T
Tim
Guest
What are the signs a pastor is turning legalistic?
Signs a Pastor is Turning Legalistic...
...if he won't let you do anything you want at any time in any place in any way, and if he in any way reproves, rebukes, or scolds you about your behavior or lack of behavior - why then, clearly, he is a legalist. Everybody knows his job is just to help people accomplish whatever their life goals are, and to be interesting when he discusses the Bible in a carefully generic, specific absent way.
Yep. I think that about covers it for this generation.
<gag>
...if he won't let you do anything you want at any time in any place in any way, and if he in any way reproves, rebukes, or scolds you about your behavior or lack of behavior - why then, clearly, he is a legalist. Everybody knows his job is just to help people accomplish whatever their life goals are, and to be interesting when he discusses the Bible in a carefully generic, specific absent way.
Yep. I think that about covers it for this generation.
<gag>
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Tim, you seem to be the one who is constantly adrift. Are you sure that it isn't you that is changing? Even if he is moving to a different persepective than what he once had, do you abandon your wife or children when they go through rough patches and changes?
O
OnlyGodisGood7
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Paul said if someone proclaims another message then they are accursed.
Andrew ChiefofSinners Bain
Boynton Beach, FL
pls add me as a friend.... http://Facebook.com/BainAndrew
onlyGodisgood7 at gmail.com
____________________
1 Thessalonians 2:1-2 So, friends, it’s obvious that our visit to you was no waste of time. We had just been given rough treatment in Philippi, as you know, but that didn’t slow us down. We were sure of ourselves in God, and went right ahead and said our piece, presenting God’s Message to you, defiant of the opposition. 3-5 God tested us thoroughly to make sure we were qualified to be trusted with this Message. Be assured that when we speak to you we’re not after crowd approval—only God approval. Since we’ve been put through that battery of tests, you’re guaranteed that both we and the Message are free of error, mixed motives, or hidden agendas. We never used words to butter you up. No one knows that better than you. And God knows we never used words as a smoke screen to take advantage of you. 6-8 Even though we had some standing as Christ’s apostles, we never threw our weight around or tried to come across as important, with you or anyone else. We weren’t aloof with you. We took you just as you were. We were never patronizing, never condescending, but we cared for you the way a mother cares for her children. We loved you dearly. Not content to just pass on the Message, we wanted to give you our hearts. And we did. 9-12 You remember us in those days, friends, working our fingers to the bone, up half the night, moonlighting so you wouldn’t have the burden of supporting us while we proclaimed God’s Message to you. You saw with your own eyes how discreet and courteous we were among you, with keen sensitivity to you as fellow believers. And God knows we weren’t freeloaders! You experienced it all firsthand. With each of you we were like a father with his child, holding your hand, whispering encouragement, showing you step-by-step how to live well before God, who called us into his own kingdom, into this delightful life. 13 And now we look back on all this and thank God, an artesian well of thanks! When you got the Message of God we preached, you didn’t pass it off as just one more human opinion, but you took it to heart as God’s true word to you, which it is, God himself at work in you believers! 14-16 Friends, do you realize that you followed in the exact footsteps of the churches of God in Judea, those who were the first to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ? You got the same bad treatment from your countrymen as they did from theirs, the Jews who killed the Master Jesus (to say nothing of the prophets) and followed it up by running us out of town. They make themselves offensive to God and everyone else by trying to keep us from telling people who’ve never heard of our God how to be saved. They’ve made a career of opposing God, and have gotten mighty good at it. But God is fed up, ready to put an end to it. 17-20 Do you have any idea how very homesick we became for you, dear friends? Even though it hadn’t been that long and it was only our bodies that were separated from you, not our hearts, we tried our very best to get back to see you. You can’t imagine how much we missed you! I, Paul, tried over and over to get back, but Satan stymied us each time. Who do you think we’re going to be proud of when our Master Jesus appears if it’s not you? You’re our pride and joy! [The Message (MSG) Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson]
Andrew ChiefofSinners Bain
Boynton Beach, FL
pls add me as a friend.... http://Facebook.com/BainAndrew
onlyGodisgood7 at gmail.com
____________________
1 Thessalonians 2:1-2 So, friends, it’s obvious that our visit to you was no waste of time. We had just been given rough treatment in Philippi, as you know, but that didn’t slow us down. We were sure of ourselves in God, and went right ahead and said our piece, presenting God’s Message to you, defiant of the opposition. 3-5 God tested us thoroughly to make sure we were qualified to be trusted with this Message. Be assured that when we speak to you we’re not after crowd approval—only God approval. Since we’ve been put through that battery of tests, you’re guaranteed that both we and the Message are free of error, mixed motives, or hidden agendas. We never used words to butter you up. No one knows that better than you. And God knows we never used words as a smoke screen to take advantage of you. 6-8 Even though we had some standing as Christ’s apostles, we never threw our weight around or tried to come across as important, with you or anyone else. We weren’t aloof with you. We took you just as you were. We were never patronizing, never condescending, but we cared for you the way a mother cares for her children. We loved you dearly. Not content to just pass on the Message, we wanted to give you our hearts. And we did. 9-12 You remember us in those days, friends, working our fingers to the bone, up half the night, moonlighting so you wouldn’t have the burden of supporting us while we proclaimed God’s Message to you. You saw with your own eyes how discreet and courteous we were among you, with keen sensitivity to you as fellow believers. And God knows we weren’t freeloaders! You experienced it all firsthand. With each of you we were like a father with his child, holding your hand, whispering encouragement, showing you step-by-step how to live well before God, who called us into his own kingdom, into this delightful life. 13 And now we look back on all this and thank God, an artesian well of thanks! When you got the Message of God we preached, you didn’t pass it off as just one more human opinion, but you took it to heart as God’s true word to you, which it is, God himself at work in you believers! 14-16 Friends, do you realize that you followed in the exact footsteps of the churches of God in Judea, those who were the first to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ? You got the same bad treatment from your countrymen as they did from theirs, the Jews who killed the Master Jesus (to say nothing of the prophets) and followed it up by running us out of town. They make themselves offensive to God and everyone else by trying to keep us from telling people who’ve never heard of our God how to be saved. They’ve made a career of opposing God, and have gotten mighty good at it. But God is fed up, ready to put an end to it. 17-20 Do you have any idea how very homesick we became for you, dear friends? Even though it hadn’t been that long and it was only our bodies that were separated from you, not our hearts, we tried our very best to get back to see you. You can’t imagine how much we missed you! I, Paul, tried over and over to get back, but Satan stymied us each time. Who do you think we’re going to be proud of when our Master Jesus appears if it’s not you? You’re our pride and joy! [The Message (MSG) Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson]
T
Tim
Guest
ALAYMAN said:
Well, when a pastor says he isn't concerned about tithing and then changes and says those who don't tithe are robbing God ... you tell me who changed?
Though ... I erased my opening thread and will back off the personal aspect of my question ....
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When he starts thinking the hymn "Blest be the Tie that Binds" is about a dress code for church.
Tim said:
When the focus is on the outward and not the heart.
When the focus is on what you do for Christ and not who you are in Christ.
When the focus is on looking at others and not at yourself.
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Tim said:
Leaving a church ought to be serious business, not to be done on a whim. No church will have everything in total agreement with you (or any and every other member). I agree that ultimately a person might choose to leave a church if the grace of God is dwarfed by legalistic/moralistic teaching, but if the pastor is a humble servant then he may be approachable, and if done so in the right spirit, iron might sharpen iron.
C
christundivided
Guest
Mathew Ward said:
Ever heard the term "multi-tasking". Certainly one should come before the other..... but there is nothing wrong with ANY of them. I've found that most people who like to "trumpet" such things.... often are themselves.... lacking in the faith.
T
Tim
Guest
ALAYMAN said:
In all honesty, leaving is the last thing on our mind.
christundivided said:
My experience is those that mutli-task such things are working out their sanctification and are in performance based Christianity. Their faith isn't in God but in what they do. Their knowledge isn't in who God is but in what they do. Their spirituality is a list of do's and don'ts not reliance on the Spirit of God.
Tim said:
To me this is one of those questions that can mean something different to a lot of different people. When a bunch of different people from different church backgrounds talk about legalism there will be a bunch of different definitions of the word. Much like the word 'Calvinism'. There are a ton of different definitions for that word.
Explain your definition of legalism.
T
Tim
Guest
BALAAM said:
emphasis on discipline, my-way or the high-way, singular leadership for starters.
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If the pastor preaches "you are not right with God if____________________," and he fills in the blank with
anything other than "you're not a born again Christian".
Pastoring by guilting the congregation, the body of Christ.
anything other than "you're not a born again Christian".
Pastoring by guilting the congregation, the body of Christ.
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I disagree. Now, I generally agree with the thought that guilt is not the way to pastor, especially to push your own agenda, butbgwilkinson said:
Preaching your not right with God if:
Your not a regular witness
Your have unrepented and unconfessed sin in your lives
You have wicked practices in your life like pornography, immorality etc
You have malice in your heart towards another
And a litany of other things is not Pastoring by guilting, it's pastoring.