Izdaari]

Genesis 32:22ff

Jacob was wrestling with God. I recently heard a person suggest that the word "wrestling" does not actually mean to physically wrestle.

Well... the root meaning of the word means "intertwine."

Was he wrestly with God literally or figuratively? I couldn't say. I wasn't there.

 

[Agent P]

Genesis 32:22ff

Jacob was wrestling with God. I recently heard a person suggest that the word "wrestling" does not actually mean to physically wrestle.

Well... the root meaning of the word means "intertwine."

While I'm not disputing the actual wrestling, Hosea indicates that Jacob wrestled with an angel.

 

[Ransom]

While I'm not disputing the actual wrestling, Hosea indicates that Jacob wrestled with an angel.

Sometimes it is hinted that an angel is, in fact, God. Another example would be the three men who visited Abraham: the two angels who took Lot and his family out of Sodom, and the Lord.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I believe Jacob wrestled with Hulk Hogan.  It was all fake, though. 

 

[FSSL]

Reminds me of this

 

[Izdaari]

From Jacob's physical injury, I would presume it was a physical wrestling match. Whether the "Angel of God" was an ordinary(!) angel or actually God is something we can't know for sure, though it seems Jacob thought it was God. Just speculating, I would venture that an angel would be able to give Jacob a tough wrestling match, whereas God would just win, no question about it, unless He choose not to.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

From Jacob's physical injury, I would presume it was a physical wrestling match. Whether the "Angel of God" was an ordinary(!) angel or actually God is something we can't know for sure, though it seems Jacob thought it was God. Just speculating, I would venture that an angel would be able to give Jacob a tough wrestling match, whereas God would just win, no question about it, unless He choose not to.

Maybe it's one of those things like getting sued by a corporation.  The corporation is the plaintiff in the lawsuit, but in practice, you wrestle with the lawyer(s).

 

[Izdaari]

From Jacob's physical injury, I would presume it was a physical wrestling match. Whether the "Angel of God" was an ordinary(!) angel or actually God is something we can't know for sure, though it seems Jacob thought it was God. Just speculating, I would venture that an angel would be able to give Jacob a tough wrestling match, whereas God would just win, no question about it, unless He choose not to.

Maybe it's one of those things like getting sued by a corporation.  The corporation is the plaintiff in the lawsuit, but in practice, you wrestle with the lawyer(s).

LOL, right!

 

[praise_yeshua]

Psa 22:14  I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax; it is melted within my breast;

The prophecy/vision given to Jacob was an allegory to the suffering of Christ.

Jacob lived an allegorical life to the work of God in Christ Jesus. His life pictured the choice of the second Adam. The servant to Esau, the first born.... yet preferred over his brother. Its pictured in the choice of Ephram over Manasseh.

Heb 11:21  By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

Rom 9:7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9  For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10  And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11  (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Rom 9:12  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Psa 22:14  I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax; it is melted within my breast;

The prophecy/vision given to Jacob was an allegory to the suffering of Christ.

Jacob lived an allegorical life to the work of God in Christ Jesus. His life pictured the choice of the second Adam. The servant to Esau, the first born.... yet preferred over his brother. Its pictured in the choice of Ephram over Manasseh.

Heb 11:21  By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

Rom 9:7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9  For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10  And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11  (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Rom 9:12  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Ever wonder why God so loved such seedy characters, like Jacob and to some degree even David (and others)? 

Maybe it demonstrates that God doesn't love you because you're such a "good" person who dresses up for church every Sunday and never drinks alcohol or watch anything but a G-rated movie. 

Or it could be something else. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

Psa 22:14  I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax; it is melted within my breast;

The prophecy/vision given to Jacob was an allegory to the suffering of Christ.

Jacob lived an allegorical life to the work of God in Christ Jesus. His life pictured the choice of the second Adam. The servant to Esau, the first born.... yet preferred over his brother. Its pictured in the choice of Ephram over Manasseh.

Heb 11:21  By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

Rom 9:7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9  For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10  And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11  (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Rom 9:12  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Ever wonder why God so loved such seedy characters, like Jacob and to some degree even David (and others)? 

Maybe it demonstrates that God doesn't love you because you're such a "good" person who dresses up for church every Sunday and never drinks alcohol or watch anything but a G-rated movie. 

Or it could be something else.

Jacob being a "deceiver" is overplayed. It was God's good pleasure to work in Jacob. Esau sold his birthright for a single meal.

Don't get so tangled in the allegory that you fail to recognize that Esau caused his own problem.

 

[Bob H]

Yes

 

[bgwilkinson]

I believe it was God Himself in a human body just as He was in a human body when He eat a meal with Abraham and two angles.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Psa 22:14  I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax; it is melted within my breast;

The prophecy/vision given to Jacob was an allegory to the suffering of Christ.

Jacob lived an allegorical life to the work of God in Christ Jesus. His life pictured the choice of the second Adam. The servant to Esau, the first born.... yet preferred over his brother. Its pictured in the choice of Ephram over Manasseh.

Heb 11:21  By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

Rom 9:7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9  For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10  And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11  (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Rom 9:12  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Ever wonder why God so loved such seedy characters, like Jacob and to some degree even David (and others)? 

Maybe it demonstrates that God doesn't love you because you're such a "good" person who dresses up for church every Sunday and never drinks alcohol or watch anything but a G-rated movie. 

Or it could be something else.

Well God loves both you and me, with our wicked hearts and all.

God loves us because of who he is. God is love. He loves everybody.

 

[FSSL]

Well God loves both you and me, with our wicked hearts and all.
God loves us because of who he is. God is love. He loves everybody.

People's standards have really become a problem for Tomato.  I can agree that sanctification does not come through external manipulation. Tomato is now arguing for a sanctification that never impacts a person's behavior.

 

[subllibrm]

I believe Jacob wrestled with Hulk Hogan.  It was all fake, though.

but they didn;t have metal folding chairs back then.....  :-\...... what would they have hit each other over the head with?.......  ???

Large stones.

Oh, a pillow fight!

 

[Alter2Ego]

While I'm not disputing the actual wrestling, Hosea indicates that Jacob wrestled with an angel.

Sometimes it is hinted that an angel is, in fact, God. Another example would be the three men who visited Abraham: the two angels who took Lot and his family out of Sodom, and the Lord.

Ransom:

In the Biblical account of the three individuals who appeared to Abraham at Genesis 18, all three  were angels.

The Bible's account referred to the one angel who stayed behind and conversed with Abraham as "God" or "Jehovah"  for the simple reason that the particular angel was God's mouth piece at that point in time.


Alter2Ego

 

[Ransom]

In the Biblical account of the three individuals who appeared to Abraham at Genesis 18, all three  were angels.

The Bible's account referred to the one angel who stayed behind and conversed with Abraham as "God" or "Jehovah"  for the simple reason that the particular angel was God's mouth piece at that point in time.

That's an interpretive issue, not something that van be factually established through exegesis of the text. Believing the third man was a theophany does no harm to the understanding of the story.

 

[Agent P]

I believe Jacob wrestled with Hulk Hogan.  It was all fake, though.

I did a sermon on that passage for Homiletics class in seminary, going off tropes in professional wrestling as illustrations.  (ex.  Jacob was what they call in wrestling a "Heel").