Went to a Reformed Baptist Church over the weekend

[ALAYMAN]

I'm still tryin' to help ALAYBOY to find some connection to church through his freshman college assimilation. We had went to the campus church together as a family a couple of months ago that was filled to the brim with college-age people equally seeking and trying to find themselves in this transitional phase of life. I reported on that through another thread at the time, noting that he didn't like the contemporary music (which wasn't anything that I had done to influence his views.... he is FAR from someone who only listens to sacred music/hymns in his personal life). The Reformed Baptist Church we attended this past weekend was culturally and theologically more conservative (which I don't think ALAYBOY cares about one way or another), but the music was almost equally "contemporary" as the UC Campus church. The Reformed Baptist church was certainly cut from a specific demographic cloth (namely young families, as there was only one couple there that was about my age or older in a congregation of 100+). It had numerous trappings of what I expected from a reformed church; sovereignty emphasized, liturgical, singing the Psalms, etc. In addition to those expectations however, yet not really unpredictable at all, the entire sermon was crafted around a the subject we have been discussing here on the FFF quite a bit lately (as I'm sure is the case in MANY evangelical/fundamental corners of Christendom).... that being the nature of the relationship of current events in Israel as relating to the Church and prophesy. Of course I got an earful of anti-premillenial theology... but the pastor handled himself with delicate appropriateness towards the enemy amongst them and I was able to hold my tongue long enough to not be shown the door , but I can at least say that I witnessed 1st-hand the anti-semitism from amillenialists rather than just via the cyberspace of keyboards, lol. J/K...don't taze me bros!

 

[Baptist Renegade]

I'm still tryin' to help ALAYBOY to find some connection to church through his freshman college assimilation. We had went to the campus church together as a family a couple of months ago that was filled to the brim with college-age people equally seeking and trying to find themselves in this transitional phase of life. I reported on that through another thread at the time, noting that he didn't like the contemporary music (which wasn't anything that I had done to influence his views.... he is FAR from someone who only listens to sacred music/hymns in his personal life). The Reformed Baptist Church we attended this past weekend was culturally and theologically more conservative (which I don't think ALAYBOY cares about one way or another), but the music was almost equally "contemporary" as the UC Campus church. The Reformed Baptist church was certainly cut from a specific demographic cloth (namely young families, as there was only one couple there that was about my age or older in a congregation of 100+). It had numerous trappings of what I expected from a reformed church; sovereignty emphasized, liturgical, singing the Psalms, etc. In addition to those expectations however, yet not really unpredictable at all, the entire sermon was crafted around a the subject we have been discussing here on the FFF quite a bit lately (as I'm sure is the case in MANY evangelical/fundamental corners of Christendom).... that being the nature of the relationship of current events in Israel as relating to the Church and prophesy. Of course I got an earful of anti-premillenial theology... but the pastor handled himself with delicate appropriateness towards the enemy amongst them and I was able to hold my tongue long enough to not be shown the door , but I can at least say that I witnessed 1st-hand the anti-semitism from amillenialists rather than just via the cyberspace of keyboards, lol. J/K...don't taze me bros!

There are many reasons I am not a full on "1689 Reformed Baptist." First of all, they tend to be all about Calvinism and Reformed theology which I really try not to get myself too focused upon. I consider myself "Calvinistic" but not Reformed or at least not in the 1689/WCF/Heidelberg/Belgic Confession sense that a Reformed congregation would strictly adhere to and would look down their noses at some "poseur" Calvie as myself! I am more of a BFM 2000 kind of guy I guess so probably more theologically akin to Al Mohler, Steve Lawson, and John MacArthur? Secondly, they are a too stiff and stuffy for my taste. They do not seem legalistic or at least not judgmental legalistic like a "BoJo" or "IFBx" congregation. I do like the theological richness of the hymns they often sing and if they use a Psalter, all the better, but I think they could maybe throw in a guitar and cajon and smile a little more and actually enjoy the fact that they are elect in Christ! Finally, I have run into the anti-Semitic mindset myself to where they don't even recognize modern day Israel as being legitimate Jews (ethnically or spiritually). Would they consider such to be of the "Synagogue of Satan?" (Reve 2:9; 3:9).

 

[abcaines]

The Reformed Baptist church was certainly cut from a specific demographic cloth (namely young families, as there was only one couple there that was about my age or older in a congregation of 100+). It had numerous trappings of what I expected from a reformed church; sovereignty emphasized, liturgical, singing the Psalms, etc.

Just that alone would raise questions with me. Not so much in their beliefs, but in their handling of the scriptures. Having been nourished by mostly expository teaching for the past 20+ years, I would be wary of such a church's tendencies to preach pet doctrines.

Time is running out... I'll have to flesh this out later.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Just that alone would raise questions with me. Not so much in their beliefs, but in their handling of the scriptures. Having been nourished by mostly expository teaching for the past 20+ years, I would be wary of such a church's tendencies to preach pet doctrines.

Time is running out... I'll have to flesh this out later.

Most Reformed Churches seem to be focused upon expository teaching and preaching. They may have "Liturgical" stuff like reading of scriptures, singing from the psalter, and some may even recite the Nicene Creed or something to this effect but this does not take away from their bible-based teaching and preaching. My objection would be that they would likely look at everything through a Reformed lens but I think this is something we can all be guilty of.

 

[abcaines]

Most Reformed Churches seem to be focused upon expository teaching and preaching. They may have "Liturgical" stuff like reading of scriptures, singing from the psalter, and some may even recite the Nicene Creed or something to this effect but this does not take away from their bible-based teaching and preaching. My objection would be that they would likely look at everything through a Reformed lens but I think this is something we can all be guilty of.

Expository teaching doesn't guarantee pet doctrines won't bleed through. You're objection is the same as mine and that is how I was going to flesh out what I was saying in my previous post.

I can totally relate to what you said, which saved me a bunch of typing.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Expository teaching doesn't guarantee pet doctrines won't bleed through.

Quite true! I experienced this first-hand with the "Model IFB Church" I used to attend back in the '90s! The very well-known pastor of this Church claims to be preaching expositorily through books of the Bible but his personal agenda comes through loud and clear which can be a distraction for those who simply wish to have the word of God taught in its pure, unvarnished form!

Some of the best expository teaching and preaching I have ever heard have been from Calvary Chapel pastors!

 

[abcaines]

I reported on that through another thread at the time, noting that he didn't like the contemporary music (which wasn't anything that I had done to influence his views.... he is FAR from someone who only listens to sacred music/hymns in his personal life).

What music style does he like? I mean given your musical tastes being similar to mine, I'd expect he'd be something of a rocker. Was he raised in exclusively traditional church music services?

During my few years on the anti-rock-n-roll bandwagon, my old secular tastes we're a guilty pleasure, but I genuinely despised CCM. Of course, CCM in the 80s didn't have much to offer other than feeble attempts to sound like established secular bands. Sorta like vegans trying to imitate meat. It wasn't until the 90s that CCM finally began to acquire its own sound.

 

[Bob H]

Speaking of being Reformed I have a little story to tell . A few yrs back we had a article here on beer, bible study and calvinism. I don't remember anything about but it came to mind a short time ago. I have many books {way to many but I can't help it} and I like to use license plates and especially the thin ones that have sport teams and/or advertisements on them for book ends. You fold them in the middle and you have a book end. Don't ask me whyyyy, I just dooooo! It was most likely fore-ordained. Anyways, I went to the box/bin store a week or two back. Don't ask me to explain about the store cause I can't. The first day the put the boxes and stuff out and everything is 7 bucks and every day after it the price goes down. On the 6th day everything a buck so as a good pollock I go on dollar day. I came across a Schlitz beer sign. It's the same length as a license plate only 2 inches wider. It was thin and easy to bend. And that's when that article on beer, bible study and calvinism came to my mind. So I got thinking, which sometimes isn't a smart for me to do, and decided to get it and fold it and use it in my book shelf where my books on reformed theology are. Then I got thinking again and decided I have a book ""Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth---A Critique of dispensationalism by John Gerstner, and though it isn't necessarily on calvinism, I'm gonna stick it first next to the beer sign cause he must of been snockered when he wrote it. Then I come across another sign which had a pair of hands sticking out of the water and the top of the sign said"swim at your own risk" and the bottom of the sign said "lifegaurd on beer break" so I figured he must of been to one of them bible studies {that thinking thing again} So I got that one also. OBTW, later on at the goodwill store i picked up a genuine leather Reformation study bible for a dollar but I'll stick it in my study bible shelf and not where the beer sign is....... Guys, this just a snipet in a day of the exciting life and times of Bob the retired tire builder.

Ok , now return back to the topic.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

It wasn't until the 90s that CCM finally began to acquire its own sound.

It seemed like CCM was getting really good with groups like Mercy Me, Casting Crowns, Third Day, Delirious, Barlow Girl, and Jars of Clay then everything started being about "Worship" and things really got wonky! I enjoyed much of the music from these above bands but I never thought of any of it as "Church" music or anything I would use in a worship service.

 

[abcaines]

It seemed like CCM was getting really good with groups like Mercy Me, Casting Crowns, Third Day, Delirious, Barlow Girl, and Jars of Clay then everything started being about "Worship" and things really got wonky! I enjoyed much of the music from these above bands but I never thought of any of it as "Church" music or anything I would use in a worship service.

Yup many of the bands I was thinking about. I especially loved Third Day. Their worship album, Offerings was the best of both: reverent worship and an aggressive sound.

Worship got wonky when repetitive chants began replacing solid heartfelt adoration.

Our church plays many of the "Worship" classics by Jeremy Camp, Brooke Ligerwood, etc... But the ones our worship team play carry solid lyrics and some, like 10,000 Reasons, I would classify as hymns of the old order.

I would stand our worship team up with the best ones out there. Our keyboardist has a voice that is low for a female voice but is strong and smooth. She is my favorite female vocalist. Her husband is a professional bass player and teaches jazz bass at WSU. We just took on a lead guitarist who plays a jazzy smooth Gibson. The head of the team keeps acoustic rhythm while the guy on the cajon keeps an impeccable beat. Just sayin'.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

I'm still tryin' to help ALAYBOY to find some connection to church through his freshman college assimilation.

Just out of curiosity, is Alayboy actively seeking your assistance in this matter or are you just voluntarily helping his “college assimilation”?

 

[ALAYMAN]

What music style does he like?

Secular: Anime
Religious: Hymns

But I think his heavy emphasis/focus on the music aspect of church is either misplaced focus or a convenient smokescreen to avoid finding a good fit.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Speaking of being Reformed I have a little story to tell . A few yrs back we had a article here on beer, bible study and calvinism. I don't remember anything about but it came to mind a short time ago. I have many books {way to many but I can't help it} and I like to use license plates and especially the thin ones that have sport teams and/or advertisements on them for book ends. You fold them in the middle and you have a book end. Don't ask me whyyyy, I just dooooo! It was most likely fore-ordained. Anyways, I went to the box/bin store a week or two back. Don't ask me to explain about the store cause I can't. The first day the put the boxes and stuff out and everything is 7 bucks and every day after it the price goes down. On the 6th day everything a buck so as a good pollock I go on dollar day. I came across a Schlitz beer sign. It's the same length as a license plate only 2 inches wider. It was thin and easy to bend. And that's when that article on beer, bible study and calvinism came to my mind. So I got thinking, which sometimes isn't a smart for me to do, and decided to get it and fold it and use it in my book shelf where my books on reformed theology are. Then I got thinking again and decided I have a book ""Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth---A Critique of dispensationalism by John Gerstner, and though it isn't necessarily on calvinism, I'm gonna stick it first next to the beer sign cause he must of been snockered when he wrote it. Then I come across another sign which had a pair of hands sticking out of the water and the top of the sign said"swim at your own risk" and the bottom of the sign said "lifegaurd on beer break" so I figured he must of been to one of them bible studies {that thinking thing again} So I got that one also. OBTW, later on at the goodwill store i picked up a genuine leather Reformation study bible for a dollar but I'll stick it in my study bible shelf and not where the beer sign is....... Guys, this just a snipet in a day of the exciting life and times of Bob the retired tire builder.

Ok , now return back to the topic.

Literally laughed out loud three times reading that Bob , which ironically appears to be the number of times in a row TTUN is gonna own the Bucks.

By the way, I think the beer thread you’re referring to was one about The Young Restless and Reformed movement.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Just out of curiosity, is Alayboy actively seeking your assistance in this matter or are you just voluntarily helping his “college assimilation”?

The latter. Why?

 

[ALAYMAN]

By the way, regarding the sermon content, yes, it was expository, and it was very good. The people were very friendly and I could probably fit in there if there was no conservative independent Baptist Church nearby, and they would tolerate a non-Calvie. The one thing that was really odd to me was that they took the Lord’s supper every week, and I wondered if that was also common amongst reformed types, because I had not heard that, especially among Baptists.

 

[aleshanee]

By the way, regarding the sermon content, yes, it was expository, and it was very good. The people were very friendly and I could probably fit in there if there was no conservative independent Baptist Church nearby, and they would tolerate a Calvie. The one thing that was really odd to me was that they took the Lord supper every week, and I wondered if that was also common amongst performed types, because I had not heard that, especially among Baptists.

but was there any mention of personal evangelism?.... outreach ministries?.... or evidence that they are practiced there?.... .... ..

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

The latter. Why?

Just curious. I would have felt like my parents were being intrusive and not “cutting the apron strings” at that age, but then again, I didn’t have the best relationship with them. Glad you’re able to pull that off.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Just curious. I would have felt like my parents were being intrusive and not “cutting the apron strings” at that age, but then again, I didn’t have the best relationship with them. Glad you’re able to pull that off.

I appreciate your perspective. Yeah, it’s a tightrope fer sure. I’m pretty old school and want nothing more than to cut those strings, but the spiritual guidance of a son compels me to take a little more hands-on approach here. That dynamic is extremely compounded by his fairly severe aversion to social interaction in general.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

but was there any mention of personal evangelism?.... outreach ministries?.... or evidence that they are practiced there?.... .... ..

Yeah, Lay Dude! How many buses were they running, how many walked the aisle, and how many were baptized?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Yeah, Lay Dude! How many buses were they running, how many walked the aisle, and how many were baptized?

None, but I tried to talk to them about about naming their foyer Finney's Way. Does that count for anything?